How much HP can you make out of a C230 Kompressor?
12-12-2008, 01:32 PM
#51
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C230 Kompressor Sport Sedan
This article is soo relevant to this conversation.
http://digg.com/general_sciences/Sar...gnose_dementia
/not sarcasm
http://digg.com/general_sciences/Sar...gnose_dementia
/not sarcasm
12-12-2008, 01:43 PM
#52
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Las Vegas, NV
Posts: 312
Likes: 0
Received 3 Likes
on
2 Posts
C230 Kompressor Sport Sedan
IMO, this is probably the best writeup you will ever find about the m271 engine (apart from actual MB documentation.)
From this link:
http://www.mbclub.co.uk/forums/showp...20&postcount=1
R2D2 if you come across this page, you are the man for putting this type of effort in this!!
From this link:
http://www.mbclub.co.uk/forums/showp...20&postcount=1
R2D2 if you come across this page, you are the man for putting this type of effort in this!!
People are forever asking about how to mod their M271 C180 Kompressor so I thought some work was required to help guide us all! Hope this helps someone.
The Complete M271 Engine thread.
As you know a number of people regularly ask about the M271 engine on this and other forums. Mercedes made this engine in such away as it can be configured to provide different outputs and therefore has been used in many different guises and models.
BACKGROUND
The new W204 C Class uses the engine as does the W203 C Class. But Mercedes also used the engine in the CLK W209, W211 E Class and SLK.
You may be surprised to learn that a derivative of the M271 was used in Formula 3.
For those who are interested in how our engine is used in F3 read on. For those only interested in their M271 then scroll down a bit.
Mercedes engined F3 car (2006)
In the five years since Mercedes-Benz began its involvement in Formula Three, it has developed into the formula's most dominant engine supplier. Its engines, which are built and serviced by H.W.A GmbH, have so far contributed to a total of four drivers' and four teams' championship titles in the Formula Three Euroseries and British Formula Three Championship.
The H.W.A Mercedes-AMG M271 was based on a 1.8 litre 4-cylinder from the C-Klasse, bored out to the regulation 2.0 litre capacity.[4] Formula Three engine regulations demand a naturally-aspirated, 4-stroke, 4-cylinder, production-based specification, with a capacity of not more than 2000cc.[5] The M271 made its competitive debut in the 2002 German Formula 3 Championship in two of Mücke Motorsport's three Dallara F302 chassis, driven by Markus Winkelhock and Marcel Lasse.[6] Winkelhock achieved Mercedes' first F3 win at the Nürburgring in August 2002.[7]
In 2003, Mercedes expanded its Formula Three program by supplying three teams in the inaugural year of the F3 Euroseries. Its engine powered the seven cars of Mücke Motorsport, Team Kolles, and ASM Formule 3.[8] Speiss-Opel was dominant, thanks in part to Ryan Briscoe and Prema Powerteam, but Mercedes was winning by the eighth round.[9] Its most notable win was provided by Christian Klien at Zandvoort in the non-championship Marlboro Masters.[10]
Between 2004 and 2006, Mercedes-powered cars have dominated the drivers' and teams' championships in the Euroseries, due in part to its close relationship with ASM Formule 3, which is one of France's most successful F3 teams. It has brought drivers' titles for Jamie Green, Lewis Hamilton, and Paul di Resta.[11] 2006 also saw Mercedes' first participation in the British F3 Championship, when it partnered with Double R Racing, co-owned by Kimi Räikkönen, and two other teams.[12] Double R Racing's lead driver, Mike Conway, dominated the championship.[13] In the 2007 British F3 season, Mercedes now powers the majority of the Championship field. (Wikipedia)
HISTORY
The Mercedes-Benz M271 engine is a straight-4 automobile piston engine family used in the 2000s.
All M271 engines are built in Bad Cannstatt, Germany. The family has a cast iron engine block and aluminum DOHC cylinder heads. It uses SFI fuel injection, has 4 valves per cylinder with variable valve timing, is supercharged and intercooled, and features fracture-split forged steel connecting rods.
