Water4Gas mod on C240
07-01-2008, 10:38 AM
#26
Member
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Orlando, Fl
Posts: 172
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
My gas sipping C-Class
clean MAF diy on benzworld.org w210 section,use only crc brand maf cleaner.
2001 with over 100k miles it is time for new o2 sensors.They wear old and are a big cause of poor mpg.
http://www.autohausaz.com/search/pro...xygen%20Sensor
You guys that want to try the scam ever hear about the first law of thermodynamics?Conservation of energy?Perpetual motion machines?
Simply put you can not do it.Browns gas my a** the guy was sued for all he was worth by his investors and the court said his so called water engine was smoke and mirrors.
Baking soda?Car alternator making welding gas?
Ho HO Ho it has been refered as because the joke is on you.
The you tube video
Did you see the size of the car and the box for the power supply?
What do you think is in that box.A big battery that you charge at home to get the H for a fuel cell.It is not an internal combustion engine.
Why not install the old scam that was going around during the embargo in the 70's?Guy guaranteed an extra 10mpg for $25 kit.People that ordered the kit got a bolt and some nuts to screw in and install and adjust beneath the gas pedal so the pedal could only go to 1/2 throttle
This browns gas scam is just the modern version of the same screwing,and the only thing different is the people getting screwed .
ohlord
at least you ones that want to buy or build a system give me a good laugh
2 gallons of water a year,baking soda,a ball jar used for canning peaches,some tubing from the hardware store.
free energy
Chumps
2001 with over 100k miles it is time for new o2 sensors.They wear old and are a big cause of poor mpg.
http://www.autohausaz.com/search/pro...xygen%20Sensor
You guys that want to try the scam ever hear about the first law of thermodynamics?Conservation of energy?Perpetual motion machines?
Simply put you can not do it.Browns gas my a** the guy was sued for all he was worth by his investors and the court said his so called water engine was smoke and mirrors.
Baking soda?Car alternator making welding gas?
Ho HO Ho it has been refered as because the joke is on you.
The you tube video
Did you see the size of the car and the box for the power supply?
What do you think is in that box.A big battery that you charge at home to get the H for a fuel cell.It is not an internal combustion engine.
Why not install the old scam that was going around during the embargo in the 70's?Guy guaranteed an extra 10mpg for $25 kit.People that ordered the kit got a bolt and some nuts to screw in and install and adjust beneath the gas pedal so the pedal could only go to 1/2 throttle
This browns gas scam is just the modern version of the same screwing,and the only thing different is the people getting screwed .
ohlord
at least you ones that want to buy or build a system give me a good laugh
2 gallons of water a year,baking soda,a ball jar used for canning peaches,some tubing from the hardware store.
free energyChumps
07-01-2008, 07:34 PM
#27
Super Member
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: London, GB
Posts: 529
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RHD C200 Sport Coupe, RHD SLK-55, LHD SLK-350
Just curious here - and I do agree with the can't get something for nothing folks - but there is a possibility of something for less. Wouldn't it be pretty easy if you have the time and don't mind the effort to simply fabricate a quick HO injection system and test that? I'd imagine if you saw decent gains from this you could much more efficiently produce HO at home than in your car? Granted a big tank of hydrogen is an equally big bomb, but it's all in the name of science....
07-01-2008, 08:31 PM
#28
Member
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Orlando, Fl
Posts: 172
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
My gas sipping C-Class
Just curious here - and I do agree with the can't get something for nothing folks - but there is a possibility of something for less. Wouldn't it be pretty easy if you have the time and don't mind the effort to simply fabricate a quick HO injection system and test that? I'd imagine if you saw decent gains from this you could much more efficiently produce HO at home than in your car? Granted a big tank of hydrogen is an equally big bomb, but it's all in the name of science....
HHO should not be stored. That's a major accident waiting to happen.
Scott
07-02-2008, 07:00 AM
#29
MBWorld Fanatic!
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Long Island, NY
Posts: 2,140
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
C3Twon AWD Jumpofffff
07-02-2008, 07:37 AM
#30
Member
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Orlando, Fl
Posts: 172
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
My gas sipping C-Class
I'd imagine if you saw decent gains from this you could much more efficiently produce HO at home than in your car? Granted a big tank of hydrogen is an equally big bomb, but it's all in the name of science....
UK-C200 is offline Reply With Quote
UK-C200 is offline Reply With Quote
Some of you keep talking about how much energy it would take to produce this new energy.
I guess I would use our Kompressor as an analogy, in that the Kompressor uses energy to create additional hp. The reason it makes sense to have the Kompressor is because it's creating more energy than it's drawing from the engine.
If I can produce enough HHO from no more energy than it takes to run the A/C on high, and it shows an increase in fuel economy as well as hp, why would that not make sense.
I also believe that the Kompressor probably creates a lot more drag on the motor than an alternator would under a heavy load. I could be wrong though..
Scott
07-02-2008, 09:48 AM
#31
Member
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Charleston, SC
Posts: 154
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
C230 Kompressor Sport Coupe
i am- if i may say- very, very knowledgeable about brute force electrolysis- or your "Water4Gas" mod- its not as simple as it seems, go to oupower.com and read up for a few months before building your own. and for christs sake, DONT buy one already made! also- google "smacks booster"
07-02-2008, 08:17 PM
#32
Member
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Charleston, SC
Posts: 154
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
C230 Kompressor Sport Coupe
Let's do a little math on the back of a napkin. The car extracts about 110Kwh from the gasoline. Electrically converting water into hydrogen and oxygen with a 12 volt battery will take about .025 Kwh from the battery. Now if we assume 100% of the electricty produces hydrogen with the same energy content (it doesn't, but let's paint the best face on a pig here) then we can reduce the fuel needed to drive 60 miles by 57 feet.
