We Coupe BOSE users got STIFFED!
 

I got a C320 loaner today, man talk about a sound difference!

What is the deal with that?! I understand automotive acoustics - probably better than the average guy - but I can't see the cabin making THAT much difference.

Are there more speaks?! Can we adapt coupe to be the same?

Buel: will audio 10 sound like this? (I hear you've sampled many models through your service dept. :D )

I'm sure it's been debated, but I feel robbed!

well, there is a cost difference between the 2 models... coupsters get D-rings! :D

personally, i'm ok w/ the bose (as long as i don't hear anything better ;))

I believe the C320 does have more speakers. Maybe someone can confirm this.

Re: We coupe bose users got STIFFED!
 

You can't compare the cassette radio on the C320 (or the Command radio) to the Audio 10, night and day difference. That's the only part about loaners that bug me, listening to that crap cassette radio. The Audio 10 is way better. More balanced sound and way more bass.

On the one hand, I have never heard a car system that sounded as accurate and balanced as a really good home system (and I have heard the Levinson/Lexus and other touted ones). On the other, that means that I have lower expectations and, since I cannot pay adequate attention to the music while I drive, my requirements are more modest.

That said, the system in my C320 is as good as any stock system I've owned. Some have had more bass but poorer integration of that bass. If the Audio 10 is better, good, but there's no need for more bass for the music I listen to.

BTW, although I review audio equipment (sort of) professionally, I lease my cars and, therefore, I am limited in what I could do IF I wanted to. For me, adding the CD changer will suffice.

Check out the Volvo sound system, my Volvo S60 has 10 speakers and sounds great, with excellent bass. This is a stock system for the S60 2.4T.

Well, I did test-drive the car when I was shopping but, y'know, I never turned the audio on. As I said, my expectations and needs are such that car audio is a very minor consideration.

Don't get me wrong... the audio is completely secondary. But hey, lets pick the nits. I agree that home audio is first and well, whenever you have room to put multiple subs, 5' high racks of amps you'll get better sound. In fact my home theater setup (excluding tv) probably weighs less than my car!

My previous car had much done to it - a/d/s 840 and 4100 amps driving 14 speakers including dual voice coil solid aluminum 12" subs. The front doors both had special spherical drivers that created a beautiful image - the rest of the speakers were 'mere' a/d/s mid-line components.

All this driven by Sony's high-end C90 deck feeding into a 4000X EQ/DSP that time shifted the signal from each component so that all the sound from all of the speakers arrived at the driver's head at the same time.

Sooo... all that having been said, bose sucks. Audio 10 sucks. But it will do just fine - until I get the itch again ;)

BTW my audio 10 showed up today. As soon as my MP3 RF feed stuff shows up, I tear in!

You can't compare any factory installed sound systems to an after market system. Your last car had 14 speakers, what car company installs a system like that. I wouldn't pay for it. But hey, you can think about that old 14 speaker system while your being fitted for your first set of hearing aids.

I think the Bose sounds much better than the stock system, which is the intent. I think that my 300M does sound a bit better at low to mid volume, however the C230 Bose handles the louder volumes without much distortion.

Speakers in Coupe vs. Sedan
 

I asked this question a few months ago...

https://mbworld.org/forums/showthrea...upe+Bose+Specs

There are ten speakers in the Sedan. Info direct from Bose:
1 x 2" center fill in dash
2 x 1.5" tweeter in mirror patches
2 x 6.5" wide-range in frt. door
2 x 2" tweeters, mounted coaxially with...
2 x 6.5" wide-range in rear doors
1 x 9" low-mass Nd TM woofer in package shelf

There are eight speakers in the Coupe. Again, from Bose:
1 x 3" center fill in dash (why larger than sedan I don't know)
2 x 1.5" tweeter in mirror patches
2 x 6.5" wide-range in frt part of door
2 x 6.5" wide-range in rear part of door
1 x 4x6" woofer in rt side trunk trim

This is not a criticism of your statement with which I agree. However, it is the relating of multiple subs and racks of amps with quality is exactly what I find reprehensible about car audio. My home systems probably weigh more than some minicars but I can put together one that's small, light and cheap and, given that it is in a decent room (of the type for which recordings are mixed and balanced), will reproduce a musical event far better than is possible with any equipment in a car. (N.B.: If you are using real-time DSP acoustic correction, I withdraw my challenge.)