The E18 is a 1.8 L (1796 cc) version. Bore is 82 mm and stroke is 85 mm. Output ranges from 143 hp ECE (105 kW) at 5500 rpm to 192 hp ECE (141 kW) at 5800 rpm. A version running on natural gas was introduced in the German market in 2002.
VERSIONS
The new W204 uses the M271 in the C180k and the C200k. In these guises the engine produces 154bhp and 181bhp.
The W203 Class and CLK, E Class and SLK used different versions which in 180 guise produce 143bhp, in 200 produce 163bhp and in 230 products 193bhp.
WHATS THE DIFFERENCE
Many people have asked so how do Mercedes set and control the power output of what is basically the same engine in order to give it 5 different power levels.
Some of us have trailed parts lists in order to find out the differences.
Miro came up with this research:
“C180K, C200K conversion to C230K with M271 series 240, 246, 248
After many hours of sifting through the data and checking 6 VINS against each other I can suggest the following findings about the M271.
* If the engine is 2005 spec then it will be specially upgraded already with low noise parts that were recently introduced.
* In all M271 2005 the 5 speed transmission is identical
* In all M271 the crankcase and 5 speed auto slip ring are identical
* all results exclude CGI and SLK for now.
C180K, C200K and C230K differ in the following ways
---------------------------------------------------
- piston
- supercharger (only 2 models - one for 230K and one for others.
- ECU (engine control unit)
- Some differences in intercooler and hoses are possible with year of build.
….. There are two SuperChargers, two piston types and 3 ECU. You can make 3 variants with 2 x 2 combinations. Obviously there is no logical variant in the ECU as it is specific for a task (but there are 3 versions)
I believe that in developer mode you can reset the engine type of the ECU.
PISTON SC
Low Low
High Low
High High
This is not the real matrix but I am postulating that these compression combinations make the 3 engine types.”
My own research has confirmed that 180 and 200 versions use Eaton M45 superchargers MB part number A271 090 2080 whereas 230 versions use A271 090 2181.
Se97mlm added: “180k and 200k are identical, it's just the software in the ECU that limits the output (and maybe a pulley for the SC). That's why they are called internally m271 and m271red (red for reduced output)
The 230k engine is called m271evo and has the different pistons etc.”
The reason C230 version has different pistons is because the three main variants have different compression ratio.
C180 has a compression ratio of 10.2:1
C200 has a compression ratio of 9.5:1
C230 has a compression ratio of 8.7:1
Given that the each version has the same bore and stroke (82x85mm) the different compression ratios are achieved by the use of different pistons.
“Capacity usually means theoretical swept volume ( By the piston) bore X stroke. Each engine is 'blown' by the supercharger, but typically if you want to blow harder for greater output you need to lower the compression ratio to stop pre ignition Ah. So changing the CR isn't the answer in itself. To elaborate a bit, the compression ratio is the swept volume divided by the unswept volume.
If you take two engines, identical apart from the conrod length, they will have the same capacity (swept volume) but the engine with the shorter conrods will have a lower compression ratio as it will leave a larger unswept volume.”
MODDING THE M271 IN ORDER TO GET MORE HP.
I have tried to mod my M271 and have tried numerous products and others, particularly in the US, have tried other products to basically get around MBs limiting of power outputs to different model designations and the remainder of this diatribe concentrates on this area.
Back to Basics….power losses.
Every M271 is connected to a gearbox and 97% of those gearboxes are the automatic version. So to make things easy I’m only looking at auto gearbox losses.
Really the engine outputs of 143bhp ,163bhp and 193bhp are a bit meaningless as its Rear Wheel HP that counts (RWHP), however manufacturers prefer to quote the higher figure rather than the useful and measurable one.
In the past great discussion has happened about how much bhp is lost on a Mercedes trasmission. Suggestions have been made that it is as low as 10% or as high as 25% (a figure many dyno outfits use-I wonder why). Well the answer for the M271 engine with the auto gearbox is 18%!
How am I so sure, well first of all-there will be differences from car to car, oil to oil, mileage to mileage but I have had my car dyno 3 times and more importantly US C230 drivers have dynoed their cars many times and the answer most frequently comes out at about 18%.
