DrMike

There have been lots of posts about the value of the c7 option, but I haven't seen any $ figures comparing the relative replacement costs of the stock wheel/tires vs the c7 wheel/tires. Any one have numbers?

It's just a bit of idle curiosity for me, since our coupe is en route, sans c7, which didn't pass approval by the fashion police (wife and new driver daughter).

tommy

From the accessories section of the MB website, the C7 rims are $1,328 WITHOUT tires. And tires would be more expensive for them than for the stock 16 inchers, obviously. I don't know what the incremental price of the wheel/tire combo portion of the c7 is, but it's gotta be close to the $750 right there.

Don't forget about the other parts of the C7 package. On any non-black car, having black door handles (on a $30k car) wouldn't pass any fashion police (or common sense police, for that matter).

David N.

Don't say that! I have black door handles. In Canada, "Classic" sedans only come with black door handles. It looks good on blue. Tommy, you're too fashionble for your own good. The GUCCI boys must have brainwashed you with some fashion propaganda.

zimmer26

Sorry David, doc, but the unsprayed, raw plasticy door handles are certified aged cheddar cheese, especially on a non black car as Tommy astutely pointed out. What in the C7 didn't get by the fashion police doc? The wheels??

Personally, I didn't mind the stock wheels, but there's certainly nothing wrong with the 17s and those Pilots are great, but for the summer only. I'll get a separate winter wheel/tire package anyhow, so might as well get the performance gear for the summer I figured. And the handles and the alloy pedals and the leater shifter(shorter throws?) who knows, chrome exhaust tip,
door sills, and the enhanced wheel?- how oh how do you say no to all that stuff for that price? If you compare the cost of C7 to
the ~$2000 17" wheels and tires on the WRX it becomes all the more attractive, and that's all the 2 grand gets you- nice wheels and tires of your choice- still a horrible deal.
_______________________________________

Silver is nice but the coupe was made for Orion!

C230/6-speed/orion/C7/changer on order due in Feb!!

David N.

Unfortunately I had no choice. The only way I could escape the black cheese handles was by moving up to the elegance model. That would have set me back an extra 5 grand. Are coloured door handles worth 5 grand? I think not.

But on the coupe, I agree that C7 is an excellent deal. It is must have. The price cannot be beat.

zimmer26

Wow, they really structured the options differently up there I guess- that stinks. No the handles aren't worth 5k, 4 maybe! but out of curiosity- what else came with the "elegance" pack?

young

i like the black handles - nice contrast. dave, if the handles were compatible, i'd trade w/ you. but i'll just have to black tape it

wait until the chrome handles become optional!

David N.

The classic and elegance are almost identical. Elegance comes with:

-body colured door handles
-rims(i bought my own - much nicer than elegance rims)
-digital climate control
- the option to purchase the "full leather" interior as opposed to just MB LEX.
-and I can't remember what else. But I don't think it's anything substantial.

I honestly like the black door handles. It dosen't bother me one bit.

I was considering moving up to the elegance model but my sales consultant talked me out of it. He said the classic model is an amazing value. The extras on the elegance aren't worth the extra money. He's right. All the classic model is missing is rims. The MB lex is very nice, and very close to full leather, so that's not an issue.

MB-BOB

These cars get compared to BMWs alot, and I believe that on all but the top-end 330i (et al), you get the ever popular Black door handles. I guess it's another reason (among the many) not to buy BMW.

DrMike, I remember one of your original posts about your fashion police family. It's certainly important to please everyone who is going to drive the car (if you can). I just hope that the C7 veto came truly as a fashion objection versus a cost objection.

The fashion police in my house often confuse the two, especially regarding cars, which are not as important to them as other staples. (read: they're more concerned with saving money when it comes to cars, than style... but don't hesitate a second to spend hundreds to match shoes and purses).

I've learned to follow-up such objections with my fashion police with a clarifying question, such as, "Are you sure you don't like the wheels, or is it that you don't think we should spend the extra $750?" I can usually confirm that it's the latter. Results with your fashion police may vary, of course. But, some say it's in those XX genes...

If you're really conflicted over the decision and if time permits (to make a change in your order), I'd approach the wife with what it will cost to put wider tires on the stock rims to make YOU HAPPY as the principle driver of the car (assuming that's the case), and see if she agrees that you could accomplish the same thing from the factory for LESS money, and look... see what else you get for "free!!!" She might come around. Good luck.

