patrick_y

Add another PLUS to the C230 list.

The IS250 has much smaller brakes. The C230 has these beautiful 13.6 inch Brembo brakes (although don't ask me why they only have two pistons in the front) in the front.

These brakes are a constant conversation starter for me. While I hate them because I know they're going to be expensive to replace, I do appreciate them as a conversation piece. Isn't every day that you can say that your car has brakes that are bigger than a Ferrari 575M Maranello. Well, actually I can say that just about any day I want.

When I'm more humble, I explain that it's overkill and that Mercedes only put that in there so they can make more money in the servicing.

mick1

manual transmission cars are so easy to drive nowadays, even in heavy traffic. They are not like the cars from years ago with heavy clutches and gearboxes. I prefer driving a manual because i enjoy using the clutch and gearbox. I don't think pushing buttons on the steering wheel can be as satisfying although I know it's quicker

patrick_y

I've driven manual vehicles several times in my life, and all the time, I was not very good with them.

Driven Subaru, BMW, Toyota, even Lamborghini Diabolo in manual. Just not very fod of manual. Now, personally, I love those new paddle shifting manuals, the one that actually has a clutch but is robotically controlled. The Maserati is my favorite.

The Porsche 911... Naturally, if I were to ever get one, I'd definitely buy it in manual, however, in the special case of the Turbo, where the Automatic is actually faster, I think I have a good excuse to get the automatic and to escape criticism. Then again, why am I worrying, I'm not planning to get a Porsche 911 Turbo, at least not any time soon.

Going back to driving the manual cars. Yes, it's definitely learnable. Probably something that I can learn to love. For crying out loud, my mother drives manual better than I do, I'm pathetic.

mick1

Jeremy Clarkson's view on Lexus automobiles

http://www.leftlanenews.com/2006/05/...girls-go-eugh/

fasteddie

Get the BMW with the SMG transmission.......

patrick_y

I really can't wait for the new Porsche to come out with their DSG transmission.

I've driven all of the current BMW M series, M3 with SMG and M5 with SMG and I can say this. It's not very good. When you drive the car very aggressively, the transmission shifts so smoothly that you hardly notice it. But then your wife (or girlfriend/mother in my case) will think you're a crazy driver for driving so aggressively. When you drive normally (like in local stop and go traffic) the transmission shifts so slowly and uncomfortably that my head actually moves forward. Now, your passenger(s) will think you don't know how to drive at all.

So far, out of all the sequential gearboxes, I like the Maserati Cambiocorsa system the best. I've been told that the Aston Martin system is very good too (the one found on the Vanquish not the DB9, the DB9 is just an automatic transmission with paddles while the Vanquish has a robotic clutch) however I'm not terribly keen on owning an Aston Martin.

If BMW ever improves their M3's SMG system to equivalent that of the Maserati Cambiocorsa system, I'll buy it in a heart beat (after I get a good price).

patrick_y

Yup, that's some lexus owners to a T. I will say this though, sometimes I really think that I wouldn't mind owning one of those Lexus IS cars.

I seriously think the IS is a good car. I'd buy it, possibly even over my C Class.

Outland

Finally, someone speaks the truth on this gawdawful gearbox. I haven't experienced DSG(that's the Audi setup, right) but SMG was just horrible. The salesman was embarrassed...he thought it was broken. I can't really see the need for these kind of boxes when so many fine manuals are available.

The Floppy paddle shifters are just as bad as automatics in my book.

patrick_y

Seriously, the SMG really isn't very good at all. Unless you drive aggressively all the time.

Put it this way, you can buy an M3, drive it for a year or two, and then try to sell it off. Keep in mind, since you've driven the car so aggressively, it's bound to fall apart sooner or later.

Plus you'll be eating a lot of fuel.

I can't wait for the Porsche DSG from Audi. That sounds promising.

I also think the Ferrari and Maserati floppy paddle gearbox is good. Haven't driven the Ferrari but I've driven the Maserati, I expect them to be similiar.

"Floppy Paddle Gearbox" Jeremy Clarkson would say that.

mick1

Outland, this automobile reviewer dislikes BMW's SMG just as much as you do:

- "The M5's clunky seven-speed transmission makes the car downright annoying."

- "The mechanism in the M5's transmission, however, is a poor compromise that offers neither the smoothness of a good automatic nor the crisp, controlled feeling of a manual."

- "Despite the choice of either automatic or do-it-yourself shifting and a total of 11 different computer controlled shift programs, the shifts through the first three gears were consistently slow and jarring. In automatic mode, the car lagged noticeably when one gear disengaged and lurched forward when the next gear took hold."

- "The SMG is at the heart of every move the M5 makes, however. The M5 should be an unalloyed joy, but the gearbox makes driving it a series of small irritations that grow larger with repetition."

source: http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/a.../1002/BUSINESS

patrick_y

Damn, that guy puts it better than I could say it.