For example:
“Iceman in the US reported:
Here is the result of the dyno of his C230k. (Crank 193bhp Stock)
Max Power was: 160.5 @ 5800 RPM
Max Torque was: 165.1 @ 3600 RPM
All the runs where made at 4th gear with 5800 rpm. The car only has an ITG air filter. Other than that it is stock. The runs where made with the stock 17" wheels. Little dissapointed with the results.”
From now on I’m taking transmission losses as 18%. This means that
C180. 143bhp –18% = 117.2 RWHP
C200 163bhp –18% = 133.6 RWHP
C230 193bhp –18% = 158.2 RWHP
PERFORMANCE FIGURES
Mercedes claim the following for standard automatic cars.
C180 0-60 9.9 secs Top Speed 138mph
C200 0-60 9.4 secs Top Speed 144mph
C230 0-60 8.9 secs Top Speed 148mph
Urban Fuel consumption is supposed to be 24.1mpg, 23.3mpg and 21.4mpg (LOL)
Those of you who read my ramblings know that I have been exploring modding the M271 engine for ages.
I previously wrote about a year ago:
“My C180k is supposed to produce 143bhp and do 0-60 in 10 according to Whatcars measurements of their test car.
I had my car dynoed and was surprised to find I already had 142bhp at the wheels which assuming 22% transmission losses on my auto (Wrong! As discussed above) means my car now has about 182bhp at the crank.(Wrong! As above)
I have just added a Carlsson Blue Air filter which helps the thing breath and I've started running it on Super Unleaded which also helps. On Monday I am having the ECU remapped by Upsolute who have promised a further 17bhp which would take me over the 200bhp mark.
Given that a C230k (1.8 M271) has 193bhp and does 60 in 8.4secs (auto) I expect that my car should get to the low 8's by Monday night.
Watch this space! I have had my car remapped by Upsolute and also tried Carlsson Filters and Brabus exhausts and filters. I also have sprintbooster fitted.
My conclusions are that chipping adds a little more driveability and perhaps a little more "smoothness" but thats all, talk of 20bhp, 30bhp even 40bhp is all rubbish. I have now had my remapped to the last w203 software issue and can't feel any difference.
Having tried 3 different airfilters. K and N oils up your MAS causing it to fail. I had my car dynoed with a standard airfilter and a K and N and there was NO difference at all. The Carlsson one if just a french made K and N. I now run the OEM one but change it every year.
I have tried AMG and Brabus exhausts. Both added noise but NO power increase.
Sprintbooster. Is excellent it adds no BHP but makes the car feel much quicker through the gears.
I'll get my car dynoed some day with SB fitted and see how the torque line looks because it goes a lot better than it did without the SB.
The other M271 engine mods are headers (manifold) of which Kleeman makes a gorgeous looking one for £750. Unfortunately it discolours the first time you use it and therefore losses its looks and if you read the kleemann website it isn't liscensed for road use and is used at your risk. Other headers exist but I've not met anyone with one fitted.
Kleemann Performance Kits for the M271
http://www.kleemann.dk/site/Main/per...erformancekits
Note the C230 M271 isn’t offered anymore.
Schrick (sp) make cams that give your engine more top end but less mid range and sometimes muck up your idle.
Several firms make pulley kits that the US forums seem to question the worth of. If they work then why are there always used sets available on ebay and US forums.
MKB do a pulley, intercooler, chip, filter kit for about 100,000.......
Other useful links
http://www.brabus.com/index_en.html
http://www.vaeth.com/tuning.php
http://www.mkb-power.de/
http://www.carlsson.de/commstore/com...s.html?P1=news
EXTRA INFO
It is alleged that the C180 runs about 6-7PSI boost on the kompressor and that the C230 version runs 11PSI , therefore if you swapped the kompressor for the c230 version you may get more boost and therefore more power- or you may blow your engine up because the compression ratio is too high and you end up running it too lean unless you address fuelling (ECU) and pistons (Compression Ratio). Nobody knows coz no body has done it yet!
You could put a smaller pulley on your existing kompressor. This is not easy and requires a pulley puller that heats the pulley up to 300c so it expands enough to be pulled off.