As for your "new driver daughter," I'm surprised she has any real say in the decision. My "new driver daughter" sits quietly in the rear seat of my MB... it'll be a cold day in hell when she drives it, let alone have any say over what I bought for me. But you do have to please the wife. Any wife worth keeping is worth pleasing, and I'm sure we both share a need to please...

BTW, guys, not to sound Texas chauvinistic, but the correct term is MB-Tex (for texture), not MB-Lex. (I'm pissed they didn't vote "Tatoo" off "Survivor" last night, so I guess I'm unnecessarily focused on "Lex" as a no-no!)

sk-mia

Aesthetics is subjective! Some of us may not like some of the C7 things, including the wheels. I believe that C7 is a great deal money-wise, but really cannot go over the fake look of the C7 wheels, that is, the fake screws along the rim insinuating that these are the component wheels. And the wheels being an overwhelming part of the package, I really could not take it, regardless of being a great deal!.

In addition, MB-Bob, BMWs come with body-colored door handles. I have noticed you trashing the BMWs all the time, but it was really never substantiated. So I suggest that you calm down before you (try to) trash something, and get your facts straight. If you do not like Bimmers, you may say it, but please do not trash them by stating incorrect “facts” about them. And by the way, if you would try to drive one, you may find that these are great cars, they do not call them the "ultimate driving machines” for nothing; when I say they, I mean the magazines, etc., not the BMW people, nor me alone. Chill out.

Flashman

There's a brand new BMW 525 parked next door, I can see it through the window as I am typing this. It clearly has black plastic door handles (car is not black). The Honda Accord next to it, however, does have body-colored door handles.

sk-mia

Well, I have a 323i, which is the same as 325i, and mine has body-colored door handles. However, I do not know if the 5-series has the same features as a less-expensive 3-series, but I believe that it should. Maybe the black door handles are a part of some special (sport?) package, same as the old MB C280 Sport had a black-carbon fiber trim around the windows. But regardless, what I was trying to comment on was MB-Bob's comment that the black handles would be "another reason (among the many) not to buy BMW." Of course, I am not judging his choice of having the door handles guiding his car purchasing decision, I guess we all have our own criteria. Iwas just trying to suggest that he should not be trashing the BMWs, especially for the things that are the same, if not better than Benz's features, including the not-painted door handles (again, my Bimmer has PAINTED door handles).

young

eh, i think your taking MB-bob's comment a little too seriously. a little snobbery amongst the mb crowd has to be expected (and the bmw crowd has similar comments). get one of each!

sk-mia

That is exactly why I am commenting: the snobbery may be directed to somewhere else, because Bimmers are too good to be trashed. Actually, I believe that the 3-series will wash, beat, or whatever term one wants to use, the comparable C's. The only thing that I credit to MB C sedan that it is roomier, but for everything else, Bimmers rule! However, that is my opinion, and it may not be the same as yours or any other MB owner - actually, I am almost sure that you people will not have the same opinion, because than you would be driving Bimmers, eh.

I am still deciding about getting the C Coupe, and the primary reason is to save money over 325i. In order to ease the pain, I am trying to convince myself that I will gain some utility as well, which is inheritent in a hatchback configuration. But still, if it would be up to me, and if I would not care about money, I would certainly go for the Bimmer. Damn recession!

David N.

Bimmers are beautiful cars. I know, we also have one in our family. But you have forgotten one thing. Bimmers and Benzes are different types of cars. Bimmers are sport sedans, Benzes are luxury sedans. Which one you buy is all dependant on what you like in a car. If you like a car that handles very well, that has a sporty suspension, with an excellent I-6, then get a bimmer 3 series, because it is the best sport sedan in it's class.

If you want a car that is seamless, smooth, quiet, unbelievably solid, and that is IMHO the best value out of any car in it's class(in Canada at least), then get a C Class.

To say that "bimmers rule" in all aspects makes me wonder why you bought a benz in the first place. Did you forget MB is luxury oriented? And if we are talking about luxury, and not sport appeal, then MB would rule in every category. A bimmer cannot compare to a benz luxury wise. A benz is in a league of it's own.