Of course, if high levels and pounding bass is mostly what you are after, go for it. Just turn it down when you pass through my neighborhood, please.

well, this explains it...

It certainly isn't that extra pair of tweets - in the coaxial speakers.

As to my music tastes, system design etc... well I don't listen to rap, hip hop or anything along those lines. In fact my music of choice would fall in with Coltrane, Miles Davis, maybe even some Chopin.

I go for imaging, clarity, staging, and ultimately a beautifully flat EQ. That's why the system was built the way it was. If I wanted a dance/rap car... I'd have built an enclosure twice as big as mine, gone with amps by PPI or Rockford (more raunchy sound), spekaers would likely have been MB Quart (nice highs - harsh mids) instead of a/d/s and dynaudio and I'd have gone with more and smaller subs for fast travel.

One more thing, the system I did for my M was totally stealth. All factory locations were utilized and even the dyanaudio casing was painted to match the factory interior. If you ignored the head unit, in fact, you wouldn't know anything was there. The sub/amp rack took up about 1/4 of the trunk and it didn't interfere with spare tire opening or much of the storage.

P

Re: Speakers in Coupe vs. Sedan
 

Just to add a bit to the fray, those of us w/ sedans (C240's) w/o the Bose system have found we have almost the same complement of speakers, minus the center fill and the coax tweeters in the rear doors. We do have the 9" woofer in the package shelf. When I test drove some C240's when buying mine last year, I found there wasn't much difference between the Bose and non-Bose, other than the additional equalizer settings.

The difference is very subtle, mostly noticed in the bottom line ($$$). I get loaners all the time (16 so far) and I've driven C240s (non-bose) and C320s (bose) and bass isn't enough for most music I listen to not matter what settings you chose. But if you like classical music or the news it probably doesn't matter. And before I get flamed, I'm an old guy, I don't listen to hip hop or like my bass so loud that the car shakes. But even listening to standards like Sinatra, Etta James, Bobby Darin I can see a huge difference between a C320 with 10 speaker Bose and the Audio 10 - non bose in my coupe. It's just a fuller, richer sound even a lower volumes. I can imagine that it even sounds better on a C320. If not for the Audio 10 I would have gone aftermarket and that's unusual for me but the cassette radio (bose or otherwise) sounds horrible to me.

Once I get the money I'm gonna be looking at this one: www.reusaudio.com

Now that's like the third time I've seen this Reus thing mentioned... What's their deal? The www site sucks and one can't really tell what their product is. Anyone have other URL's that point out more?

P

Well, I'm probably the ONLY one that mentioned them on this forum, I saw their demo cars at the LA Auto Show last year, and the quality of the sound blew me away. They played jazz music on one of their modified Mustangs, and it was as if they were running a demo of a home theater system. The sound was crisp, clear, and did not have a tweaked-up response range (like sub-only systems are). Their emphasis is not only power, but quality as well. They offer full-replacement systems, and also augmenting systems for those who want to keep their stock speakers. I talked to them about getting a system on a C-coupe (with Bose), and they said for an augmentation system they usually add an additional amp (alongside the stock one), a sub, and a few tweeters to increase the dynamic range of the system. They gave me a quote of approx. $1200 US.

Another bonus (at least for me) is that they're based in Orange, CA, almost right next to where I live. I got a business card from them, and I hope to contact them when I have the resources to purchase a system from them.

If you got some spare time and you're in the area during January, check them out at next year's LA Auto Show, it's really impressive.

Would you email me their person that knows the C coupe augmentation? I'd rather have a contact than going in cold. Maybe they can sell me the parts they're talking about. I mean 1200 for an amp some tweets and a sub is a pretty good price.