Stock Supercharger Pulley — about 2.78 in diameter
2.50 in diameter would speed up compressor 10 %
2.36 in diameter would speed up compressor 15 %
Some say they work. Some say they work if you have your ECU done to increase fuelling –Others say that making the kompressor spin faster, moves it to a less efficient part of its kompressor function and that it ultimately makes less power and wears everything out quicker.
Others have tried to add a bigger intercooler-several attempts at that reduced power by about 5bhp.
So what do you do:
1. Well you either do new new cams, new pistons, new kompressor, new pulleys, remapped ECU, new filters plus new injectors for fuelling you might end up with 240bhp absolute tops-if you can get it all to work. Frankly buying a C32 would be cheaper.
2. You remap it, sprintboost it, put a nice clean MB airfilter in and run it on Vmax and get a nice smooth-bit faster M271.
3.......or you accept what you’ve got and enjoy it!
A year ago I bought a Gtech and performance measured my car when it had K and N, Brabus exhaust, 102 ron fuel, Upsolute remap and it was going well.
I measured 0-60 in 8.4 seconds and dynoed my car at 142 RWHp or 170bhp instead of the 143bhp I’m supposed to have at the crank not at the rear wheels.
Graham C230k said the following:
“If you are already up 27BHP, why not be happy with that?
You did buy the C180 again, which you knew to be the lowest powered model and I understand factors influence that choice. However, you made that choice and you are still from what you say ~20% up - that's very good indeed. You could have paid £500 for a remap that did nothing, had the dyno and thought wow - I'm 20% up - £500 well spent.
You are 20% up and have a clear conscience telling the insurance company the car is stock!
I see why you have 193 BHP in your sights, but maybe now is the time to be content with the good fortune you already have.”
Graham may well be right.
I have had my car software updated by MB which will rid me off my Upsolute remap, I’m running 95 ron fuel and standard airfilter and exhaust. I’ve even temporarily removed my Sprintbooster. So today my car is standard……….
My new G tech Pro is here (I sold my old one) and for your amusement I’m going to test my car with all mods removed and then with Sprintbooster back on as I miss it being there!
I’ll let you know how I get on.
I hope this load of information helps the M271 modders or would be modders out there!
Let us know how you get on!
Good Luck
R2
(All of the above is my opinion and you act on any of it at your own risk!-You’ve been warned!)
PS. This has taken ages to compile so don't be too hard on my ramblings.
The Complete M271 Engine thread.
As you know a number of people regularly ask about the M271 engine on this and other forums. Mercedes made this engine in such away as it can be configured to provide different outputs and therefore has been used in many different guises and models.
BACKGROUND
The new W204 C Class uses the engine as does the W203 C Class. But Mercedes also used the engine in the CLK W209, W211 E Class and SLK.
You may be surprised to learn that a derivative of the M271 was used in Formula 3.
For those who are interested in how our engine is used in F3 read on. For those only interested in their M271 then scroll down a bit.
Mercedes engined F3 car (2006)
In the five years since Mercedes-Benz began its involvement in Formula Three, it has developed into the formula's most dominant engine supplier. Its engines, which are built and serviced by H.W.A GmbH, have so far contributed to a total of four drivers' and four teams' championship titles in the Formula Three Euroseries and British Formula Three Championship.
The H.W.A Mercedes-AMG M271 was based on a 1.8 litre 4-cylinder from the C-Klasse, bored out to the regulation 2.0 litre capacity.[4] Formula Three engine regulations demand a naturally-aspirated, 4-stroke, 4-cylinder, production-based specification, with a capacity of not more than 2000cc.[5] The M271 made its competitive debut in the 2002 German Formula 3 Championship in two of Mücke Motorsport's three Dallara F302 chassis, driven by Markus Winkelhock and Marcel Lasse.[6] Winkelhock achieved Mercedes' first F3 win at the Nürburgring in August 2002.[7]
In 2003, Mercedes expanded its Formula Three program by supplying three teams in the inaugural year of the F3 Euroseries. Its engine powered the seven cars of Mücke Motorsport, Team Kolles, and ASM Formule 3.[8] Speiss-Opel was dominant, thanks in part to Ryan Briscoe and Prema Powerteam, but Mercedes was winning by the eighth round.[9] Its most notable win was provided by Christian Klien at Zandvoort in the non-championship Marlboro Masters.[10]
Between 2004 and 2006, Mercedes-powered cars have dominated the drivers' and teams' championships in the Euroseries, due in part to its close relationship with ASM Formule 3, which is one of France's most successful F3 teams. It has brought drivers' titles for Jamie Green, Lewis Hamilton, and Paul di Resta.[11] 2006 also saw Mercedes' first participation in the British F3 Championship, when it partnered with Double R Racing, co-owned by Kimi Räikkönen, and two other teams.[12] Double R Racing's lead driver, Mike Conway, dominated the championship.[13] In the 2007 British F3 season, Mercedes now powers the majority of the Championship field. (Wikipedia)
HISTORY
The Mercedes-Benz M271 engine is a straight-4 automobile piston engine family used in the 2000s.