C230K

sk-mia I believe that the 3-series will wash, beat, or whatever term one wants to use, the comparable C's.
Next year come on up to Orlando, will autocross my C230 Coupe and will show you what beat means. BMW is an excellent auto, but it takes a good driver to appreciate it's capabilities. Last year beat out BMW M3 with my C70 Volvo, that's right a Volvo. Glad to see that the Coupe does not have the BMW racing stripe or is that black band for door protection. Unfortunately my S60 Volvo had the same stripe, but had it painted. See you the track.
Tom

young

actually, getting michelin pilots or continental contisports are sort of random. and i agree, after i did a quick calculation of all the little pieces, i thought it was a pretty good deal for $750! but then again, i also thought i'd be a little different if i got orion blue and c7 too!

btw, this thread has been officially hijacked!

zimmer26

Young,
I don't see how you consider the 205/55 16" all season H speed tire to be a wash with the 225/45 17" $200/tire Z rated Michelins but maybe when I get to super member I'll understand.:p Not to say the contisports are bad (I've never owned them) but the Michelins are no joke. Will I drop 8 bills on their replacements? Highly doubt it, but for 750 with all the other stuff, this package stands out among all the others as the value leader (OK the roof too, although I found it sucked when fully opened with windows closed- very loud and buffeting.)

Enough about the damn door handles, just face it- the raw plastic ones look and feel cheap and I don't see how people can honestly defend them over the nice sprayed ones - sour grapes!! What does it matter what other cars have- they suck bottom line.

BMW's are nice and a modded almost anything can beat a stock anything. I don't at all believe the C70 vs. M3 story btw. Either he wasn't driving serious or there was something major wrong with his engine- the last gen. E46 M3 ran to 60 comfortably under 6 seconds and the C70 never has or will in stock form, nor will the C60 T5- its just the plain truth is all. And volvos can't come close in a handling comparison and I felt the interior of the T5 an ugly cheesy mess that looks like pure Ford.

However, I feel that the 3 has gotten bloated and more and more luxury minded hence losing some of its sporting edge and MB has gone the other way especially with the C230. So to say that they are two different cars with two different goals is still a bit true, but I found that the C230 does everything that a 325 can do and adds value and uncommonality which are large pluses over the Bimmer in my view. Both are great cars- just depends on personal preferences I feel. Both my brother(current owner of vintage 733 and E46 M3) and I felt the C230 to be just as or more playful and entertaining than the 325.)

Young,
Are you saying I'm unoriginal and/or a follower?
My car was ordered before I even knew this site existed so if the answer to the preceding was yes then I say put 'em in your mouth and suck 'em. If the answer was no then disregard and have a happy and healthy new year! I haven't seen one with the identical config btw- oh well if there were its what I want.
_________________________

C230/6-speed/orion/C7/changer on order due in Feb!!

young

i don't understand what do you mean a 'wash'? the contisports are Z rated tires (225/45/17) that come w/ the c7 package. some got michelin pilots, some got the contisports. when you get your car, it may have either. if you get the standard wheels, you get all-season tires (i think conti tourings).

as for the orion color/wheel package, i too got my car before i found this board and once i got here, i found out that it was a very popular color/option choice. i wasn't making a comment about your case specifically, just overall.

TimmyC230boy

I second that David!

The ONLY BMW's I would ever think of owning would be an M3 or an M5. But, why spend all that money on a M3 when you can get a C32 and pull up beside the M3 and beat him with 3 of your buds in the car. Then take your C32 to the Country Club witht the look of an elegant sedan. Call me crazy but I think there more to cars than just going fast. Any car maker can make there coupe go fast, if you shove a big enough engine in it. But going fast and looking good doing it are to very different things. The C32 does that for me. And before you say "but what about the M5" for the difference in $ get a C32 or a used E55 and take either of them to Kleeman, let them do there magic and "VOILA" M5 killer.
But I'm not ignorant about Bimmers. I think they are great cars, but, they are sport sedans, not a touring automoble. And as long as they are that will be the deciding factor that keeps mb owners getting MB's and Bimmers getting Bimmers.

and as far as a Volvo beating an M3, he was talking about on a autocross course if you read it.

TimmyC230boy

I second that David!

The ONLY BMW's I would ever think of owning would be an M3 or an M5. But, why spend all that money on a M3 when you can get a C32 and pull up beside the M3 and beat him with 3 of your buds in the car. Then take your C32 to the Country Club witht the look of an elegant sedan. Call me crazy but I think there more to cars than just going fast. Any car maker can make there coupe go fast, if you shove a big enough engine in it. But going fast and looking good doing it are to very different things. The C32 does that for me. And before you say "but what about the M5" for the difference in $ get a C32 or a used E55 and take either of them to Kleeman, let them do there magic and "VOILA" M5 killer.
But I'm not ignorant about Bimmers. I think they are great cars, but, they are sport sedans, not a touring automoble. And as long as they are that will be the deciding factor that keeps mb owners getting MB's and Bimmers getting Bimmers.
And as for thr volvo beating an M3. that was on a autocross course. Reread the thread and you will lndertstand

zimmer26

Young,
Sorry, I thought you meant the stock tires vs. the optional Michelin Pilots, which was what I was originally talking about. I didn't know they used two different tires for the C7- whichever I guess although the pilots rate better on tirerack from what I can recall.

