migxxx

I have a 08 C350 But I dont want to modify it because it has enough power and I like the quiet-ness.

I was looking to buy a C230 Kompressor Coupe 2003+ since they only cost around 8k . After reading the forums I realized that the reason why there is not a big Mercedes racing crowd going around is because they make it imposible for enthusiast to modify their ECU's Stupid company thinking.


1.Is there a list of components and specs anywhere.This is what I would like to know


1.Connecting rod material" forged aluminum and so on "
2.Valve spring tension
3.Pistons material
4.Crank material
5.Valve and valve seat material
6.engine block and head production type "
7.Any test of how much boost the heads can hold.
8.Max crank speed @ " ??" torque hp.
9. Any engine cut-outs.
10. Valve spring tension for C32 Amg .
11. What type of injectors does it use.
12. Cam lift and Max cam lift that can be installed


You dont need sensors to run any engine they are just to regulate fuel and timing wich is what an Engine Managment system does.They are also there to prevent moficiations and to find problems when something breaks easier

I would like to modify or replace the stock SC. I know someone here tryed it without success but With an Engine Managment system its easy . Engine management systems go for about 2-3k on ebay wich is a good price.The question is if they work for MB cars .All you really need to control is spark timing and injection timng and your done.

Read an article of a Gm 2.0 ecotec turbo holding 50psi @1500hp stock @10,000rpm . and 300hp by just replacing the pistons and cam.500hp by replacing pistons , rods ,valve springs and boosting on turbo with incredible reliability .

so this being a Mercedes I thought I would try and find info . If worst comes to worst I can just replace rods pistons high presure valve springs and a copper head gasket and an Engine management system and a cam. From what I gather Mercedes is not like a GM engine where you can just Flash your Ecu and Install a new Cam and get power.

Well Thanks for any info you can give me I would really apreciate it.
Why am I doing this? Well its 2008 and I think this car still looks awesome and when its not expensive anymore it seems like it would make an awesome high power project car.

ps. There has to be a way to alter signals that go into the ECU .because remember its only a small signal that sensors send to the ECU .-

nlpamg

waiting for mig888 and drexappeal to chime in here...

Tangerine

Standalone EMS system can be your solution tuning wise, they shouldn't cost more then 2k unless there are Mercedes specific ones.

I'm not sure what your list accomplish since those parts aren't that significant, you should be asking what the weakest link in the engine is and what horsepower the engine can hold and not the boost level... but since you're looking at valves and springs you want a higher redline so I would assume you are going for a big turbo unless you just like upgrading those item without knowing what they do

Modifying the spark and timing is just the bare essential, there are other parameters to tune.

Bingo

Sure sounds like a cool project but doesn't seem like you really know what you're doing. I would start off with something more basic and learn from there, maybe an Integra? Thats what I used. While the concept of FI is similar, there are some differences with Mercedes.

migxxx

Well to answer your question . If the Mb kompressor engines come with forged rods they can probably hold 350hp easily depending on the MM size.
wich means I would only need to replace pistons for a quick modification

I read on another post that the person could not boost more than 9psi without Ecu problems . I would hope this engine can produce power at 7,000 rpm at 18psi turbo by only changing the pistons,valve springs and higher temp titanium valves. hoping the crank is strong enough , I would like to keep from replacing the crank so hopefully it can handle those numbers.

I have zero knowledge of the history of these engines, Integras? eewww nasty looking cars. Ive built engines b4 have a 270hp 2.3 litter Quad4 5speed @ 7200 rpm wich does 13.s @12 psi . Now im going for looks since I feel in love with Mercedes . 350hp is more than enough and probably unsafe with stock suspension plus you dont want to break any axels or need a new trany.

since the engine does it peak hp at 5,800 rpm I would love to see a Dyno chart to see wat what rpm power starts to drop considerably . this is ofcourse due to cam size and Head port size.

I will do this if I can find a good engine system that I can hook my laptop with so I can control everything.

TemjinX2

before you lego build your engine. First figure out what your power goals are. Once you did that, figure out what are the limiting factors that would keep you from your goal.

since the car comes supercharged already from the factory, i believe the engine should already have forged internals. I would suggest doing more research on supercharging and turbo before you go into this.

this isn't like installing a ebay intake and then figuring it out its crap then uninstall. you can do a lot of harm to your engine and waste a lot of money if you don't know what your doing.

here's a good intro to turbo thread.

yes its about turboing a integra engine, but all the terms and concepts are the same.

http://www.team-integra.net/sections...?ArticleID=219

Tangerine

The stock ECM will retard the ignition to prevent denotation, if you get say a piggyback it will fight with it and the results wouldn't be as satisfying as a standalone so I would look there for tuning. Chipping it is good for mild mods but you are talking about more then mild mods.

The M111 runs on 5lb boost and the M271 on 11lbs, you can up the boost with a pulley change and see if that will satisfy your needs. Would be the cheapest/simplest solution.



