Doombot!

I have 02 1.8T Stage 2 Jetta - 235 HP / 285 TQ. It crushes my 05 230SS - it's not even close.

Which one would I rather have.... Benz every time.

Doombot!

Chip alone gets you to 215/247 at the crank.

http://www.goapr.com/VW/products/ecu...e_golf18t.html

Cappa26

CF hood would def. lighten the car , you can do other CF things but itll only make a noticeable difference if you do it all. CF Exhaust, interior trim(including the back of seats) CF engine bay covers. all i can think of for reducing weight.

Moviela

I see two possible solutions for your desire to have the pole position. A C55 would do the trick, or from the cross town manufacturer, a 996. Either could do serious damage to a GTi as the wind sucks the doors off.

Bing

lightening


remove passenger and back seats

remove spare tire

remove hood

remove trunk

remove all 4 doors



now wear a helmet and look for that GTI with ricer exhaust

test it

nuclearhappines

the 1.8t is very mod friendly : )

remove your eaton mp45 and replace it with a vortech V5 , G trip and an aquamist 2s methanol injection kit

you won't have any problems after that :p

C-Dub

Who makes bolt-on supercharger upgrades for the c230? I like the roots style blower for the low end response...

what is a "G trip and an aquamist 2s methanol injection" ??????
sounds krazy.

nuclearhappines

let's do some crazy math

our stock eatons are running at around 12000 rpms maybe 12500

that's at a boost level of around 11psi stock

which comes out to around 270cfm with about 20hp driving the supercharger

ok so the stock engine making 198hp is actually making 218hp and wasting 20 of it driving the supercharger

making 218hp @ 11psi means that the stock motor flows about 124hp uncharged
or about 153 CFM of flow... (roughly, depends on the tune)

so let's say you want to make 300hp
according to the numbers we just had, you can make that @ 20psi (pressure ratio of 2.4 and a flow of about 370cfm ... 20psi is rediculous

let's say you add an intake, exhaust, headers and your engine flow increases by say 15% then your 153cfm nwo becoems 176cfm is now only a 2.1 pressure ratio which is only 16psi ... hrm this is starting to sound reasonable

i can make 300 hp out of an m271 if i increase engine flow by 15% and find a supercharger/turbo charger that will flow 370cfm @ 16psi with a good enough 70% + effeciency

take a look at the eaton m62 geared to run up to 14000 rpms

flow will be around 430cfm @ 15psi , i will take about 40hp to drive the supercharger at those rpms ...but 430cfm is around 340hp ... take out the 40hp to drive the supercharger and you're left with 300 hp to use

ok so last thing to look at is heat...driving the m62@14000rpm @ 15psi you'll get your peak temps about 230 degrees above inlet temps ...

whereas with your current setup m45@12500 @ 11psi or so you're looking at about 180degrees F over the inlet air temps (outside air temps)

this is all before the intercooler... but let's assume your intercooler is maxed out ... you have 50 degrees F of hot air that you have to cool down (to get back to stock like reliability with your new setup )

that's why i say alcohol injection ... alcohol injection can bring the temps down, is a knock deterrant, and can be used as a high octane fuel (if you use enough of it)

of course you're shooting for 340 crank hp vs the stock 218hp ...you need to bring about 50% more fuel to the mix to make this new setup of yours work...

it's either bigger injectors + chip
or you're going to use something like a haltech additional injector controller and enough injector flow for about 120hp which is about a single 780cc/min injector as a minimum . maybe 2 440cc injectors

but basically it's either a turbo, or this kind of a buildup if you're looking to make a signficant hp jump on this car ...

you want to add this up ?

2000 eaton m62
500 custom mounting brackets and inlet/out let piping (depends who does this for you)
350 Haltech AIC
150 Single 800cc injector (RC engineering)
350 Aquamist 1s water injection kit (or intercooler upgrade)
60 Intake
2000 Header
500 Exhaust (Custom 2.5")
150 new 6 rib pulley
60 new belt

you want to tally this up : ) ?

