C230 Sedan confirmed for US!
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From: dallas
02 GTI 1.8t
I went to my local dealer today to talk about ordering the c230k. When i told my sales man that I really should get the sedan for family reasons but I could not live with the C240 performance, he told me about the new C230k sedan. It will have sport suspension, 17" wheels, leather, and the 1.8k. He pulled the incoming cars up on the computer and said he will have it by March. I have 1pg brochure in my possesion. Now I have a decion to make, 2 door or 4 door. He did not have pricing yet, but said it would be less than the C240.
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From: Agoura Hills, CA
C230K
Originally posted by duchead
I went to my local dealer today to talk about ordering the c230k. When i told my sales man that I really should get the sedan for family reasons but I could not live with the C240 performance, he told me about the new C230k sedan. It will have sport suspension, 17" wheels, leather, and the 1.8k. He pulled the incoming cars up on the computer and said he will have it by March. I have 1pg brochure in my possesion. Now I have a decion to make, 2 door or 4 door. He did not have pricing yet, but said it would be less than the C240.
I went to my local dealer today to talk about ordering the c230k. When i told my sales man that I really should get the sedan for family reasons but I could not live with the C240 performance, he told me about the new C230k sedan. It will have sport suspension, 17" wheels, leather, and the 1.8k. He pulled the incoming cars up on the computer and said he will have it by March. I have 1pg brochure in my possesion. Now I have a decion to make, 2 door or 4 door. He did not have pricing yet, but said it would be less than the C240.
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From: Ohio
2010 C300 4matic
Originally posted by duchead
I don't have a scanner. One of my co workers has a scanner, I will see if he will do it. If anyone wants verification, call a dealer.
I don't have a scanner. One of my co workers has a scanner, I will see if he will do it. If anyone wants verification, call a dealer.
I wasn't aware that dealers already had allocation for this vehicle. I will look on the computer tomorrow if I remember to, and see if there are any on there and when they are being built. It certainly wouldn't be before March unless they are already building them now.
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From: www.Traben-Trarbach.de
MPG+ ROLFCOPTER
Originally posted by duchead
If anyone wants verification, call a dealer.
If anyone wants verification, call a dealer.
) 325 will be addressed. And my $0.02 would be that the sport edition of the C320 will not be as expensively priced as it was in 02 in order to be competitive with the Bimmers.
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From: South Florida
Fast Cars!
Originally posted by amdeutsch
Either that or another confirmation. I just got back from my dealer and he showed me the brochures. Actually he was amazed that I already knew. Well here is the point; the C230 is coming with the sport package and it is priced below the C240 according to the dealer. Not only that but MB is bringing back the sport package for the C320 also. Here is the kicker. MB is telling its dealers that they want to attract a younger crowd. They also tell the dealers not to interfere with customers wanting the regular C240 and tell them about the "cheaper" C230 sedan. The only reason I got this info is because of this forum. The dealer is amazed because of all the info on here that he is not aware of off. Part of the sales talk is supposed to be centered about how the competition to the BMW (acronym for a backwards spelling of "Wannabe Mercedes Benz) 325 will be addressed. And my $0.02 would be that the sport edition of the C320 will not be as expensively priced as it was in 02 in order to be competitive with the Bimmers.
Either that or another confirmation. I just got back from my dealer and he showed me the brochures. Actually he was amazed that I already knew. Well here is the point; the C230 is coming with the sport package and it is priced below the C240 according to the dealer. Not only that but MB is bringing back the sport package for the C320 also. Here is the kicker. MB is telling its dealers that they want to attract a younger crowd. They also tell the dealers not to interfere with customers wanting the regular C240 and tell them about the "cheaper" C230 sedan. The only reason I got this info is because of this forum. The dealer is amazed because of all the info on here that he is not aware of off. Part of the sales talk is supposed to be centered about how the competition to the BMW (acronym for a backwards spelling of "Wannabe Mercedes Benz
) 325 will be addressed. And my $0.02 would be that the sport edition of the C320 will not be as expensively priced as it was in 02 in order to be competitive with the Bimmers.
What did the borochure look like? I mean what did the car look like? What rims come on their? or is there anything else different that you noticed?
