newbie here (easy on the flames, please)

Are the KBB (kbb.com) values pretty reliable? I'm in the midst of a deal with a Lexus dealer for buying a 2004 C320 Sport Sedan (16K mileage). I'm willing to pay $100 over KBB Trade-In value (not retail nor private party). Is it fair enough?

 

sounds good. Also check out www.edmunds.com the values they give are closer to real market value. Also are you trading anything in on this?

 

That's a fantastic deal, heck, he can bring that car to a Manheim dealer auction and get more for it. I find Edmunds and Nada to be all over the place on value and most dealers use KBB or Manheim report prices, I've never heard of any using Edmunds, a few use Nada because the prices are inflated, makes it easier to sell a used car. I sold my Honda a few days ago for KBB trade-in, he showed me Edmunds was cheaper, I showed him Nada was higher, besides, how can you put a commodity price on a used car, each is different, for example, have you pulled a carfax report to see if it's been in an accident, had the odometer rolled back, is it a lemon? Can you tell if it's been repainted, had any flood damage, fire? I like to take used cars to a body shop for a quick inspection, they can put the car on the lift and tell within minutes if the car has been molested. I can deal with mechanical problems because the warranty covers that, but you can never fix the frame or body as perfect as new.

 

you are correct however the reason I bring up edmunds is because of the new games the dealers are trying to play. Yes they still use KBB but they don't stick to it. I don't know about else where but in the bay area they like to say the KBB value is XX amount but we will give you market value for your car which a lot of times is about 2K less than KBB trade in. If you look at Edmunds you'll notice that thier values are about 2K less than KBB or therefor closer to market value. The same dealers however turn around and try to sell the used car for full KBB value which according to them would be more than the market value. It's all a game when you're dealing with used cars and people need to know the games they are playing. This one was a new one for me. KBB is still the best source but it's only good if the dealer sticks to those prices. I saw for myself on the dealers computer what my car was worth and then he shot me a price 2K less than that. Sounds like this is a great deal though.

 

What's their asking price for the '04 C320 SS?

I am in the market for a '04 C230 SS (liked the C230SS loaner )and found all dealer's asking price are significantly higher than the trade-in value of the same car.

For instance, I was looking at a '04 C230 SS with 25k miles, automatic with CD-Changer and rear shade.

Dealer Asking Price: $24,900
Retail Value: $26,365
Private Party Value: $22,995 (Excellent)
Trade-in Value: $19,725 (Excellent)

That's $6,640 difference between retail vs. trade-in and $5,175 difference between Dealer vs. trade-in!!!!

They really let you bargain that much $$ off?

 

Every dealer knows that people want a good deal on a car, new or used. What a lot of dealers do is make you think you got a good deal. It's not a question of will you get screwed from a dealer it's a matter of how much are you going to let them screw you. They need to make money just like everyone else so you can't fault them for that. What I don't like is when dealers put a dealer mark up on a car and try to make it look like they are giving you a deal when they sell it to you for full retail. Yes there is that much of a difference between trade in and retail but that's why there is always room to work on the price. I have never paid retail for any vehicle i've owned and I'm on #11 now. It's all a numbers game, don't let them confuse you. Do your research so you can beat them at thier own game. Most car salesman are clueless and it's easy to catch them when they thow out thier BS lines. If you're confused about what they are saying just keep having them explain it until you do understand and never give them an answer right away. When I bought the C230, the sales manager hooked me up real nice and I still said I'd get back to him tomorrow. He looked shocked but understood.

 

From past experience, I think 3/4 of used car dealers in Wisconsin use Black Book as a pricing guide. Of the dealers around town here that I've been too, the local MB, Lexus, Acura, Jaquar, Volvo, Mazda, Nissan, Honda, BMW dealers all used Black Book. Whenever I mentioned Edmunds, NADA, KBB, they just gave me a smile and try to brush it off. My sales agent whom I bought my car from gave me a week-old black book. He said it's printed out weekly so every week they all get a new copy. It may vary between states on which pricing guide dealers used, but for sure, within Wisconsin.....Black Book is the book.

 

in new jersy and new york they use a book called galves it is lower then kbb and nada
nada is used by banks for loans in other words when you buy a car if you have excellent credit they cant sell you the car for 30% aprox over nada depending on the credit
but the best way to look that you r getting a fair deal is to buy under edmonds price then you know you r paying under the avg.

 

i check both kbb and edmunds.

 

Just done some car shopping and every salesmen looked at me like I was from Mars when I offered them slightly above the Blue Book's trade-in value.......I am not good at this bargaining game.

 

you have to work at it. The problem is you don't know what they paid for the car. You know what trade in is but there are always deals going on and you may have offered them what they paid for the car. A good goal in my opinion is to shoot for somewhere between retail and private party and not pay anymore than than. It might not be easy and it could take a lot of work. For one of my cars I put down a refundable deposit on a monday morning and went back 30min before closing every night until I got the car on thursday. I kept them late every night cause they kept trying to screw me over. I got what I wanted and sometimes it just doesn't work out. My new mercedes was the easiest it's ever been for me. I went in on a monday night an hour before close. They were short handed that night and the sales guy felt bad. After awhile we sat in the showroom and just chatted about all the cars i was looking at getting and what I liked about them. Told him the the C230 was on of my top choices though. Turns out the sales guy was really the sales manager and just happened to be the owners son. He offered me a deal that made me speechless. He gave me the car for 1500 under invoice. Showed me all the paperwork to show me he was for real. Turns out he's just an awesome guy that wanted to help me out. I love mercedes and I plan to own more. My family and I i'm sure will give him a lot of business because of how he treated me. I could have tried my best at all the other dealers and I'm sure the best I could have gotten would be invoice on the car for an 05. Sometimes luck helps a lot. Cali sucks when it comes to trading in cars because there are so many cars already so I ended up just keeping my GTI so I can commute that most of the time to keep the miles down on the benz since I commute 70-80 miles a day right now.