All M271 engines are built in Bad Cannstatt, Germany. The family has a cast iron engine block and aluminum DOHC cylinder heads. It uses SFI fuel injection, has 4 valves per cylinder with variable valve timing, is supercharged and intercooled, and features fracture-split forged steel connecting rods.
The E18 is a 1.8 L (1796 cc) version. Bore is 82 mm and stroke is 85 mm. Output ranges from 143 hp ECE (105 kW) at 5500 rpm to 192 hp ECE (141 kW) at 5800 rpm. A version running on natural gas was introduced in the German market in 2002.
VERSIONS
The new W204 uses the M271 in the C180k and the C200k. In these guises the engine produces 154bhp and 181bhp.
The W203 Class and CLK, E Class and SLK used different versions which in 180 guise produce 143bhp, in 200 produce 163bhp and in 230 products 193bhp.
WHATS THE DIFFERENCE
Many people have asked so how do Mercedes set and control the power output of what is basically the same engine in order to give it 5 different power levels.
Some of us have trailed parts lists in order to find out the differences.
Miro came up with this research:
“C180K, C200K conversion to C230K with M271 series 240, 246, 248
After many hours of sifting through the data and checking 6 VINS against each other I can suggest the following findings about the M271.
* If the engine is 2005 spec then it will be specially upgraded already with low noise parts that were recently introduced.
* In all M271 2005 the 5 speed transmission is identical
* In all M271 the crankcase and 5 speed auto slip ring are identical
* all results exclude CGI and SLK for now.
C180K, C200K and C230K differ in the following ways
---------------------------------------------------
- piston
- supercharger (only 2 models - one for 230K and one for others.
- ECU (engine control unit)
- Some differences in intercooler and hoses are possible with year of build.
….. There are two SuperChargers, two piston types and 3 ECU. You can make 3 variants with 2 x 2 combinations. Obviously there is no logical variant in the ECU as it is specific for a task (but there are 3 versions)
I believe that in developer mode you can reset the engine type of the ECU.
PISTON SC
Low Low
High Low
High High
This is not the real matrix but I am postulating that these compression combinations make the 3 engine types.”
My own research has confirmed that 180 and 200 versions use Eaton M45 superchargers MB part number A271 090 2080 whereas 230 versions use A271 090 2181.
Se97mlm added: “180k and 200k are identical, it's just the software in the ECU that limits the output (and maybe a pulley for the SC). That's why they are called internally m271 and m271red (red for reduced output)
The 230k engine is called m271evo and has the different pistons etc.”
The reason C230 version has different pistons is because the three main variants have different compression ratio.
C180 has a compression ratio of 10.2:1
C200 has a compression ratio of 9.5:1
C230 has a compression ratio of 8.7:1
Given that the each version has the same bore and stroke (82x85mm) the different compression ratios are achieved by the use of different pistons.
“Capacity usually means theoretical swept volume ( By the piston) bore X stroke. Each engine is 'blown' by the supercharger, but typically if you want to blow harder for greater output you need to lower the compression ratio to stop pre ignition Ah. So changing the CR isn't the answer in itself. To elaborate a bit, the compression ratio is the swept volume divided by the unswept volume.
If you take two engines, identical apart from the conrod length, they will have the same capacity (swept volume) but the engine with the shorter conrods will have a lower compression ratio as it will leave a larger unswept volume.”
MODDING THE M271 IN ORDER TO GET MORE HP.