If people start finding out alot more about the C230 Sedan........what would be an advanatge to get the C240?
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From: Ohio
2010 C300 4matic
Originally posted by BlackC230Coupe
What did the borochure look like? I mean what did the car look like? What rims come on their? or is there anything else different that you noticed?
What did the borochure look like? I mean what did the car look like? What rims come on their? or is there anything else different that you noticed?
It's not really a regular brochure. My dealer got a letter with some info and a 3-page pamphlet with some pics and info. Then it had three separate pics that came with it. Two of the three were of the C320 sport though.
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From: South Florida
Fast Cars!
Originally posted by Matt230K
It looks like a regular C sedan with sport package. It is the same bumpers and side skirts as the old sport package. And it comes with C7 rims. Pretty good looking. One of the pics I saw was a black one with bi-xenon. It looked pretty good.
It's not really a regular brochure. My dealer got a letter with some info and a 3-page pamphlet with some pics and info. Then it had three separate pics that came with it. Two of the three were of the C320 sport though.
It looks like a regular C sedan with sport package. It is the same bumpers and side skirts as the old sport package. And it comes with C7 rims. Pretty good looking. One of the pics I saw was a black one with bi-xenon. It looked pretty good.
It's not really a regular brochure. My dealer got a letter with some info and a 3-page pamphlet with some pics and info. Then it had three separate pics that came with it. Two of the three were of the C320 sport though.
I'm mad it will come with the C7 rims
people actually ask me if they are aftermarket rims, i dont want them to become popular now. 
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From: The blue white rock, third out.
2002 C230 Coupe(M111)
Originally posted by MacPhisto
I agree with a lot of your posts and points, but not this one.
There is a huge difference between the BMW 325 engine and the 2.3 MB engine, as far as refinement (noise, vibration and harshness). Huge. Like comparing a sewing machine to a tractor.
I agree with a lot of your posts and points, but not this one.
There is a huge difference between the BMW 325 engine and the 2.3 MB engine, as far as refinement (noise, vibration and harshness). Huge. Like comparing a sewing machine to a tractor.
Ive driven my friends BMW numerous times, there's very little difference in NVH. Aside from the2.3's well documented cat pre-heat sequence that route hot air from the supercharger around the intercooler...which does make some unpleasant noise, once underway the 2.3 delivers its power just as smooth, and down low its got better a lot better grunt than the BMW. Huge difference...youve been reading your nine magazine subsciptions too much, and driving the cars too little.
Frankly, I like the electric drill sound of the supercharger a lot better than the sound of BMW's inline six.
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From: Diamond Bar, CA
W206 PHEV AMG
Originally posted by potatobbq
Yeah, but Audi doesn't sell anything in between the 1.8T and 3.0 A4... If MB brings over a C230 sedan, I think it would be competing with the C240. It seems unnecessary for MB to bring over yet another engine option in the lineup when the performance difference is very minimal. It would make more sense if they were to get rid of the C240...
Yeah, but Audi doesn't sell anything in between the 1.8T and 3.0 A4... If MB brings over a C230 sedan, I think it would be competing with the C240. It seems unnecessary for MB to bring over yet another engine option in the lineup when the performance difference is very minimal. It would make more sense if they were to get rid of the C240...
agree with the other stuff you said, but i think the C230k sedan will perform better than the C240.
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From: Toronto, Ontario Canada
2002 C240 Classic - Orion Blue Beast!!
The c230 sedan will not kill the c240. There are alot of people who are drawn to the prestige of owning an MB with a v6. Like I said b4, published specs mean nothing to the mass population if you're comparing a 4 to a 6. The 4 may have more power, but it's still a 4, and thus is lacking.
People on this board are different. We are enthusiasts. The masses of people do not think like us.
People on this board are different. We are enthusiasts. The masses of people do not think like us.
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From: Gaithersburg, MD
2002 C240 6-spd (ret)
Originally posted by Outland
That's just a stupid comment.
Ive driven my friends BMW numerous times, there's very little difference in NVH. Aside from the2.3's well documented cat pre-heat sequence that route hot air from the supercharger around the intercooler...which does make some unpleasant noise, once underway the 2.3 delivers its power just as smooth, and down low its got better a lot better grunt than the BMW. Huge difference...youve been reading your nine magazine subsciptions too much, and driving the cars too little.