Thanks much!
P

peet, I sent you a PM with the business card info., let us know what you find out.

Ok, the plea went out to Mr. Reuce himself. Perhaps he'll find the market opportunity of packaging a 'make the C230 sound better than a mono radio' kit attractive.

I'll update all in a new thread when I get a response!

Cheers.

P

Re: Speakers in Coupe vs. Sedan
 

great info! I was wondering where is the last speaker i didn't count.:)

There is nothing wrong with the Bose audio system in the coupe. I caughed up the extra $$ and got the factory CD. It is an awsome intergrated sound system. The fiber optic conections provides a much better sound quality than that of copper wiring. Have you ever listened to a CD on a DVD player with the fiber optic digial conections ? There is a noticeable quality difference than that of a regualar CD player. It is the same concept in the car. However, the Bose system will not help FM music much because of the broadcast quality. The Bose website explains everything. In short, you get what you pay for. It looks to me that many of you cheaped out on the CD player but ended up paying more in the end.

Sorry.. but you have 2 mistakes... 1) listening to Bose and assuming (check Benny Hill definition of that word) that they know what they're doing. 2) making a blanket statement with no knowledge of the fact at hand!

You see, even he FM section sounds better. Find a car with Audio 10 and bose and a car with a changer and cassette and bose. Put on your favorite radio station. Listen. Eat your words. Come back here with tail between legs.

Thank you.

Pete, I know what you mean. You can tell people the Audio 10 is better but they don't believe you, their loss. Once they sit in your car and hear it, it blows them away that changing one MB HU for another can make such a difference. Between the Audio 10 and the pulley it's made my car one huge notch better than before and certainly a more enjoyable driver.

Not to Kill a dead horse here, but here we go. I'm dumb because I really don't know. Anyhow, a few questions:


Does the Bose System Sound Good with the CD Changer, but not with Cassette/FM Radio, or is it just under powered???

If I got the Bose System then I got the Audio 10 Head Unit would everything still operate properly (ie amps, speakers etc.)??

Also as a side note, I remember a while back (or maybe hopeful wishing) that it was noted that when the 2003 came out they
were moving things like window switches, Bi-Xeon option, and Single CD Radio replacing cassette?? I'm not sure about
the Window switches, but I know the Bi-Xeons won't be available for at least a month or two, yet '03s are on the lot??
Maybe (again probably me dreaming) the '03s with the Bi-Xeon are a revised version of the 03's?? Okay maybe I pulling
this out of the air, but I guess I want some confirmation that I'm just dreaming??

I love the C-Coupe but I can't stand spending $30K+ on a car without a decent CD Player/Sound System. Heck, my Staurn
that cost $15K Included a fully functional CD Player (including scanning through songs) with a Decent Sound System. Not
saying a radio makes a car, but I spend an average of 20+ hours a week in my car, a decent radio/sound system is important
to my driving enjoyment. If GM can make a car with decent factory system why can't MB????

Sorry Guys I've read about 100 messages on this same subject , but I don't think this has been answered yet.

I have Bose in my coupe
 

I have Bose and the 6 cd changer in my coupe and I enjoy it's sound quality immensely. Not having any apparent sound coming from the rear of the car takes some getting used to though. When I switch between our families 2000 Land Cruiser, 84 Land Cruiser and 90 Camry, and then back to the Kompressor, I miss the sound coming from the rear of the car. After driving the kompressor for awhile, I focus on the sound quality, and not where it is coming from. I can turn up the volumn on the kompressor sound system and it is clear and precise, especially from a cd source. I have Bose 901s for my home system for almost 30 years, so I guess you could say I'm a fan.
:)

Why does anyone want the sound to come from the back on stereo program material? As far as I care, the only reason for rear speakers is for rear seat passengers. Since I rarely have the latter, I prefer the sound to come from the front.

