C230 Sport Coup

There's dozens of thread on this...effects w203, w209, and w211,
many threads in the C32 section as well.

mtnman82

I spent a few hours searching yesterday and found some information, but nothing conclusive ... I thought it might be nice to have a thread with this info readily available.

I'm wondering how to identify the 'suspect' Valeo radiator (I have an '03 c230 w/automatic and want to know what I have in it). I've found threads mentioning a sticker on the top of the radiator, but then others mentioning they had the Valeo and it didn't have a sticker on the top (I don't see a sticker on mine).

I've also seen mentioned that the 'suspect' Valeo radiators are constructed a certain way, but could not find anywhere how they were constructed or differences in construction.

I've also seen mentioned that the Valeo radiator is mounted different than the Behr ...

So, I'm wondering if there is a definitive way for all of us to tell if we have a Valeo radiator or a Behr, or even an updated Valeo (vs. the older 'defective' unit)?

Thanks in advance!

treiberg

I have an early 2003 C230 that falls into one of the model groups of cars that potentially has these faulty Valeo radiators - resulting in possibly leaking coolant into transmission which will eventually cause big problems and lead to needing a new transmission if left unresolved.

My question is - How many onwers out there actually experienced this? It looks like maybe very few forum members have ever seen this, maybe two or three. I wonder how rare this is. If I knew there is a 10% chance or greater that this failure could happen, I'd probably go pay the $200 for the updated radiator (Behr) and install it - transmissions cost much more. However, if the likelihood of a problem is much lower, let's say 0.5%, then I probably wouldn't worry too much about it.

Is there any way to get data like this? MB proably has it.

If any of you have actually experienced this failure, please respond and let us know about it. Did you have to replace the transmission, or did you catch it in time? What were the symtpoms?

Thanks for any insight from those who are knowledgeable on this...

C230 Sport Coup

Go the TSB sticky....you will find what you seek.

https://mbworld.org/forums/showpost....9&postcount=59

treiberg

Yes, I've read that post before, and it is helpful. However, I was trying to get an idea of how many people actually have had this occur.

pookie

I got my transmission replaced about 1000 miles ago. Thread here: https://mbworld.org/forums/mercedes-tech-talk/191679-transmission-contaminated-coolant.html

C230 Sport Coup

If you search you'll plenty of people who had this.
A great deal seem to be in the C32 forum.

Kar don

Had the glycol contamination in my C-class. Dealer only changed the radiator and flushed the cooling sys and trans fluid. Did anyone have the same outcome or did they replace the trans?

C230 Sport Coup

Thats a drag.
Search the forum, lots of people in the AMG forums with this.
Go to the sticky on service bulletins there's a long description and the actual bulletin in pdf.

mtnman82

Kar don - this is the one thing I'm really nervous about on my '03 C230 ss. Can you tell us the year/model of you C class? Thanks!

Kar don

03 C320 4matic, built 03/03

C230 Sport Coup

Don't be nervous, just determine which one you have and replace it if it's a Valeo.
https://mbworld.org/forums/showpost....9&postcount=59

electromethod

What if the glycol test comes back negative and you have a Valeo radiator. Do you pretty much have to pay out of pocket to replace a poorly built radiator? Has anyone gotten their dealer to change it when the test results are normal?

mtnman82

Thanks, C230, but even that post is somewhat confusing. Bob posts a pic of the Behr (good) radiator, talks about looking at how the tranny fluid connectors are attached to the radiator, and then comments that the TSB notes the problem is really due to how the end tanks are attached as that's what the (crappy) pics in the TSB show. The Behr radiator pictured in Bob's post shows the same type of crimped on end tank shown as the 'old' (i.e. problem) method in the TSB used on the Valeo ... ?

My radiator doesn't have a tag on it, so I'm looking for some other identifying feature. Does the Valeo radiator have different connections for attaching the tranny fluid hoses?

Here's a pic of my radiator on the passenger side, from the inside of the engine compartment. Maybe someone can identify it? Notice the crimp on the end tank isn't the 'fingers' (or maybe I can't see the crimp in this view??).

mckay

Just to be clear:

Those with a manual transmission have nothing to worry about, right?

mleskovar

My radiator was replaced 1 1/2 years into warranty. It was leaking glycol externally from the radiator around the connector to the transmission line. No glycol contamination when I had the fluid analyzed years later.

mtnman82

McKay - you are correct. Those lucky folks with manual tranny's won't see this problem.

If anyone has pics or identifying features of the Valeo or Behr radiators, please post up! It would be nice to have a definitive place to look for folks to identify what they have.

C230 Sport Coup

Yeh, the one thing I've never been able to get is a pic of the defective rad.
I went to the dealer, and had a look at a Behr, snapped a few pics, plus some I found on ebay.
BTW the logo was on the bottom, had to pull the pan down.

