Drop-a-Daimler

Ok, whatever. We agree to disagree. I'll try not to act like I know everything there is to know about modding my car. Ok? But I still like comparing cars from the written reviews and doing a lot of street racing to see what's what. I didn't buy this car to drag race either but it just seems like everyone and the grandmother with a 330i or an M3 wants to run it around here so I am all to happy to oblige (probably too often). Sadly, i don't like BMWs much so I didn't get tone. The 335i could change my mind if I could find cheap one with a few miles on it. No luck yet.

FrankW

pigs will fly when the current 3.5 can juice out 330-350RWHP without going supercharging.

nlpamg

you sure they're racing you?

comparing cars from written reviews and street racing people (that you don't even if they're racing you) in a straight line really doesn't provide or prove much if anything.

nlpamg

combine that with no LSD...

FrankW

pigs will also fly if I can get 400rwhp with the C32 without doing crazy turbo ****... so yeah...i'm done with engine mods...

Drop-a-Daimler

Who knows. I know I was having fun though. Even got a few thumbs up. Counted down with one dude. I know he was going for it. Pig flying? Maybe but I'm still not ready to concede that the 3.5L MB motor can't make 330hp RW. The MKB kit is rated at just that. And my C-Class is (now) 200 lbs. lighter. There might be less TQ but still it would be close. What am I missing? Anyway, I've unwound and had a beer and am feeling better. Sorry for the newbie, know-it-all posturing -- I'll tone it down if that's the way it is around here -- but that attitude schit is still obnoxious. I'm an old geezer with high blood pressure.

rlee02135

how about with cams? how many hp is Vadim pushing?

FrankW

330hp is CRANK HORSEPOWER...not REAR WHEEL HORSEPOWER. rwhp=rear wheel horse power hense when pigs fly. I'm only getting 351rwhp/354rwtq for your info. calculate the 16% drivetrain lost on auto on dynapack.

FrankW

the cam, headers, and retune...maybe another 35-40rwhp. still 10 less than 400, but it's just my guess. still waiting for AMG-jerry to post his results. don't remember if Vadim has the cam. I hope Jerry pushes 390+ to the RW tho.

I know Jerry/silvaC32's stage 2 which was the same setup as Vadim's was around 385rwhp with shot of nitrous, but that's also with his more restrictive exhaust.

even MKB with a new camshaft, pulley and their own tune only rated 426hp by themselves. more aggressive tune can do better, but as for how much...no clue.

Drop-a-Daimler

Right, sorry, not RW. I was trying (poorly) to argue that although the 335i is underrated and makes more like 330bhp, the 3.5L MB is also underrated and could get that same 330bhp without NOS or FI. H*ll it's got more displacement and a great tranny with full lock-up. All it needs is some cams, headers (maybe hi-flow cats) and a good tune. But I should probably shut up now -- I just can't.

nlpamg

drexappeal

Wow, after reading all the newest posts in this thread. I now feel like I've gotten stupider...Damn, I have based on just typing the word "stupider"!...

Okay, Drop-a-Daimler, all I have to say is "good luck" because you're definitely gonna need it. With all the aspirations you have to getting close to where a properly modded 335i...I'd suggest you take many of the advice of many of the people who have responded negatively to you in this thread. FrankW has one of the fastest C32's out there. Ask him or search for the mods he has...very few...but at the same time, it's the supercharged v6 engine. Another thing is, compared to the AMG engines, if you really intend on going the cheap route with your mods, I highly suggest never trying to outlast a 335i that is modded. It'll just bum you out and make you feel bad. Instead, how 'bout gaining some security in the fact that the 350 is a very nice engine and the w203 is a nice looking car and not giving a rats *** what the antagonistic dumb asses on the street (i.e. other cars) do to bate you into a "street race". At that point, if you buy into it, it just makes you as dumb as they are.

