gwako

hello All,

This might be a newbie question. I have a 02 C230K with a 6 speed manual transmission. My question is when the car is off and the clutch is not engaged, I am able to move the gear shift through all the gears with no problem, I am wondering if that is an issue, as I thought it shouldn't be going into the gears unless the clutch is pressed.

Thanks..Any input would be appreciated.

ScottW911

That sounds normal for every manual tranny I've had, from Porsche to VW. You should only need the clutch to dis-engage the tranny from the engine. If it's off, why would you need to disengage?

Go enjoy the car.

gwako

I was just wondering as it was smooth as butter going into every gear...

white_w203

yes it is normal with all cars that are manual.

tee_tz

Hate to burst your bubble but that is not normal. My cars do not do that... and if you think of the dynamics of a manual it is not suppose to do that.




Tee_Tz.

ScottW911

I think the question is, "does it do this all the time or just once?" I know that even a sticky trans can be smooth when parked if the engine/tranny position is just right. Other times, the engine might be causing pressure that requires the clutch engagement to move the shifter.

mkaresh

Thoroughly normal. No need to second guess your first response, Scott. The clutch is only necessary if the different bits are turning at different speeds. Also takes the load off when the bits are disengaging then engaging. At rest, they're all at zero rpm and zero load.

Even if the car is running, skilled drivers can shift without the clutch by timing the engagement of the new gear just right as revs fall in neutral. I don't do this myself, but it's done. Since even skilled drivers are likely to be a little off, not great for durability.

Capt Nemo o2

It's actually quite easy... put slight pressure on the shifter and you will feel it fall into place... I've done this on several cars... My Triumph being necessary to get home beacuse the clutch linkage broke (could not come to a complete stop)... And in my MB because I hurt my leg and didnt feel like using the clutch!

mkaresh

Cool, now there's someone besides me who can be blamed when someone trashes their tranny experimenting with this technique

Now I can admit that I may have shifted this way a few times...

ScottW911

Thanks for confirming.

tee_tz

[LOL!!] - "Matching the revs" eh?? That's a funny technique. That's not skill, that's your car working overtime. The synchronizer (of the teeth and gear) makes up your error of judgement in RPM. But anyway, try it at home kids -- go from 5 to 3... no clutch ...

Is it 'good' for the car to be engaging gears without using the clutch mkaresh?? Because as I understood it, there is a blocker that disables you from changing gears when the teeth haven't synchronized with the gear and that would explain the 'jerking' when you don't properly engage/disengage the clutch. Furthermore aren't you 'trimming' your dog teeth when you shift like that?

Also, I've concluded somethnig interesting mkaresh, perhaps you'll understand why (my expertise, or lack of, is limited ). My sister's BMW X5 can shift without clutch (just tried it), my BMW 330 cannot. gwako 's C230 can, and my C320 cannot. So it's not a manufacture issue, it seems like it depends on the transmission. Only thing to note is -- I'm sure my cars can shift if I pull really hard, but there is certainly some resistance.


Tee_Tz.

tee_tz

?


Tee_Tz.

mkaresh

I've literally only done this maybe twice ever, and with upshifts, not downshifts. If you do hit it just right there is no wear on the synchros because there's nothing to synchronize. This with double clutching is how it used to be done before there were synchros.

I wasn't aware that some manuals could not be manually shifted with the engine off without pushing in the clutch.

If you really want to minimize wear on the transmission, you should still double clutch. The way this works is you only go to neutral the first time you push in the clutch. This brings the layshaft up to speed with no load on it. Then depress the clutch a second time and go into the new gear. If you really want to make those synchros last forever, this is the way to do it. I don't think anyone usually double clutches anymore, though.

Outland

Its because we have synchros now.

mkaresh

Sure. But some people like to do whatever it takes to make stuff last forever.

Don't you miss the days when everyone had an old aunt who covered all the living room furniture in clear plastic?

advans

normal for all manual trans.

I remember the first time I pulled my 98 5 speed maxima out of the lot. I didnt know I have to step on the clutch to start up the car. what a newb I was!

tee_tz

Ahhh, okay.

Actually I still double clutch, just for the sheer fun and driving experience. It's a clean and fun way to drive -- not that it's needed in a new BMW or Benz, but it's still fun to do it and you just ride so smoothly!

But I don't do it all the time, just every once in a while when I'm not late/rushing.



Tee_Tz