6120 for 300 hp

of course you can make your own header, you can sell off your mp45 and stock exhaust manifold and maybe even your stock c230 exhaust...

you can reduce that figure a bit ... but that's what you're looking at ...for 300 hp ... (which i don't really think is that much hp for 6 grand honestly)

other way to do this would be to ditch the supercharger, get a custom made exhaust manifold, slap on a turbo that fits our criteria (370cfm @ 2.1 pressure ration) and then get some supporting mods (Fuel, water injection...etc)

this way you save maybe 500 on the s/c price and 2000 for the header

if all this is making your head hurt, getyourself a small nitrous kit...

MB-BOB

At two different times today, I ran across two "R32" optioned GTIs. Looked pretty nice with the dual exhaust and +2 wheels, front facias, etc. I logged onto the VW site and found they're a factory-optioned V6 model, but are no longer available in the US so I can't find any specs... Does anyone know more (HP, torque, etc) about these shoeboxes?

C-Dub

nuclearhappines- you sure are working the calculations! I appreciate the knowledge. If you have the same blower with the pully mod by kleemann and supporting chip... does this get close to the calculated 16psi? They claim 20% increase in HP and Torque... Headders should add more HP too...

I would love like 275 HP at the crank... 300 would definately be hot.
Then I would be stepping to Infininty G35's power range too...

Has anyone done the kleemann pully/chip mod that can share dyno results?
I am considering this option:
http://www.kleemann.dk/site/Main/tun...erformancekits

Capt Nemo o2

If I remember correctly the R32 uses the stock Audi 3.2 V6, so the specs are the same as that. The R32 was also AWD.

mick1

the article below got those specs:

http://www.vwvortex.com/artman/publi...cle_1569.shtml

AdamVax

if i remember correctly i think the R32 has around 240-250's HP stock

mick1

according to the article above

"Mk5 R36, powered by a 300bhp version of the B6 Passat’s 3.6-litre VR6 FSI."

will arrive in 2007

nuclearhappines

if you look @ the eaton flow charts

@ ~12500 rpms @ 10psi you get around 270cfm
@ 14000rpms @ 15psi you'd probably get the same 270-280cfm (there is no 15psi line on the charts but if the 15psi line is as far from the 10psi line as the 10psi line is from the 5psi line (which is a pretty good approximation)

then spinning the supercharger up from 12k to 14k on the m271 to get more boost will make you lose hp... you take more hp to drive the supercharger... you are getting the same cfm as you were before...and you're carrying more heat in

this is the exact situation that is why some aftermarket companies will sell you a smaller crank pulley kit and you will make more hp underdriving the s/c rather than over driving it

this is only half the story though

with the stock motor we established 154cfm and thus 280cfm is around 11-12psi

if you increase the speed of your eaton m45 and make your motor breathe better (at the same time) then your stock motor cfm will rise (say to 176cfm as we said earlier)

now your boost will drop but you will make more hp ... you'll be making 320cfm @ 10psi @ 14000 eaton rpms which is 257 hp... take away 22hp to drive the bloewr and that leaves you with 235 hp to drive around with...

this is all theoretical ... this is kind of what you get when you get the complete kleeman package (pullies + header + intake + exhaust + tuning)

realistically you are going up from 218hp to 257 hp...but because of heat, driving the supercharger...etc you've only moved up from 198 to 235hp ...good jump but no where near 300 (which is EVO, STI, SRT4, DSM, Alltrac, MR2) territory ...

most of the fun compact sports cars are in the mid 200s + nowadays...

if you're really nuts push your eaton m45 to 16000 rpms... and make your motor (magically) able to breathe 274 cfm of air ... if you could do that you'd only be spending the smae 20hp to drive the eaton as you do stock, your intake temps will be 50 degrees COOLER, and you'll have a peak flow of 370cfm which is 297hp

take away those 20 for the eaton and you're left with 277hp damn that's looking pretty good

how are you going to make a motor that breathes 154cfm stock breathe 274cfm ?

if you bore out the 1.8 to a 2.1 you theoretically pick up 16% flow that's 24.64 cfm
if you raise your redline with cams from 6000 rpms to 7500 that's a 25% jump (Assuming you're got peak power where it should be)

1.16*1.25* 154cfm =223.3 cfm

damn you're still 41 cfm short

porting your head, reshaping the head, proper sized valves, reworked intake manifold , ported throttle body ...too much work to do

but it can be done ...