That's just a stupid comment.
Ive driven my friends BMW numerous times, there's very little difference in NVH. Aside from the2.3's well documented cat pre-heat sequence that route hot air from the supercharger around the intercooler...which does make some unpleasant noise, once underway the 2.3 delivers its power just as smooth, and down low its got better a lot better grunt than the BMW. Huge difference...youve been reading your nine magazine subsciptions too much, and driving the cars too little.
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From: Scottsdale, AZ
Originally posted by Outland
That's just a stupid comment.
Ive driven my friends BMW numerous times, there's very little difference in NVH. Aside from the2.3's well documented cat pre-heat sequence that route hot air from the supercharger around the intercooler...which does make some unpleasant noise, once underway the 2.3 delivers its power just as smooth, and down low its got better a lot better grunt than the BMW. Huge difference...youve been reading your nine magazine subsciptions too much, and driving the cars too little.
Frankly, I like the electric drill sound of the supercharger a lot better than the sound of BMW's inline six.
That's just a stupid comment.
Ive driven my friends BMW numerous times, there's very little difference in NVH. Aside from the2.3's well documented cat pre-heat sequence that route hot air from the supercharger around the intercooler...which does make some unpleasant noise, once underway the 2.3 delivers its power just as smooth, and down low its got better a lot better grunt than the BMW. Huge difference...youve been reading your nine magazine subsciptions too much, and driving the cars too little.
Frankly, I like the electric drill sound of the supercharger a lot better than the sound of BMW's inline six.
The difference between the BMW inline 6 and the MB 2.3 is "huge," to the extent that "huge" is defined as engines that are almost at the complete opposite end of the passenger car engine spectrum. The BMW is one of the best, most refined engines available today, the 2.3 is (or was) one of the worst, least refined.
The C230s that I have driven were shocking in their coarseness at startup. And, at 5,000 rpm they buzzed enough to vibrate the sunvisors and other interior trim.
As far as sound, the 2.3 is far more lawnmower than electric drill.
I've driven both extensively, including C230 loaners that my local dealer gives out. My E320 has been in the shop many, many times, so I've put quite a few miles on the C230.
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From: Atlanta, GA
C230 coupe 6sp
Mark, the one you drove was not running good because my c230 idles perfectly smooth, and has no noticable vibration. It does have a very slight higher frequency "buzz", but not any different than the 1.8 I test drove. My car really smoothed out a lot as got more miles on it.
Last edited by speedfrk; Dec 17, 2002 at 12:24 PM.
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2010 C300 4matic
Originally posted by David N.
The c230 sedan will not kill the c240. There are alot of people who are drawn to the prestige of owning an MB with a v6. Like I said b4, published specs mean nothing to the mass population if you're comparing a 4 to a 6. The 4 may have more power, but it's still a 4, and thus is lacking.
People on this board are different. We are enthusiasts. The masses of people do not think like us.
The c230 sedan will not kill the c240. There are alot of people who are drawn to the prestige of owning an MB with a v6. Like I said b4, published specs mean nothing to the mass population if you're comparing a 4 to a 6. The 4 may have more power, but it's still a 4, and thus is lacking.
People on this board are different. We are enthusiasts. The masses of people do not think like us.
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From: Diamond Bar, CA
W206 PHEV AMG
Originally posted by David N.
The c230 sedan will not kill the c240. There are alot of people who are drawn to the prestige of owning an MB with a v6. Like I said b4, published specs mean nothing to the mass population if you're comparing a 4 to a 6. The 4 may have more power, but it's still a 4, and thus is lacking.
People on this board are different. We are enthusiasts. The masses of people do not think like us.
The c230 sedan will not kill the c240. There are alot of people who are drawn to the prestige of owning an MB with a v6. Like I said b4, published specs mean nothing to the mass population if you're comparing a 4 to a 6. The 4 may have more power, but it's still a 4, and thus is lacking.
People on this board are different. We are enthusiasts. The masses of people do not think like us.