Timmy,
My point was modify any car enough and it can beat almost anything on any venue its irrelevant actually. How much more is M3 than C32 again? The C32 is impressive- I saw one in the garage the other day- real sweet but you've gotta drop a manual in that thing if you're MB. Why the manual in the C240 as standard and not available the C32 I just don't get. I'm also fairly certain that the new M3 will beat the C32 handily but I don't recall the actual test figures. Anyway I'm not here to make war- we're already in one. Have a safe and happy new year's.

Apologies again Young, I thought you were delivering a personal blow by mocking my vehicle's config. I wouldn't have it any other way- maybe some leather but didn't have that kind of money to blow on it.
______________________
C230/6-speed/orion/C7/changer Feb delivery

young

no biggee...

MB-BOB

sk-mia, I've quietly watched this thread for a couple days now. Just so there is no doubt, here are some reasons (objective and otherwise) why I don’t like the BMW 3-series (purely my opinion), and it doesn't have anything to do with the insignificant color of door handles:

1) Ancient engine design… People on this site deride American cars, but at least AMPOS GM/Ford haven’t produced an inline 6-cylinder motor in decades. Think about it. Inline engines are an example of obsolete design, regardless of how “fine” they run. After 80 years of development, an inline motor should run smooth. An I-6 reminds me of my first car, a 1970 Plym. Duster. I didn’t consider spending $35-40 Large on any European car until MB went to a V-6 in its new C-Class.
2) Open the hood on a 3-series and understand why you never want to have an accident with one. That long motor less than 2 inches from the grill precludes even 5mph fender benders.
3) Obsolete Styling… The wheel packages on BMWs are their high point. Imagine a 3-series on blocks, minus the wheels. What are you left with? A long hooded (dictated by I-6 packaging) block-faced car with tacked-on bumpers reminiscent of a 1976 BMW 320i. Nothing original since then. Minor facelifts only. That signature “hockey stick roofline” is “classic” to some, but it means nothing to me AFTER 25 years. The car Rags call it "timeless design" which is a code word for pretty in spite of its age. (D ick Clark, Harrison Ford and Sean Connery are described in entertainment Mags as "timelessly handsome," too, but there's no doubt what is meant by the reference. BMW is riding on its laurels, rather than being innovative. My opinion, so deal with it. Just realize by contrast that there is nothing "derivative" in the styling of the current C-Class. It looks nothing like the 190E, or the W202 that preceded it. Nuf said.
4) I drive 15-miles to work each day among 30-40 BMW 3-series. Two thirds of these Bimmers are driven by bleach-blonde, bullet-boobed secretaries more interested in applying their make-up at the stoplights than driving their cars. I see another C-Class sedan twice a week… maybe.
5) My neighbor has a 540i. His wife tells me he’s still in the doghouse for running over her flowerbed with his lawn mower while staring at the C320 in my driveway across the street. (His Bimmer cost more than my car, so I didn’t expect this kind of reaction, so don’t confuse my remark as MB snobbery.)
6) People in the auto industry I know and respect tell me BMWs habitually arrive with more delivery defects than MBs, and they depreciate much faster than MBs. After 30 years of catering to magazine fashion, my will is no longer bent by self-serving auto rags that confuse antiquated Bimmers and Porsche 911s with modern automobiles.
7) I have driven several BMWs. I drove a 330i (on several occasions) before buying my C320. Equally equipped, the 330i would cost just as much or more than my C320. Re-read items 1-6… no contest.
8) sk-mia, this is a Mercedes-Benz enthusiast website. I’m entitled to my opinions, just as you are. And, in my opinion, you shouldn’t expect any slack for your BMW on this MB website. I’m sorry for the tone of this post, but you will never find me on the Bimmerforums.org, praising a Mercedes-Benz. It's just bad form, asking for trouble. I hope you buy an MB so you can understand what you’re missing. But, if you don’t, then that’s fine, too.

C230K

Wll said, and there is nothing more to say.........