I have tried to mod my M271 and have tried numerous products and others, particularly in the US, have tried other products to basically get around MBs limiting of power outputs to different model designations and the remainder of this diatribe concentrates on this area.
Back to Basics….power losses.
Every M271 is connected to a gearbox and 97% of those gearboxes are the automatic version. So to make things easy I’m only looking at auto gearbox losses.
Really the engine outputs of 143bhp ,163bhp and 193bhp are a bit meaningless as its Rear Wheel HP that counts (RWHP), however manufacturers prefer to quote the higher figure rather than the useful and measurable one.
In the past great discussion has happened about how much bhp is lost on a Mercedes trasmission. Suggestions have been made that it is as low as 10% or as high as 25% (a figure many dyno outfits use-I wonder why). Well the answer for the M271 engine with the auto gearbox is 18%!
How am I so sure, well first of all-there will be differences from car to car, oil to oil, mileage to mileage but I have had my car dyno 3 times and more importantly US C230 drivers have dynoed their cars many times and the answer most frequently comes out at about 18%.
For example:
“Iceman in the US reported:
Here is the result of the dyno of his C230k. (Crank 193bhp Stock)
Max Power was: 160.5 @ 5800 RPM
Max Torque was: 165.1 @ 3600 RPM
All the runs where made at 4th gear with 5800 rpm. The car only has an ITG air filter. Other than that it is stock. The runs where made with the stock 17" wheels. Little dissapointed with the results.”
From now on I’m taking transmission losses as 18%. This means that
C180. 143bhp –18% = 117.2 RWHP
C200 163bhp –18% = 133.6 RWHP
C230 193bhp –18% = 158.2 RWHP
PERFORMANCE FIGURES
Mercedes claim the following for standard automatic cars.
C180 0-60 9.9 secs Top Speed 138mph
C200 0-60 9.4 secs Top Speed 144mph
C230 0-60 8.9 secs Top Speed 148mph
Urban Fuel consumption is supposed to be 24.1mpg, 23.3mpg and 21.4mpg (LOL)
Those of you who read my ramblings know that I have been exploring modding the M271 engine for ages.
I previously wrote about a year ago:
“My C180k is supposed to produce 143bhp and do 0-60 in 10 according to Whatcars measurements of their test car.
I had my car dynoed and was surprised to find I already had 142bhp at the wheels which assuming 22% transmission losses on my auto (Wrong! As discussed above) means my car now has about 182bhp at the crank.(Wrong! As above)
I have just added a Carlsson Blue Air filter which helps the thing breath and I've started running it on Super Unleaded which also helps. On Monday I am having the ECU remapped by Upsolute who have promised a further 17bhp which would take me over the 200bhp mark.
Given that a C230k (1.8 M271) has 193bhp and does 60 in 8.4secs (auto) I expect that my car should get to the low 8's by Monday night.
Watch this space! I have had my car remapped by Upsolute and also tried Carlsson Filters and Brabus exhausts and filters. I also have sprintbooster fitted.
My conclusions are that chipping adds a little more driveability and perhaps a little more "smoothness" but thats all, talk of 20bhp, 30bhp even 40bhp is all rubbish. I have now had my remapped to the last w203 software issue and can't feel any difference.
Having tried 3 different airfilters. K and N oils up your MAS causing it to fail. I had my car dynoed with a standard airfilter and a K and N and there was NO difference at all. The Carlsson one if just a french made K and N. I now run the OEM one but change it every year.
I have tried AMG and Brabus exhausts. Both added noise but NO power increase.
Sprintbooster. Is excellent it adds no BHP but makes the car feel much quicker through the gears.
I'll get my car dynoed some day with SB fitted and see how the torque line looks because it goes a lot better than it did without the SB.
The other M271 engine mods are headers (manifold) of which Kleeman makes a gorgeous looking one for £750. Unfortunately it discolours the first time you use it and therefore losses its looks and if you read the kleemann website it isn't liscensed for road use and is used at your risk. Other headers exist but I've not met anyone with one fitted.
Kleemann Performance Kits for the M271
http://www.kleemann.dk/site/Main/per...erformancekits
Note the C230 M271 isn’t offered anymore.