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From: Toronto, Ontario Canada
2002 C240 Classic - Orion Blue Beast!!
Originally posted by FrankW
so you are saying that Lotus Elise is lacking something because it has a 4 cyclinder. Evo VII, WRX, and Elise all have 4 cyclinder engine. They all have drivetran that is equally sophisticated to the C240 or even better.
so you are saying that Lotus Elise is lacking something because it has a 4 cyclinder. Evo VII, WRX, and Elise all have 4 cyclinder engine. They all have drivetran that is equally sophisticated to the C240 or even better.
Go back and read my previous posts. What did I say b4?
Perception is a greater force than reality. Reality is that 4 bangers can be as good as sixes. The perception is they will never be.
That is why a c230 sedan will not work.
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From: Scottsdale, AZ
Originally posted by David N.
I'm not saying they lack anything mechanically. What they lack is the prestige that NA buyers perceive a 6 cylinder engine to have.
Go back and read my previous posts. What did I say b4?
Perception is a greater force than reality. Reality is that 4 bangers can be as good as sixes. The perception is they will never be.
That is why a c230 sedan will not work.
I'm not saying they lack anything mechanically. What they lack is the prestige that NA buyers perceive a 6 cylinder engine to have.
Go back and read my previous posts. What did I say b4?
Perception is a greater force than reality. Reality is that 4 bangers can be as good as sixes. The perception is they will never be.
That is why a c230 sedan will not work.
The problem is, how long can one sell out the brand name? This is a concern that BMW and MB are grappling with. The realize that going downmarket makes the register ring in the short term, but at what long term price?
Here's a quote:
"For premium manufacturers, the key is to attract the new breed of buyers while maintaining the mystique of the marques. “There’s certainly a point where you become too available and you lose that attraction,” says Jim McDowell, vice president of marketing for BMW North America. “Then you become middle market and you become passé.” "
And, a recent AutoWeek article (dang, why do I pay for a hard copy subscription when you can get the stuff for free) on the downmarket moves by the luxury brands.
"Driving downmarket: When everyone drives a luxury car, will anyone notice?"
http://www.autoweek.com/search/searc...33010&record=1
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From: Toronto, Ontario Canada
2002 C240 Classic - Orion Blue Beast!!
Originally posted by MacPhisto
I would tend to agree, but there is a major move to drive downmarket for the traditional luxury makers. It has been noted for around a year now, and the mfrs are cashing in.
The problem is, how long can one sell out the brand name? This is a concern that BMW and MB are grappling with. The realize that going downmarket makes the register ring in the short term, but at what long term price?
Here's a quote:
"For premium manufacturers, the key is to attract the new breed of buyers while maintaining the mystique of the marques. “There’s certainly a point where you become too available and you lose that attraction,” says Jim McDowell, vice president of marketing for BMW North America. “Then you become middle market and you become passé.” "
And, a recent AutoWeek article (dang, why do I pay for a hard copy subscription when you can get the stuff for free) on the downmarket moves by the luxury brands.
"Driving downmarket: When everyone drives a luxury car, will anyone notice?"
http://www.autoweek.com/search/searc...33010&record=1
I would tend to agree, but there is a major move to drive downmarket for the traditional luxury makers. It has been noted for around a year now, and the mfrs are cashing in.
The problem is, how long can one sell out the brand name? This is a concern that BMW and MB are grappling with. The realize that going downmarket makes the register ring in the short term, but at what long term price?
Here's a quote:
"For premium manufacturers, the key is to attract the new breed of buyers while maintaining the mystique of the marques. “There’s certainly a point where you become too available and you lose that attraction,” says Jim McDowell, vice president of marketing for BMW North America. “Then you become middle market and you become passé.” "
And, a recent AutoWeek article (dang, why do I pay for a hard copy subscription when you can get the stuff for free) on the downmarket moves by the luxury brands.
"Driving downmarket: When everyone drives a luxury car, will anyone notice?"
http://www.autoweek.com/search/searc...33010&record=1
The higher end BMW and MB models will not lose their appeal, aura, prestige or mystique because only a select few will still be driving those cars.