Drop-a-Daimler

Oh schit, I'm busted. I am going to try to squeeze in a day at our strip (Maryland International Raceway) to see what she'll do straight out. I'd like to wait until the pipes come in but since that is now mid September sometime I guess I'll have to run it with the stock (heavier?) muffler. I'll post the time slip here. If I run in the 13's and break 100 I'll be pretty happy. A mid 13 at anything over 102 would be great! That's my goal right now anyway. But the pipes might be on for our track day at Summit Point. It'll be close. I'll get a chance to see how she stands up to a lot of other cars there though. My friends I am going with will have an '07 Solstice GXP (all stock plus roll bar), a '99 Mustang GT (blown 9psi Vortec), and a 2002 M5 (stock V8 with some very sticky Proxes tires) but there should be plenty of other cars to chase as it has been sold out for a month now. I'll leave the chronic at home though . As for the 335i, well I don't think I ever said I can get it anywhere near a properly modded 335i but I would like to get it close to a stocker. Especially if that means 300 hp at the crank. If they really are pulling more like 330bhp then I don't have the budget for that. Maybe a Sneaky Pete? And for street racing? I just can't help myself. I need a 12-step program.

FrankW

as I said, tons of BMW enthusiast has already dynoed their auto or manual 335i. they range in the 270-280rwhp range which means 330hp crank at least.

Drop-a-Daimler

Here we go again, huh! Here's some more magazine racing for you'all to ruminate on. And I am talking about a stock 335i Sedan here and I know there are a lot of modded BMWs out there but by the same token they don't always expect a modded Mercedes to roll up next to them. So this is for the old accountant who got a big bonus last year. And I'm headed to the track soon--but not today--so all I can do right now is play with some numbers in the interim. At the risk of even more silly ridicule for, of all things, reading what the press write about new cars and using some of what's left of my addled brain, some basic math (again, usually poorly) and even more basic racing tools (and probably too many commas splices and run on sentences), I will propose the question more formally in a thread of its own [ or not ]. I am not saying I know this all to be true, I am just supposing and listening to see where people think I have missed the boat. And the 335i seems like a good candidate to try to match considering it is the top non-M 3-series and the C350 is the current top non-AMG C-Class. So it seems like a logical match-up on par with the Mustang-Camaro rivalry of the late 60s all the way through the 90s. Now it seems to be 3-Series/C-Class/A4. Here it is: all a W203 3.5L Sport needs to do is make an extra 34hp at the rear wheels and lose 100 lbs. of dead weight to match the average performance of a stock BMW 335i Sedan. I know, I know, I should put a brick on the gas peddle and jump out.

It sounds crazy, I know, and many here have told me so on numerous occasions, but the numbers seem to say it's true. Here's how I came up with that outlandish statement. Using SpeedWorld's online calculator for elapsed times, the BMW is making 307hp at the rear wheels and 362hp at the crank. That is supported by all the comments that the 335i is underrated by all the dynos out there and makes "more like 300hp at the rear wheels". And at 362bhp, it may well be even more underrated than people think but their calculator may assume more than the average frictional loss for the drive train. By the exact same calculator and the same data the Mercedes is making 255hp at the rear wheels (and 301hp at the crank but again, that may be high). So, using elapsed times (where most seem to agree that the C350 does a 14.2 and the 335i does a 13.5), the 335i is making about 52 more rear wheel horsepower (307 - 255). Lightening the Mercedes by 100 lbs means you will then run a 14.0 at 101mph with the same stock motor. So at 100 lbs lighter you need only to make 289hp at the rear wheels for that same now lighter car to turn a the BMW's E/T of 13.5. So all you need to do is lighten your car by 100 lbs and make 34hp more than stock (289 - 255) and you will theoretically be matching the 335i Sedan in straight line performance from a stoplight up to at least 105mph. That comes out to making about 12% more power over stock for the Mercedes. That's not that hard to do is it? That's a chip, headers, a good filter and decent exhaust isn't it? H*ll, good shorty headers and a chip should be worth at least 10% by themselves. In my quest to increase the performance of my C350 (on a budget), I have removed my resonator and spare tire. I also plan on switching to a lightweight battery and a performance muffler which is a good bit lighter. The resonator and spare shed almost 60 lbs, the battery sheds another 15 lbs. and the muffler might save another 20 lbs. Maybe I need to lose 5 lbs. too then. But that would be my 100 lbs.