Doesn't say the MY C230 but its supercharged.

http://www.dynospotracing.com/komp.htm

migxxx

wow nice. How do I know if its a M111 or M271? .From that I can tell that its intake it to small thats why it produces more power at low rpm wich is extremly good for low end torque feel as a daily driver.


Thanks that helped a lot . This engine is great ,if I change the cam, pistons and pulley I can be at 250+hp seeing as how restricted the intake is. I was thinking that changing the pulley was out of the question bc of the ECU good thing you cleared things up.ill still upgrade the pistons though just for reliability and so it can feel like a new engine.

PS. its extremly easy to change the cams on this engine.Ill try and find out how much lift I can put without moding the ECU.

Tangerine

There are tuners (Renntech, Carlsson etc) that offer pulley set along with a chip to the ECM. Check out our sponsors. You can tell the engine code by the MY you have for your car.

M111 = 1.8 = 2000-2002
M271 = 2.3 = 2003+

The stock intake are good already, hence the reason why there isn't any (to my knowledge) aftermarket intakes.

http://www.lacar.com/modules.php?nam...rticle&sid=350

doesn't have much info on the engine but its a start. There are also other good info on this site.

migxxx

oh thanks thats just what I needed .Renntech says its a 2.5l mbusa.com and edmunds.com says its a 1.8L . is the 2.5 rare?

also Renntechs prices are in German or something because it says 14,000 for a camshaft and cpu . wich is more than the new engine cost so leads me to belive that those prices are in german . Whats that translate to in dollars?



Thanks for all your replys =)

TemjinX2

i dont think the germans use deutsche marks anymore so the price should be in euros.


Warning: DEM Germany Deutsche Marks is obsolete and is no longer legal tender.
14,000.00 DEM = 11,308.64 USD
Germany Deutsche Marks obsolete United States Dollars
1 DEM = 0.807760 USD 1 USD = 1.23799 DEM

if its in euros

Live rates at 2008.05.22 07:16:36 UTC
14,000.00 EUR = 22,101.49 USD
Euro United States Dollars
1 EUR = 1.57868 USD 1 USD = 0.633442 EUR

C230 Sport Coup

If you want something to tinker with, a 2002 C230 Coupe has more wiggle room. An overdrive (or underdrive just no one has done that) crankshaft pulley will increase power by about 30 hp.
Add a header, another 10hp, and then maybe get the Supercharger ported, you can get close to 250 hp at the crank.

Not exactly a racecar. Start chucking out stuff for weight reduction, you still could have some fun.

Their were cams available at one point (Schrick? I think is the company's name) but they were god awful expensive.
Only seen one guy who claimed to have one, but I wrote to ask about it, he never responded.

The mods I mentioned tend to make the engine run lean.
But one company may have a solution to the ECU problem, and figured out how to add larger injectors and remap the ecu, currently they seem to be focused on the C32 though, check over there,
LET motorsports.

A few companies offer chipping for the 2.3 M111 that is specific to pullied engines, but haven't seen any solid data on that, like do they solve the lean issue, or even a dyno.

In the final analysis, you'd still be just within earshot of the power of the 350, a little less if you did everything possible thats known,
and so, what the point if you already have a 350.
You could do something with the intake on that, and get an underdrive pulley kit and get close to 300 hp.

DACHIGGA

Sorrry, but have to correct you here, M111 is between 2000-2002, but it
is 2.3L

The M271 is 1.8.

Dion

DACHIGGA

between the years 2003 and 2004, you get 2 options, the 1.8 and 3.2. In 2005 there was only the 1.8 (not 100% on this but I think so). Only in 2006 was the 2.5L option available, and only in canada and europe.

and just a side note, in 2007 there was also a c350 coupe in europe.

Defiant

Cripes, they make it hard enough to just put in a new radio. I'm amazed daily by how little MB information is on the web.

I got the factory service DVDs off eBay. So far, they're almost worse.

TruTaing

+1 on your comments about tangerine's displacement info.

Is the 2.5L coupe the v6 that is used in the 2006+ cars?

DACHIGGA

Should be one and the same, hey have the same exact specs.

C230 Sport Coup

There was a bored and stroked version of the M111 from Brabus,
2.5L.
Saw one on ebay in germany...ha,
10 grand!

Tangerine

Thanks for the correction. But any idea why the engine change to a smaller displacement?

DACHIGGA

Probably economy I'm guessing. The M111 has been used since forever, maybe a time for change.

UK-C200

Could be more to it than that - the road tax in most of Europe and in the UK is based on displacement - <2.0 seems to be the sweet spot. So stay under 2, add the super charger, save on road tax ;-)

TemjinX2

probably too meet the new eu emission standards. there more strict on c02 then we are.

jdmimax

yeah i was wondering he got it mixed up +1 i thought i made the mistake lol