eason

Have anyone actually ordered or using a ASP pulley besides Buellwinkle?

It is very hard to decide which brand to get since I don't want to spent too much money. To me, a pulley shouldn't be cost over couple hundreds of dollors, since it is just a piece of metel.
Thanks

mdp c230k

For many, many reasons I am going to use the ring type. It maintains the factory harmonic damper which is important and that is just a start. Others may say otherwise, but, I know of what I speak.

totita

Is the factory harmonic damper a separate piece from the pulley or the original pulley acts as a harmonic damper. Please post your experience after installing it. Are you going to install the pulley or an authorised KLEMAN dealer.
Thanks

avlis

This is exactly why I'm not buying a pulley any time soon. Why are there no definite answers to any of these questions (a/f ratio, bolt torque, damper, warrenty, ect.)? How many threads here debate the RON setting and still have no answers? Are the tuners NOT testing their products? How hard is it to put a stock car an a dyno and run a baseline, add a mod, do another pull, change a setting, do another pull, and so on? I've visited the web sites of the major players in the pulley game and there isn't any more info given on the "boost kits" for this engine than there is for the floor mats. What's the big secret? I don't care how "big" or "popular" the company is- they all seem to be doing things half-@ssed compared to what I'm used to. All that seems to be posted here are opinions, but rarely any facts. Reasons such as these have me wary of purchasing performance parts from these guys. As soon as I start seeing clear dyno charts (remember the one with the speed vs. hp plot?), clear installation instructions, informative web info, and lastly, answers to these questions will some lucky manufacturer get my sale. Even $350 is too much to spend for something that leaves so many questions unanswered. I know a pulley isn't rocket surgery, but then again, how come nobody seems to have clear answer as to what the ECU settings should be?

Sorry for the rant, but I'm wondering if anyone else feels the same way? I'm on the sidelines until someone gets thier act together and starts properly marketing a solid product.

vadim

I have received mine 2 weeks ago and, if time permits, will install it this Saturday. I already have fuel quantity set to 2, and will ask the dealer to change the ignition setting to 93. It used to be set to 93, and then at some point I asked the tech to change it back to "base". It felt like the car had become less responsive, so I'll run it with the pulley at "base" for a while, then have them change it to "93" to see what kind of difference it will make.

MagmaSilk

mdp c230k - i have the kleemann ring-type for the slk for sale. its brand new ... never even opened th box. it will require a $40 alt pulley from kleemann as its slightly diff for slk ... but im offering the kit for $450 ... originally $600.

daitran@synergyinc.com

DCX Engineer

My ASP Pulley should arrive in 2 1/2 weeks. I had the Fuel Quantity changed to Stage 2 today. I am leaving the ignition at base as recommended by edpvt with his Kleemann kit.

My car is a commuter and is driven 3,000 miles/month. I don't drive it hard, but want more power for highway passing.

Buellwinkle

The damper is a metal ring that is pressed on the back of the pulley with about a 1/4" groove on the back filled with rubber. Some believe this part is essential to engine operation, some believe that it's there to reduce engine vibrations for comfort reasons. Each camp gives a good argument but that's all it is for now because to my knowledge there has not been any engine failure due to any pulley kit since they first became available 4-5 years ago for our motor. There have been some S/C failures but that would have nothing to do with the damper. The good thing is no matter what you believe, there's a product for you.

mdp c230k

Actually, the damper is not pressed on as suggested, it is attached to the pulley by a rubber damping material that is poured into the space between the damper and pulley while it is held at the proper position to cure. The ring type pulley kit maintains the balance of the engine as it is a circle around the center of the rotational axis of the engine. In other words, it is around the center of the crankshafts spinning axis and since it is evenly distanced from the center it does not change the moment or induce additional wobble. The damper still functions as MB intended it to as it is unchanged, after all why is it there if it doesn't need to be? If the damper was removed, in theory, the additional crankshaft wobble would eventually cause increased wear on the bearings. Increased bearing wear will lead to a drop in oil pressure on the journals, increased piston slop and cylinder wear, and much more.This will take some time but it will happen and make rebuild very costly. This won't be noticible from the outside but will if the engine is opened up. This is just my educated opinion of course, your milage may vary.

Buellwinkle

Have you actually seen the pulley off the car? Because I don't know how you can say that after looking at it closely. On the back you actually see a groove with rubber, but on the front part of the pulley it's metal on metal. So if you are right, where does the rubber appear on the other side of the ring? To me it doesn't appear to be a gap at all. You're in So Cal, stop over and I'll show you what it really looks like.

linh

You are a smart shopper !!!!

eason

You will also be a smart buyer if you have to spent your hard earn money.