The one thing a lot of people are missing in this equation is not the fact that the 335i is underrated, that's been made clear, but by using the exact same math and racing tools, the W203 C350 is similarly underrated (if not more so).

Here's the numbers I used in case I am again mistaken:

2007 335i Sedan (R&T)
Curb weight 3616
w/ 200 lbs. driver 3816
Trap speed 104.5
E/T 13.5
Rear wheel hp 307

2007 C350 Sport (R&T)
Curb weight 3495
w/ 200 lbs. driver 3695
Trap speed 100.3
E/T 14.2
Rear wheel hp 255

So the answer appears to be "Yes if the C350 can drop 100 lbs. and add 34hp it can match the acceleration of a stock 2007 BMW 335i." What am I missing? One last note, most of the stock 335i cars run an average of 13.6 at 104 and most of the stock C350s run an average of 14.3 at 99. That means the difference is probably slightly less, more like 50hp at the rear wheels (250 vs 300 on the nose). What that also means is that if you were to lose the 100 lbs. you would only have to go from 250 to 282 at the rear wheels.

rlee02135

take out the rear seats, passenger seat, spare tire, radio...

that should be a good 200 lbs.

or just give up and go FI

Drop-a-Daimler

Yeah, and a S/C would be great but not needed based on the numbers. And that's keeping the kids and old lady seats too. All I need is a good set of headers which is probably $4K less than an S/C installed (if someone decided to even make one for the 3.5L) and a lot easier on my non-AMG head gaskets too!

rlee02135

headers can be custom made. pricey, buy can be done.

maybe the c230 (2.5L) Kleemann headers can fit...they are based on the same engine.

match those with racing cats and larger SS piping, then get another SI tune.

Drop-a-Daimler

Now we're talking! Sadly, I called Kleeman trying to get a set and they said they don't fit. They said they have prototyped a set of SLK headers that were made to fit but "major" modifications were needed. Read as: $$$.

rlee02135

yep, the Kleemann headers will fit.

Drop-a-Daimler

I read that too and that's exactly why I called them. It all sounded great. But the Kleeman rep said over the phone when I call to order the part that they have M272 headers for the SLK350 and not the C350. So maybe that's what they are referring to. I asked about the C350 and they said one of their guys had modded a set of SLK350 headers to fit a C350 but they were"heavily modded." It's just like the Remus exhaust website for C350 exhaust, you go there and it all looks good (it even says it fits the '07 C350 which it doesn't) but when I called them to order them they said that web page refers to the '08 W204 C350 (I know it says dual but it shows and older car with single). How fair is that, you can't even buy a W204 and they have a dual set out for them. But the Remus guy was cool and checked and found the C320 muffler would fit. So you definitely have to read between the lines. I am finding that a lot, there is a lot of stuff where everyone say "Oh yeah, any W203 part will fit" and when you dig deeper it won't.

FrankW

god you're hopeless...

look at the trap speed. it's a clear indicator that the 335 are in the 330hp range. with the amount you are willing to spent you'll never catch them.

FYI, mufflers are for sound...you get at most 3-5hp out of it which is insignificant. The wheel you want to get (Bremma) will slow your car down. coilovers are too expensive yet you want to spent $1500 plus for 10hp on the headers. with the headers at most you'll get are around 290 crank and tha'ts being optimistic.

In order for your C350 AUTO to make 289rwhp you will need at least 350hp at the crank given AUTO has around 17-18% loss. How are you going to make extra 90hp from just ECU, HEADERS, and Exhaust is beyond me. without looking through old threads, I'm pretty sure the stock C350 dyno around 220rwhp, so to go from 220 to 289 that's 69rwhp...you do the math. oh wait...you suck at math according to yourself.

e1000

hate to say it but Frank is right. .7s in the 1/4mi is a healthy difference. Add to all this, after you've dumped all the time, money, and research to gain that power, the guy in the 335i will slap on a procede and leave us in the dust. The only hope we have is that he blows his fuel pump

FrankW

IMO just be happy with what you have. spending money just so you can be "as fast as the next guy" is the stupidest thing to do.

nlpamg