Ecin

Get the Lexus or Wait for the W204. Do you guys care about the value of your car? W203 came out in 01, the lexus came out in 06, and the benz in 08. It will be available around Q2 2007. The choice is yours. I wouldn't want to be caught paying $700/month 5 years from now on a W203. If anything do a 2-3 year lease.

It's your choice. Just think about the future before you regret your purchase. If you will be happy with the W203 5 years from now, great. It's a nice car.

Outland

I'm surprised Overdrives haven't comeback with a vengence, given the price of gasoline. I'd love it...better mileage!

I'd like it even better if it wasn't a true overdriven cog in tranny,...like what was that, the old Mitsubishi's that had a manual overdrive- It had two gear shift levers...one for gears, one to engage the overdrive. Doesn't add much wieght, or cost...It would be nice to have low tight gears for blasting around, and then super talls for cruising.

Outland

I think Jeremy's term is Flappy Paddle Transmission. I can't stand these whatever term you want to give them. I also despise the "slaptronic" automatics with a supposed manual mode, that allows you to slap the lever at a right angle to the normal motion to manually select a gear. Its not the same, it doesn't feel right, the gearboxes responds slowly, and you loose so much power to the slushbox.

Always get the manual when its available. If you can sign your name, you can handle the complexity of a manual.

patrick_y

I think you're a bit late, he probably got his car by now.

Either case, you won't lose terribly with either car.

patrick_y

In post 158, you used the word "Floppy" so I thought it was floppy, but yes, now that I think about it, I believe you are correct, he seems to say "flappy."

I've only been licensed for about 2.5 years and since there is no manual car in the family, there has been little opportunity to practice, thus, I thought that I'd stick with the automatic. I will say however, this automatic is not a "great automatic". Sometimes I'm not in the right gear and when I downshift, it shifts down more gears than I want it to. Plus, there's no way to keep the current gear that I'm currently in.

As my next car, now that I'm more familiar with manual cars (I've had the opportunity to drive some manuals since then), I would definitely consider a manual car as my next car.

Overdrive gears, I'm not sure about the manual gearbox, but on my 5-speed AT, I get very decent acceleration in the 5th gear. However, the RPMs are fairly high (25mph per 1000 rpms). I like my RPMs to stay around the 2000-2500 RPM range, however, at 75 mph, the RPMs have reached 3000 RPMs. Thus, I agree with you, they should've given lower RPMs to save on fuel. However, the benefit to this is that I will not speed since I dislike driving the car at high RPMs. Thus, I normally drive at around 62 mph when the RPMs are around 2500 RPMs and I rarely exceed this speed. I'd drive at 55 mph if I could but then I'd have to be on the outside lane which is normally in worse off condition. Sometimes, when I'm driving in the late evening when the high roads are empty, I'll drive at 55 mph and occupy a lane that's in good condition.

dmg3

I'd get the audi a4 over the IS anyday, can't beat quattro well at least where I live and that lucious interior. Plus its good reliability

RichinPeoria

I was at our Lexus dealer the day the new IS250 arrived. Like the IS300, there was not enough head room. I was very disappointed. Im 6'2", 215lbs. I went out of my way to find the Lexus rep. (not a dealer employee) at the Chicago Auto Show and tell them they lost a potential customer to MB because of their cramped interior spaces. I will not buy a car that does not have side molding like the IS250/350, TSX etc. for obvious reasons.

I have worked in the automotive industry for 20+ years. I worked for Ford for 15 years starting off as a Test Engineer and ending as an Export Engineering Program Manager. I left Ford awhile ago for a Senoir Management position at Caterpillar.

Our 2006 Mercedes Benz C230 is the nicest car I have owned and/or driven. If I was going to buy another car tomorrow the top two on the list would be AMG C55, Porsche 911 .

driftboy

My co-worker who own an IS made fun of my C230, told me MB were unreliable. The very next day, the rear diff. on his IS went out.

Harry Madan

Quote:
Originally Posted by TA-9FF
Nothing against you man, but do you come into MB forums to tell everyone "how much better" Lexus is? You've said nothing but negative stuff about MB's......and I've read most of your posts. You sound like a Lexus salesman buddy. I'm glad you like your Lexus; good for you, you have a great car. But stop knocking our cars if you hate MB's so much; consider whoring around in a Lexus forum so you Lexus guys can all pat each other on the back for buying Lexus'. And we here can drive and discuss our otherwise "****ty" MB's.

i'll back that up too...