For the harmonic damper, I think MB engineers put it there since they need their engines to last thousands of mile under all kinds of condition, but I am not sure.

shtatc

I believe that all auto manufacturers use harmonic dampers on their pulleys/motors, not exclusive to MB. I read they use them regardless of the configuration of the motor - normal aspirated and/or SC or turbo. That is why I am cautious to change pulleys, since there seems to be no clear cut answers.

eason

One more point I want to make. When most Supercharge and turbo kit only cost $3500-$5000, paying $1500+ dollars on just a pulley kit seems unreasonable to me.

mdp c230k

There must be complete isolation for the harmonic balancer to work. You will not see the rubber on the front of the pulley because that would mean that the belts would be driven by rubber isolated surfaces! Take a look at the pulley again and I'm sure you'll see a small gap behind the damping ring possibly hidden by the smaller belts ring but it will be there.

Buellwinkle

I can see why someone may get the impression that the damper ring is completely isolated but I just got my hands dirty and put an ohm meter between the damper ring and the hole the crank bolt goes through and there's solid connectivity thereby proving my theory that the damper is rigidly attached to the body of the pulley. You have to find a scratch on the damper to get a proper reading as the electricity has a tough time with the black coating. There is no coating on the surface where the bolt goes through and the pulley contacts the seals.

sdcaclint

"So what does it all mean Bazil" Austin Powers (you have to say it like Austin)

buell
good insight to demonstrate your point. if the pulley can transmit electrical signal, it certainly can transmit vibration. you have cleared up a stumbling block for me for sure. ASP will have my money soon.

mdp c230k

Buell, what two points did you use to measure between? If the pulley is out of the car then measure between the center channel and on the back outside of the rubber groove. This will insure you are on the damper and not two parts of the same piece. If there is a rubber groove as you said it would be pointless if the damper was in contact with the rest of the pulleys metal.

Buellwinkle

OK, I did it again, zero ohms, full connectivity. I laid the pulley down with the back up (the part that would mount closest to the motor. I touched one electrode to the outer rim of the damper, just outside the rubber strip because it had some scratches anyway and I can get bare metal. The other electrode is on the bare metal part inside of the rubber ring as shown below.

mdp c230k

The damper is quite possibly connected via rubber AND internal metal springs thus making it one unit as far as an ohm meter sees thus making it a invalid test of seperation. Take a look at these two pages and you will see that a damper is needed and my contention that it could have a conductive path between the two parts.
http://www.innerauto.com/innerauto/text/engi29.html
http://www.supras.com/~riemer/sonict...atedamper.html

mdp c230k

Everyone should read this white paper.
http://www.dinanbmw.com/html/danger_...er_pulleys.htm

This might set everyone straight once and for all!

Buellwinkle

That's a good one, metal springs inside to conduct electricity. Face it, it's pressed on, metal against metal. I looked at it good with a magnafying glass in bright light and there is no gap what so ever between then damper ring and the pulley. Also, what happens when the rubber ages and gets harder, does it still dampen at the specified frequency? Why don't some cars have them at all?

young

can you take it apart? then you can see what is inside. take pics.

actually, better yet, take it to a metal band saw and cut a section.

Buellwinkle

In case you never seen a spring loaded harmonic damper like your article mentions, here's a picture of one. I watched them make mine while I waited and it's a fairly complex product. Excellent product by the way, really works, much more effective than a rubber isolated damper. MB used to use dampers like these but manufacturing costs are too high (these go for $400).

But you have to consider that a perfectly balanced lightweight pulley is not going to cause as much torsional twisting as the heavy cast steel pulley the factory puts in. The additional mass on a ring modified pulley contributes to the crankshafts inability to react to the internal forces and it twists more. By lightening the mass on the crankshaft it doesn't twist as much. Honda learned this a few years ago and their high performance, high reving, high dollar engines use lightweight solid crankshaft pulleys with no adverse effects. To imply that using a solid crankshaft pulley will damage your engine is without merit since in the last 5 years that our motor has been sold in the US and Kleemann has been making solid pulleys there has never been a reported failure. And for the record, there have been 3 reported S/C failures, 2 on coupes and 1 on a SLK and each had a factory crankshaft pulley with a ring. Why? Maybe because the imbalance of doing it that way or the additional mass on the outer edge of the pulley actually introduced belt vibrations that transmitted to the S/C. The S/C is spinning at 14,000+ rpm with a pulley and the slightest imbalance or vibration might be enough to damage it or maybe it's just chance but 3 is a large number considering the people on this forum who had a pulley a month ago.

Buellwinkle

Sorry, picture didn't take.....