 

just curious, what dealership in the area did you go to? ive had experience with MB of Pleasanton, Stead in WC, Downtown Oakland, and Beshoff. I got my car originally from Fletcher Jones in Newport Beach, but when my friend was looking for a CLK500, i felt that the service in all 4 dealerships was pretty whack.

 

I went to the one in Pleasanton.....if you are ever interested I'll introduce you to the owners son and he'll take care of you.

 

not to say that its worth the price, but you do get a Starmarked warranty as well.

 

Anything at or around trade in value from the dealership is fair. Dealers actually do not purchase their vehicles at trade in values, maybe 5-10% under but with it's worth it since you know they've looked it over and changed out all the parts that needs to be changed before they resell it to the public saving you a couple hundred dollars at least. It's not often they will sell it to you at kbb trade in value. If you can get it, it's a good deal, even if it's not starmarked. It should still have the 4yr/50K manufacturers warranty but I strongly recommend that you get the extended warranty.

 

Surprisingly dealers pay way more than KBB trade-in at a Manheim dealer auction. So for example, say KBB trade-in is 20K and the dealer will likely offer you $18K, he then loads the car up and takes it to the nearest Manheim auction where he'll get $22K selling it to another dealer, quick $4k profit, no customer hassles. So what I don't understand is why would he sell the car to a customer for KBB trade-in when he can just dump it at the next auction for much more unless there's more to the story. If you have a car to trade in, never, ever accept KBB trade-in, just find a used car dealer that will sell it at auction from you for a fee, usually $200 and get more than KBB trade-in for it, even after the auction fee and the dealer's fee. What I usually do with newer more expensive cars is call 3-4 dealers, tell them what the deal is, KBB trade-in or nothing and you'll get one that bites, afterall, he can still dump it at auction for more.

 

thanks for all the responses. i pursued and got the car. this is my first benz and i just feel so good with it. it was a 2004 but was put in service in Oct-2003 (so about 8K per year from the previous owner). this means i only have 2 more years of factory warranty (or 34K miles).

is it worth considering the extended warranty at this time? (should this be a separate post?).

btw, i'm glad to find this forum. i've learned a lot of stuff for the W203. thanks.

 

Good job. How much were they asking and how much did you get the C320 for?

I went to a dealer today and they only want to give me $300 off their asking price which is inline with KBB retail price.

 

I guess I approach the car price issue differently then most. I buy my cars from an auto broker. I tell him what I want and he finds it (typically at an auction). We discuss a range of what it could cost, and then, when he finds a particular car, I tell him what I'll pay. If it sells too high for him to sell it to me for that, I'm still shopping. If it sells low enough that he makes more profit than he was willing to accept, good for him. It's a "win-win" situation. For example, I paid $16,000 3 weeks ago for my 2002 C230K Coupe with less than 41000 miles. Did I grossly overpay by any of your estimations?

 

what final price did you buy it at inc. taxes and dealer fee's always talk out the door number
remember if a dealer lets you walk out it is because they can't go any lower they will never let you leave if they can sell you the car at the price you want

 

Not always true. There are still a lot of sales people that think that because you're young that you don't have money and can't afford certain cars. A few years back I was looking at a used M3 and when I asked the sales guy how much they were asking for it he replied, "Probably more than you can afford". I just told him that I guess I'd spend my money elsewhere since he wasn't interested in it. He had a shocked, oh ****, look on his face.

I have never used a broker though, do you only use them when looking for a used car or can you use them for new cars as well?

 

That's just over the KBB private party price or about what you could have gotten by shopping the car yourself. It's a judgement call, do you trust this guy more than you trust your own judgement is what it comes down to. I like to be able to check out the car personaly, test drive it and then buy if it meets my picky needs but then some people are less picky than me. BTW, sold my 2002 C230 about 18 months ago for $15,800 with 38K miles and one year left on factory warranty and it took me 3 months to sell it.

 

i paid 28.9K (28.8K is the KBB Trade-in) + tax, $45 doc fee & $ 23 lic fee (renewal in Jan-06). i felt they also have to make some money to be in business.

i'm really glad i did. i went to the irvine meet last sunday (probably one of the newest member of this forum to attend -- since i still have the dealer sticker) and saw how well the MB owner's interact with each other. these forums will definitely be a great resource should i run into some questions/issues.

 

We're pretty much in complete agreement:
A. He's way pickier than me: if he likes it, I'll love it.
B. He knows cars better than me: he's got an eye for body work and an ear for engine problems.
C. He works for me: the car I pass on because I would have had to pay him, say, $16,500, ends up on a dealer lot for $18,999 or more. Even the best negotiator doesn't get it for $16,500 at that point unless it turns out to be the day the dealer has to pay his bookie.
D. Your car was an excellant deal for someone, as was mine. Yours, however, was in California where, I'm told, MB's can be cheaper, and I'll bet it was a 6 speed. Still, I can't believe it took 3 months to move, as I'll bet it was incredibly clean.

 

yeah, used only.