But low and behold if I had a to choose between a Benz or a Lexus; hands down it would be a Benz all the way no dough about it, I think you get a lot for more for the buck with a Benz, it’s the little things that we take for granted in a Benz like the “rest feature, the one touch turn signals, auto up/down on all windows and much, much more” besides a Benz will always get a better vote then any competitive Lexus out there. I don’t think I can justify paying a lot more for a higher end Toyota just because it has better leather and a little better interior, although I agree some models of Benz seem a little under powers but the prestige of owning a Benz is there with every model you get, and when you drive a Benz people recognize and respect it a lot more then a Lexus. Everyone knows and respects a Benz not just the young person crowd even the older crowd.
And like yesterday I parked my car at a local corner store and I was getting something out of the back seat of my car and this older gentleman parks next to me and gets out of his car looks over at my car and then turns to his wife and says “see dear that right there is a true Mercedes Benz, classy, elegant and just its presences show prestige and demands respect, non like this kids out there putting on big wheels and making there cars sound like lawnmowers, that’s the stuff you will never need to do on a Benz because you don’t need to be showing off or looking for respect/attention by putting all that useless stuff on your car” As he said this I turned around and he look at me says “son you have a really nice car make sure you take good care of it and be proud of it because your now a part of an elegance group of people, people with class! And always remember your driving a Mercedes Benz” all I could say to the man was thank you, and then I paid for him and his wife’s coffee at the corner store in appreciation that he gave me for my car. I would love to see some guy get that kind of attention with a Lexus or another car for that matter, knowing that fact that the older man did not know what kid of car I had for him it might have just been a usual common 4dr Mercedes. Like I was saying earlier the prestige of owning a Benz is there with every model out there.
JUST to:
“Put in plain words for all the Lexus owners out there PEOPLE DON’T SING SONGS WITH LEXUS IN THEM, THEY SING SINGS WITH BENZ IN THEM AND TALK ABOUT CRUISING IN A BENZ”

The Mercedes logo stands for “ LAND, WATER and AIR we dominate all Types of transportation” Lexus logo is an “L” we know that stands for… we all knew that from kindergarten “Looser”

TA-9FF

Hahahahah! Nice.

I wouldn't drive a Lexus if it was given to me. And if it WAS given to me, I'd sell it and buy mods for my Benz.

And for those Lexus owners who are bragging about having a "reliable" car, this should knock them off their perch.

http://www.detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll...607310359/1148

Quote from article linked:

"This past month alone, the Japanese automaker has recalled more than 1 million vehicles worldwide."

Not even MB has that cred. MB rules. Woot.

patrick_y

I'm not an MB or Lexus sales representative, however, when it comes to these two cars, they really both have their strong points.

While Lexus is considered to be very reliable, I think Mercedes is still not too far away. Yes, we've all seen in the JD Power Initial Quality Survey that the Mercedes sometimes has a few problems, mostly small (but nonetheless annoying) electrical glitches. However, if we look at the power trains on both cars, Mercedes engines rarely fail, and transmissions are quite solid. Lexus is the same likewise, however, they did have a Lexus LS430 transmission recall for quite a few vehicles.

Let's put it this way, while Mercedes probably isn't as reliable and as bulletproof as it used to be, Lexus' quality has probably been downgraded slightly as well.

Yet, when it comes to the small, compact, rear wheel drive sport sedan, I would consider the Lexus IS a worthy competitor among the BMW 3 series and Mercedes C Class. Sorry, I don't include Audi since Audi is different territory in my opinion with its 4 wheel drive (a necessity in some areas where I would only consider buying an AWD car and not a RWD car).

If I were in the current market for a compact sports sedan car, I would consider all of the following; Lexus IS, Mercedes C, and BMW 3 with equal enthusiasm. Both have their strong points and weaknesses.

I have an acquaintence who has recently acquired a Lexus IS250 and having sat in it, I was very happy with it. I test drove the IS350 and I thought it to be a very good handler and that its handling was comparable to Mercedes and BMW handling. Handling is the biggest deal to me when it comes to a car.

Lastly, the Lexus is still overall a great car. There will be some people who will prefer the BMW 3 or the Mercedes C over the Lexus and that's fine. Personally, among the three cars, I'm at a loss, they're all great. I just wished that we could get the strong points from all three of them and put them into one car.

eckc21

The only thing i would complain about the IS is its rear seats are so damn small. It's designed only for two small people. If you are at the driver's position of an IS and look back, you will think the car is a coupe because the seats are so close to you. I would feel embrassed if I have to carry my parents or my girlfriend's parents in the back of an IS.

Other than that, IS is a very nice car. It rides so smooth and quiet. Handling wise, I think the MB C is better.

sdsilverm3

For those who are complaining about rear seat space/legroom in the Lexus, when was the last time you sat in the back seat of your own C-class? Both cars suck when it comes to back seat space.

ultraseven

i will give the edge to the 230 based on straight line acceleration numbers alone. Other than that, there's very little going for it at this point.