BTW, I do have a DVD-A in which the solo pianist is placed in the rear channels and only ambience is in the front channels. The producer opines that this should be less problematic for drivers who do not have the distraction of imagining a performer on the front hood. Apparently, he believes that imagining them in the boot is less distracting.:rolleyes:

I have the Bose, it sounds pretty good to me, but certianly could be better, and I don't whine about it. The rear sound generally is the Base from the rear shelf speakers, otherwise it is just rear channel sound easily detected coming from the rear. The ambient sound setting blends a little better than Driver mode.

Only difference in a 2003 over a 2002 is the 1.8 engine and a couple cosmetic changes on the HVAC controls. everything else you might have heard is just rumor, except the late arriving bi-zenons.

sorry, can't resist -- rtfp!

I believe REST mode is gone.

http://www.bose.com/products/auto/


READ ! Bose knows

I still think it is an awsome system

Bose knows what?

Certainly not sound design in the coupe - that's for sure. In fact, your insistence that Bose knows... made me write and send this letter to Bose:

Lets see what they have to say. I truly find it ridiculous the way our sound systems sound. But, that's to be expected. I challenge each and everyone of you to walk into any high end (NOT best buy, circuit city, fry's) audio store and ask the sales pukes how Bose compares to Boston, Paradigm, Polk, Definitive, NHT, oh hell even Infinity. I think you may be surprised at the answer you'll get - that is if you are a Bose fan.

Who knows! Maybe they actually have some customer service that is even 10% of their marketing muscle... maybe, they'll even issue a TSB replacing the elements with something that is more fitting of our cars.

Bose does know. I have been a fan for 12 years or so when I bought my first Bose system. My Pathfinder had Bose as well. I personally think that for the speaker size and placement, they make a fine system. Bose is used as a factory premium sound in a large number of cars/trucks. Many luxury cars such as Mercedes, Acura, Nissan/Infinity, and GM, just to name a few. It is impossible to appeal to all listening tastes for the masses, so the best alternative is appeal to the sweet spot, which to me are the customers that have no desire to modify their cars with pulley's, neon lighting, and stereo equipment. All these mods are fine and good, but just not for my car as I have better ways to spend my money.

Rick, 'What rear shelf speakers', that was a generalized statement about cars and the purpose of rear speakers, or at least perceived purpose. Also, thanks for the spelling lesson, but I am pretty sure everyone was following along. Just a different way to say the exact same thing.

Peet, yeah 2003 is a 1.8, 3 less HP, less weight = same performance as 2.3 (non-modified).

No offense Ted and grn300m but if you say the Bose system in the coupe is awesome you obviously dont know much about car-hifi. It´s true that Bose makes good systems too, but the one they put in the coupe is definately not spectacular. Just because it says "BOSE" on a sticker somewhere doesnt mean that it sounds great. Bose has "the name" and it is quite easy to sell systems if they have the Bose sticker :)

I have some good experiences with Bose too, but in my opinion the Bose in coupes suck :( . I have put aftermarket speakers and aftermarket HU in my coupe (no amps no subs) and the sound is far better than the Bose.

The Bose name is no guarantee of anything. In the home audio market, they are not even in the running for high quality, only for small size. (That, btw, is their marketing position of choice.) In auto audio, it is the name recognition that has the value as the components seem quite ordinary. OTOH, there's worse out there.

Wait for it...


What if we put some Renntech stickers on the radio?




Tee hee! :D

Mercedes paid Bose the absolute minimum required to use the Bose name. Worse, Bose was not allowed any input into the design of the system. Mercedes specified the size, locations and numbers of speaker to be use. I'm sure Bose did the best they could given the budget and physical constraints imposed by Mercedes.

I used to work in the car audio/home audio industry and we had a saying," No Highs- No Lows, it must be Bose". Now I do have a set of 601's for home now because they sounded a lot better then the old Bose BookShelf type speakers. They do not have a low range, even with two 6.5" speakers in them, but I have a 12" sub so it does not bother me. I have a Neon now that the factory speakers actually sound good in with an aftermarket deck, now I am ordering my C230K with the Bose system, just because I want a little more but do not want to lose my Steering Wheel controls. Anyhow from the sounds of this thread I will not be all that impressed by the Bose, but I did not really expect to be, I just want the sound quality, as I am sure after I look at it that something may be able to be done. I will let you know in three to four months when I get it. Although they should not charge as much as they do if it does not sound that much better than the factory one. But does the Audio 10 work flawlessly with the Bose system?