Schrick (sp) make cams that give your engine more top end but less mid range and sometimes muck up your idle.
Several firms make pulley kits that the US forums seem to question the worth of. If they work then why are there always used sets available on ebay and US forums.
MKB do a pulley, intercooler, chip, filter kit for about 100,000.......
Other useful links
http://www.brabus.com/index_en.html
http://www.vaeth.com/tuning.php
http://www.mkb-power.de/
http://www.carlsson.de/commstore/com...s.html?P1=news
EXTRA INFO
It is alleged that the C180 runs about 6-7PSI boost on the kompressor and that the C230 version runs 11PSI , therefore if you swapped the kompressor for the c230 version you may get more boost and therefore more power- or you may blow your engine up because the compression ratio is too high and you end up running it too lean unless you address fuelling (ECU) and pistons (Compression Ratio). Nobody knows coz no body has done it yet!
You could put a smaller pulley on your existing kompressor. This is not easy and requires a pulley puller that heats the pulley up to 300c so it expands enough to be pulled off.
Stock Supercharger Pulley — about 2.78 in diameter
2.50 in diameter would speed up compressor 10 %
2.36 in diameter would speed up compressor 15 %
Some say they work. Some say they work if you have your ECU done to increase fuelling –Others say that making the kompressor spin faster, moves it to a less efficient part of its kompressor function and that it ultimately makes less power and wears everything out quicker.
Others have tried to add a bigger intercooler-several attempts at that reduced power by about 5bhp.
So what do you do:
1. Well you either do new new cams, new pistons, new kompressor, new pulleys, remapped ECU, new filters plus new injectors for fuelling you might end up with 240bhp absolute tops-if you can get it all to work. Frankly buying a C32 would be cheaper.
2. You remap it, sprintboost it, put a nice clean MB airfilter in and run it on Vmax and get a nice smooth-bit faster M271.
3.......or you accept what you’ve got and enjoy it!
A year ago I bought a Gtech and performance measured my car when it had K and N, Brabus exhaust, 102 ron fuel, Upsolute remap and it was going well.
I measured 0-60 in 8.4 seconds and dynoed my car at 142 RWHp or 170bhp instead of the 143bhp I’m supposed to have at the crank not at the rear wheels.
Graham C230k said the following:
“If you are already up 27BHP, why not be happy with that?
You did buy the C180 again, which you knew to be the lowest powered model and I understand factors influence that choice. However, you made that choice and you are still from what you say ~20% up - that's very good indeed. You could have paid £500 for a remap that did nothing, had the dyno and thought wow - I'm 20% up - £500 well spent.
You are 20% up and have a clear conscience telling the insurance company the car is stock!
I see why you have 193 BHP in your sights, but maybe now is the time to be content with the good fortune you already have.”
Graham may well be right.
I have had my car software updated by MB which will rid me off my Upsolute remap, I’m running 95 ron fuel and standard airfilter and exhaust. I’ve even temporarily removed my Sprintbooster. So today my car is standard……….
My new G tech Pro is here (I sold my old one) and for your amusement I’m going to test my car with all mods removed and then with Sprintbooster back on as I miss it being there!
I’ll let you know how I get on.
I hope this load of information helps the M271 modders or would be modders out there!
Let us know how you get on!
Good Luck
R2
(All of the above is my opinion and you act on any of it at your own risk!-You’ve been warned!)
PS. This has taken ages to compile so don't be too hard on my ramblings.
12-12-2008, 01:45 PM
#53
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C230 Kompressor Sport Sedan
I particularly like this short answer to the question on this thread:
So what do you do:
1. Well you either do new new cams, new pistons, new kompressor, new pulleys, remapped ECU, new filters plus new injectors for fuelling you might end up with 240bhp absolute tops-if you can get it all to work. Frankly buying a C32 would be cheaper.
2. You remap it, sprintboost it, put a nice clean MB airfilter in and run it on Vmax and get a nice smooth-bit faster M271.
3.......or you accept what you’ve got and enjoy it!
1. Well you either do new new cams, new pistons, new kompressor, new pulleys, remapped ECU, new filters plus new injectors for fuelling you might end up with 240bhp absolute tops-if you can get it all to work. Frankly buying a C32 would be cheaper.