When I was in europe this summer, I saw many, many A-Classes on the road. This has not killed the MB brand in europe. MB is still looked upon as being one of the most prestigious marques to own. A-Class drivers still aspire to buy e and s classes. Non MB owners still aspire to drive an MB one day, regardless of the number of a-class cars on the road.
NA buyers will get used to this. Besides, all high end automakers are moving downmarket. There is no non-downmarket alternative for them to go to. So chances are, people will still buy that MB they want, regardless of whether or not they see 60 a-classes on the road in a day.
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From: The blue white rock, third out.
2002 C230 Coupe(M111)
Originally posted by MacPhisto
Umm, you are living in a dream world.
Umm, you are living in a dream world.
The difference between the BMW inline 6 and the MB 2.3 is "huge," to the extent that "huge" is defined as engines that are almost at the complete opposite end of the passenger car engine spectrum. The BMW is one of the best, most refined engines available today, the 2.3 is (or was) one of the worst, least refined.
The C230s that I have driven were shocking in their coarseness at startup. And, at 5,000 rpm they buzzed enough to vibrate the sunvisors and other interior trim.
As far as sound, the 2.3 is far more lawnmower than electric drill.
I've driven both extensively, including C230 loaners that my local dealer gives out. My E320 has been in the shop many, many times, so I've put quite a few miles on the C230.
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From: Diamond Bar, CA
W206 PHEV AMG
Originally posted by David N.
Perception is a greater force than reality. Reality is that 4 bangers can be as good as sixes. The perception is they will never be.
That is why a c230 sedan will not work.
Perception is a greater force than reality. Reality is that 4 bangers can be as good as sixes. The perception is they will never be.
That is why a c230 sedan will not work.
I guess because of perception, you will never buy a Porsche 911 because it has a 6 cyclinder flat engine and never buy a Jaguar XJ220 because it has a Twin Turbo I-6.
keep in mind that they are your perception, not everyone have the same perception as you do.
Last edited by FrankW; Dec 18, 2002 at 12:12 AM.
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From: The blue white rock, third out.
2002 C230 Coupe(M111)
Originally posted by David N.
NA buyers will get used to this. Besides, all high end automakers are moving downmarket. There is no non-downmarket alternative for them to go to. So chances are, people will still buy that MB they want, regardless of whether or not they see 60 a-classes on the road in a day.
NA buyers will get used to this. Besides, all high end automakers are moving downmarket. There is no non-downmarket alternative for them to go to. So chances are, people will still buy that MB they want, regardless of whether or not they see 60 a-classes on the road in a day.
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From: Toronto, Ontario Canada
2002 C240 Classic - Orion Blue Beast!!
Originally posted by FrankW
if perception is what you are talking about then 6 will never be as good as the 8 and 8 will never be as good as the 10 or 12. That is just so wrong.
I guess because of perception, you will never buy a Porsche 911 because it has a 6 cyclinder flat engine and never buy a Jaguar XJ220 because it has a Twin Turbo I-6.
keep in mind that they are your perception, not everyone have the same perception as you do.
if perception is what you are talking about then 6 will never be as good as the 8 and 8 will never be as good as the 10 or 12. That is just so wrong.
I guess because of perception, you will never buy a Porsche 911 because it has a 6 cyclinder flat engine and never buy a Jaguar XJ220 because it has a Twin Turbo I-6.
keep in mind that they are your perception, not everyone have the same perception as you do.
Four cylinder engines on the other hand, are not percieved as being in the same league as 6, 8 , and 12 cylinder engines. When you say four cylinder engine, most people think of the sewing machine/lawnmower 4 bangers found in civics, golfs, etc, that are great on gas, but couldn't get you up a hill if you're life depended on it.
Also, remember, this isn't my perception. Talk to enough people and you'll eventually get a feel for what the perception is amongst the general population. I'm just relaying what I hear.
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From: Scottsdale, AZ
Originally posted by Outland
Youre the same poster who said in a different post that you would never buy a Mercedes...and then you went on to ramble about your 9 magazine subscriptions. I think youre full of BS.
Youre the same poster who said in a different post that you would never buy a Mercedes...and then you went on to ramble about your 9 magazine subscriptions. I think youre full of BS.
You still never told me the wonderful sources of your information. I'd like to share in your immense knowledge of the automotive industry.