That Audio 10 upgrade really does make a world of difference. It truly makes the Bose sound like it should have from the get go. But that is to say as a Bose should sound - still not great, but light years from the cassette system.

And you're correct, the 601's and 901's were really good speakers (that needed subs). But they really did sound great. Of course, no way you're going to fit those in a car!

No I used to have 3- JL 10W6's run off an Orion 250HCCA at 1 Ohm back in the day. Then I upped to 3 15W6's just to be loud and obnoxious. The bass drum kicked with those. Now I am getting older and just want a little fill because I enjoy trunk space in one car. My wife has 2 10's in her car with the Sirius Sat Radio. That is the other ***** I have about MB, no sat radio...

Sheesh! If that's the standard for 'really great,' I can understand how you can enjoy car audio. :D

I would have prefered another brand. I could not find them where I currently live and forgot the name, I believe they were Nuance. They sounded great and were about half the price of the Bose. I use the Bose for home theater, DVD 5.1 Digital Audio. SO they fit that scenerio very well, but for music they sometimes lack in the high end. My wife liked them and I liked them enough to buy them for the Surround sound system.

Now did I say really great - I don't believe so...

Ok, let's disect.... WERE - GOOD

Hell, Klipsch 'used to be' good.

I myself am running Definitive 3000tl bipolar towers - now those sound GOOD - well no, they sound GREAT. Flat response curves, amazing imaging and ONE HELLUVA BASS PUNCH!

Other speakers I put in the great category B+W (pretty much any one of theirs), NHT, and Linn.

Of course all bets are off when it comes to car audio. None of the 'Greats' have a mobile audio line.

For that My vote (in this order).. Dynaudio, a/d/s, Boston, MB Quart.

Even in that group... Dynaudio and ONLY the a/d/s P series are great - the others Very good.

Hopefully that clarifies my position :D

P

The emphasis on the past-tense does clarify your position but you did say:

"And you're correct, the 601's and 901's were really good speakers (that needed subs). But they really did sound great. "

I, unintentionally, combined your 'really good' with 'did sound great' which seemed to be more than simply a positive feeling. FWIW, I never thought these models ever sounded either really good or great but the 601 was a better value.

Sandy's DefTech speakers are very good bang-for-the-buck.

Any views on the bose system with comand, I have this in my saloon and it is quite strange that some tracks sound brilliant and other sound poor on the same cd. The bose system seems to pull out different levels to a normal system, this is my first experience with Bose.

Not trying to pour salt in the wound
 

I have a C32, in the shop. C230K loaner.

Looks like same exact Bose headunit (not positive tho), but the system in the C230K doesn't sound very good at all, can't even adjust it to improve much. As soon as I turned it on I knew exactly what you guys were talking about. Even my wife noticed it right away. The Bose implementation in the coupe is not done well. Since I am staring at what looks like the same head, I assumed it was speakers or perhaps speaker placements etc. I feel you, the coupe needs some work done on the sound. To me, I am surprised that you can replace the head and get great improvements, but .... I have only had this loaner for a couple of days.

The C32 (C320) sounds far better. Some folks want to upgrade it too but basically it is at pretty acceptable.

Good luck all

RRF.. check your PM.

Crazy ass request!
P

My thoughts exactly. I found a lot depends on the CD. I happen to listen to a lot of jazz, and when I pop in Joyce Cooling's CD "Third Wish" (jammin' guitar player from the Bay Area) it sounds pretty darn tight. That's all I need, frankly.

Re: Not trying to pour salt in the wound
 

Trust me it is better with the Audio 10 CD in place of a cassette, the cassette is made in Japan and the Audio 10 CD is a true Becker.:D

Hey peet, any word back from the guys at Reus?