2. You remap it, sprintboost it, put a nice clean MB airfilter in and run it on Vmax and get a nice smooth-bit faster M271.
3.......or you accept what you’ve got and enjoy it!
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Anthony Vigil (01-18-2020)
11-04-2011, 06:50 PM
#56
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w124ce E200>E230K
dont want to make a new topic , this one found in the search box
does someone knows if this header is worth tryin?
it is very cheap so it can be ****tyy
http://www.m2performance.net/product...categoryid=269
thanks for the answer!!
does someone knows if this header is worth tryin?
it is very cheap so it can be ****tyy
http://www.m2performance.net/product...categoryid=269
thanks for the answer!!
01-18-2020, 02:51 PM
#57
O2 C230 Kompressor sport scoop questions
- I have 2002 C230 Kompressor sport coupe and I see that you were talking about the C 180 since I already have the c230k what modifications can I do to it to ramp everything up or make it faster or just quick.... thank you for your time hope to hear from you soon
01-18-2020, 04:36 PM
#58
Paint it red. Everyone who is anyone knows that red cars are faster.
JEEZIS! Did you read the entire thread? Just about NOTHING can be done for reasonable money. Get a faster car right from the git-go, or swap a larger engine in, as did AMG.
JEEZIS! Did you read the entire thread? Just about NOTHING can be done for reasonable money. Get a faster car right from the git-go, or swap a larger engine in, as did AMG.
01-19-2020, 12:59 AM
#60
Old, yes. But the same question comes up, time after time, on every forum I've ever been a member. It seems the real truth is that the OE's don't leave power on the table any more, nor are there gray market cars with more power (remember, in the 1980s?). That's just the facts of modern competitiveness.
Or, with great care and cost you MIGHT be able to gain a little in a specific rpm range at the cost of some in another rpm range. That could serve if you're racing and have a trans and diff ratio geared to take advantage of the narrow-range boost. Most will not.
Most will put on a noisy header and think they have boosted their car. I met a 16-yo who has a 2004 M3, muffler delete, CAI and that stuff. He claims he got +60 HP (because the PO said so) and wants to drift the car. These claims were made in front of his dad who was telling us he once borrowed his mom's Supra (non-turbo at that) and went well over 100 back in the day, in a Toyota. This will not end well.
Or, with great care and cost you MIGHT be able to gain a little in a specific rpm range at the cost of some in another rpm range. That could serve if you're racing and have a trans and diff ratio geared to take advantage of the narrow-range boost. Most will not.
Most will put on a noisy header and think they have boosted their car. I met a 16-yo who has a 2004 M3, muffler delete, CAI and that stuff. He claims he got +60 HP (because the PO said so) and wants to drift the car. These claims were made in front of his dad who was telling us he once borrowed his mom's Supra (non-turbo at that) and went well over 100 back in the day, in a Toyota. This will not end well.
09-06-2022, 08:31 AM
#61
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2004 C180k 6MT, 1987 230E JDM
Digging up an old thread here, but some dumb ***** in australia (me) is going through the process of getting h beam rods and forged pistons custom made and a set of cams reground to make a little more power using an Eaton m90. Will make a thread when parts land. Should have gone with an engine conversion but here we are
07-11-2023, 07:09 PM
#62
With the car having a supercharged 4 banger at 190bhp, how high in HP have you made your C230K?
Mods like headers, exhaust, air intake, upgraded pulleys, sprint booster, and ECU flash are available
So has anyone turn there Sporty sedan into a super fun to drive car
that can compete with simpler cars in it class that comes with 200+hp?
hmmm turbo 4 banger?
Mods like headers, exhaust, air intake, upgraded pulleys, sprint booster, and ECU flash are available
So has anyone turn there Sporty sedan into a super fun to drive car
that can compete with simpler cars in it class that comes with 200+hp?hmmm turbo 4 banger?
THEn things like bigger downpipe, higher flowing cats, bigger exhaust and less restrictive intake with bigger throttlebody will all help flow ALOT more than NA engines.
Then you may need larger injectors and a higher flowing fuel pump as well and of course custom tuning