that's the thing ...eatons are not designed for high boost (usually) ... unless you get the endyn upgrade (carbon fiber rotors capable of up to 26psi of boost) ...

so usually with the eaton you're always playing this compromise between blower flow adn motor flow...you get to a point where you make alot more hp by increasing your motor's flow capacity forcing your blower to operate at lower boost at the same gearing ...which brings your temps down and increases the blower's flow ... which is why motor mods on turbocharged and supercharged motors usually show big or double the gains they would make on a normally aspirated car.

i hope that answered your question somewhat

TheBossman

yes like i stated....at the crank.. Now take about 20-30% of that away and your just at close to 200whp...but it helps to have that hp and KEEP IT there with a TIP, samco hoses, cai, dv, t.b. exhaust and a fmic and you will have over 200+ and not to the crank but the wheels

e1000

.. or you could buy a C350..

Capt Nemo o2

Im typing this up again because IE7 crashed on me...

nuclearhappiness, you are confusing me. The amount of boost a SC makes is dependent on the size of the engine, the engine speed, the difference in speed between the SC and engine, and how much air the SC moves.

For instance if the 1.8L makes 11 PSI at redline (6000 RPM)...

Without a SC the engine sucks in a volume of 190.698 ft^3 every minute.

1.8 L = 0.063566 ft^3
0.063566 ft^3 x 3000 = 190.698 CFM (3000 is used because its a 4 stroke and only takes in 1.8L every other revolution)

In order for the SC to make 11psi over ambient pressure, it not only needs to supply ~191 CFM, but it also has to add about 75%.

Assume running at STP and no pressure loss from the IC.
1 ATM = 14.6959488 psi. --> 11 psi / 14.6959488 = .7485056 ATM.

Therefore in order to make 11 psi, the SC needs to compress the air to 1.75 ATM or move 1.75 times the amount of air. 1x would equal the engines N/A vacuum, 2x would be double the volume which would be 2 ATM or ~14.7 psi (twice the amount of air but in the same volume).

190.698 x 1.7485056 = 333.43652 CFM.

In other words, at redline the SC needs to put out 333.5 CFM, and that is assuming there is no pressure loss.

So in other words to get 15 psi, you would need to select a supercharger that at 6000 RPM engine speed will put out 385.35144 CFM. Assuming the M271 uses the MP45 blower, it would need to be spinning at almost 17000 RPMs, so you would have to do the gearing math on that to see what size pulley you would need to make 15 psi.

Now... If anyone wants to venture into this with me... (warning its rice, but will work)...

We remove the stock SC, I can find blower motors designed to ventilate gasoline fumes out of the engine compartment of boats at fairly cheap prices (about $50 each). These blowers put out about 250 CFM, we get two of them we will have an available 500 CFM of air. That would give us almost 24 pounds of boost. The advantage of this is there is no parasitic loss because they are electric (minor parasitic loss due to increased load on the alternator). Another advantage of this is you can have the blowers change speed in a non linear relation with the engine. This will allow you to make more boost at a lower RPM so that you can have more power at the low end. Essentially you will be flattening out your power curve giving you alot more usable power.

C43AMG

No one knows you have a six speed clown,put it in your sig.I don't know who you calling beeoch.You got your finger in the belt loop of a GTI owner.He owns you now,clownboy. :v

Outland

I have a lot of respect for the modding potential of the 1.8T. But that body kit is not working for me.

Outland

What's the price difference between a 1.8C230 and C350....its like 10K, isn't it? Its about 9 on the newer, slower V6 powered C230. I know for 10K, I could build a C230 that would wipe the floor with the C350.

TURBO!

Capt Nemo o2

Not to mention one that would be lighter by a couple hundred pounds in the nose, so the handling would be better too.

e1000

With the same options, the price difference is $7,750 (2006 C230 vs 2006 C350) Don't want to cause a fight, just saying.

Outland

I just looked at the base prices. And the 2005 version, which the original poster has, was less expensive. I think its nearly 10K from 2005 to 2006. Doesn't matter really anyway. No one is going to sink 10K into a C230, right?

mig888

Now wait just a minute! Aw dammit.. haha.

flip