Obviously I was very happy to find I didn't have the bad one.

mab01uk

mtnman82 the crimping on my radiator end tank looks exactly like yours from inside the engine compartment (2001 C200K in the UK) if you look carefully the metal strip just showing is actually a wavy shape not straight, also if you can see a large aperture each end of the bonnet / hood slam panel inboard of the headlights, get down low and shine in a torch from the front of the car and you should see the metal crimping fully uncovered by any other plastic mouldings each side.
The black plastic end tanks on my radiator appear to be crimped on to the rad with a continuous wavy silver metal strip all round the edges of the tanks. Each crimp is indented in a semi circular shape and is about 10mm wide with a small aperture in the base of each crimp where the metal has been formed.
Like you I have noticed the suspect Valeo crimping shown in the Mercedes TSB Fig.2 shows small metal square shaped crimp tabs about 5mm wide spaced around the edges (like the Behr rad photo) and bent over to crimp the tank in position.
Therefore does anyone know if wavy shaped crimping is ok and means you don't have an old Valeo rad.......also why does the Behr rad photo show the suspect square crimping if thats how the dealers identify what are the potential Valeo rad problem cars?
As has already been said if anyone can post a picture of an old Valeo rad it would be a great help to many people.

pookie

replaced.........and it is happening again.

C230 Sport Coup

You had 2 Valeo's or one of the Behr's failed?

My most humble and simple advise to anyone who's truly concerned about having a Valeo,
do what I did.

Go to the dealer, ask for a radiator from the parts dept.
Show them the TSB, explain your concern,
take it outside, open your hood and compare the 2.

And as I knew, so shall you my Benz drivin' compadre's.

pookie

Not sure if they did replace it with Behr. All I know is the transmission is doing the same thing as before in less than 3 months after replacement (skipping, shaking, etc).

I'll look at the papers later and see what parts they replaced exactly (probably just scan and post since it was a lot of stuff). The positive thing about this experience is the fact I have the extended warranty. The costs were 10k+.

NG C-Klasse

So, we've all heard this too many times to count. And being that my 203 was a lower millage car I didn't think I'd see the problem for a while if at all since it doesn't strike everyone. Haha...right.

I noticed the shifting started to get rough at times..thought it might just need an additive...that helped, but after a while it got worse, then sometimes no issues at all. Soon the car would put itself in limp mode and sometimes even go into neutral or not want to shift. I was starting to think that I was going to have to suck it up and take the car into Mercedes for the big ol' replacement of the radiator, torque converter, and mission. But me being the guy I am and a decent mechanic (both cars and aircraft) I decided to look into0 the problem myself.

I first ran a scan to check codes and came up with several. Most of the codes were triggered by the faulty shifting and were not really an underlying problem. It was more of a lack of pressure during lower temps. Many times the car would be fine after it got up to a better temp. First things first...pull the radiator shroud and see if we had "the demon"...sure enough VALEO!!! Ugh..so, I went to Performance Radiator and picked up an aftermarket radiator for like $200 (their own brand). It was a direct drop in replacement. I also, of course, picked up radiator fluid mix and some water wetter to fill it up (as well as a flush). Removing the radiator was pretty straight forward, far easier than I was expecting and way easier than some of the cars I've had to work on in the past. The new radiator went in as easy as the Valeo came out. I flushed it, rinsed it, and filled it. One problem down...one to go.

The transmission. I did a mission fluid change to at least get the car drivable (did a engine oil/filter change too since I had the car a bit apart, the old way from underneath..not afraid to get dirty). I made an appointment with a local tranny shop for a full machine flush...the kind that fully flushes the entire system and cleans it as well. They actually cycled fluid through it about 4 times (till it was full clear) before doing a final fill with fresh mission fluid. Good thing I bought 2 cases for good measure.

The moral of the story?? I did it myself for minimal cost (under $400 parts and labor since I did the labor minus the mission flush) and there was NO damage to the transmission or torque converter (no CEL and codes fully cleared). The car feels brand new again..like amazing. So just because this happens and your warranty is out doesn't mean you necessarily have to fork over the big bucks. Changing out the radiator is simple and cheap and getting a full machine flush done is well worth the potential fixing of the whole issue in the first place. It's worth a shot...it worked for me and saved my wallet!!!

mleskovar

Great post, hope the fix continues to work.

NG C-Klasse

Well, I did the fix a few months ago and forgot to post it up. It still runs perfectly. In fact it feels better than when we first bought it (2nd owner with 7k miles). Previous owner was a senior citizen couple...so I doubt they tested its' abilities..haha. I had to reset the ECU to make the car drive how we wanted it to respond. The car was driving like someone old had driven it..pretty funny actually since it was entirely true.