Please save your money. Everytime there is a spike in gas prices these ripoff artists come out of the woodwork looking for your wallet. Don't be a victim.
Please save your money. Everytime there is a spike in gas prices these ripoff artists come out of the woodwork looking for your wallet. Don't be a victim.
however- a sealed, 11 cell series style electrolyser, which gets roughly 1.3DCV per sealed cell, will be most effecient. pairing this with a heavy duty secondary battery, appropriate solar panel and marine dual battery charger provides with a very little parasitic draw on the system.
07-07-2008, 01:45 PM
#33
Member
Thread Starter
Okay I emailed someone that bought a unit on Ebay from an authorized dealer and installed it. They gave me a nice honest opinion:
"I installed it on a 1995 Ford F150 equipped with an inline 6 cylinder motor. It is my father-in-law's truck. He says it looks like it is getting a 10-15% increase in fuel economy. This could be for many reasons. Supposedly, in order for this to increase your fuel economy, you have to have an EFIE. This hooks into your MAP sensor and allows you to control the amount of fuel going into your motor. We used this to cut down the fuel and allow the Hydrogen to make up the difference. By us cutting down the fuel, could be the reason the fuel economy is a little better. But if the engine is running lean, this could also in turn blow the motor. I am not confident enough to refer these to anyone, and would not put one on my own vehicle. You can simply drive in lower RPM ranges and get this same type of difference (I've tried it, and it works amazingly) without the hassle, the expense, or the danger to your motor. Thanks for asking. I hope I helped."
I think this is enough for me.
I think I may get into a Kompressor c230 1.8 4cyl!
Thanks everyone!
"I installed it on a 1995 Ford F150 equipped with an inline 6 cylinder motor. It is my father-in-law's truck. He says it looks like it is getting a 10-15% increase in fuel economy. This could be for many reasons. Supposedly, in order for this to increase your fuel economy, you have to have an EFIE. This hooks into your MAP sensor and allows you to control the amount of fuel going into your motor. We used this to cut down the fuel and allow the Hydrogen to make up the difference. By us cutting down the fuel, could be the reason the fuel economy is a little better. But if the engine is running lean, this could also in turn blow the motor. I am not confident enough to refer these to anyone, and would not put one on my own vehicle. You can simply drive in lower RPM ranges and get this same type of difference (I've tried it, and it works amazingly) without the hassle, the expense, or the danger to your motor. Thanks for asking. I hope I helped."
I think this is enough for me.
I think I may get into a Kompressor c230 1.8 4cyl!
Thanks everyone!
07-07-2008, 01:50 PM
#34
Member
Thread Starter
Not to side track here but can anyone else give me an idea of their c230 Kompressor gas mileage stats? Thinking about a 2005 c230.
Last edited by ROCK1965; 07-07-2008 at 03:17 PM.
07-07-2008, 02:01 PM
#35
Super Member
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Long Island
Posts: 496
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
MB
07-07-2008, 03:58 PM
#36
Super Member
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: London, GB
Posts: 529
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RHD C200 Sport Coupe, RHD SLK-55, LHD SLK-350
Managed to do a bit over 37 last Friday running across the outskirts of London in a C200 Kompressor, and I've seen over 40 on the highway before.
Last 1400 miles or so my car's telling me a bit over 25, and I've had a couple of really dire crap traffic days like today to knock the overall's down. Have I told you how much I hate the Blackwall Tunnel yet?!
Last 1400 miles or so my car's telling me a bit over 25, and I've had a couple of really dire crap traffic days like today to knock the overall's down. Have I told you how much I hate the Blackwall Tunnel yet?!
07-07-2008, 04:12 PM
#37
Super Member
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: London, GB
Posts: 529
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RHD C200 Sport Coupe, RHD SLK-55, LHD SLK-350
I'm starting to think I must be retarded, because I believe it would be more efficient to produce HHO in a car than it would in a home.
Some of you keep talking about how much energy it would take to produce this new energy.
I guess I would use our Kompressor as an analogy, in that the Kompressor uses energy to create additional hp. The reason it makes sense to have the Kompressor is because it's creating more energy than it's drawing from the engine.
If I can produce enough HHO from no more energy than it takes to run the A/C on high, and it shows an increase in fuel economy as well as hp, why would that not make sense.
I also believe that the Kompressor probably creates a lot more drag on the motor than an alternator would under a heavy load. I could be wrong though..
Scott
Some of you keep talking about how much energy it would take to produce this new energy.
I guess I would use our Kompressor as an analogy, in that the Kompressor uses energy to create additional hp. The reason it makes sense to have the Kompressor is because it's creating more energy than it's drawing from the engine.
If I can produce enough HHO from no more energy than it takes to run the A/C on high, and it shows an increase in fuel economy as well as hp, why would that not make sense.
I also believe that the Kompressor probably creates a lot more drag on the motor than an alternator would under a heavy load. I could be wrong though..
Scott
Good luck with your project - I'm interested to hear the outcome regardless.
Last edited by UK-C200; 07-07-2008 at 04:15 PM.
07-07-2008, 04:13 PM
#38
Member
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: North Jersey
Posts: 147
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
2007 C230 Sport manual
To compare...I now drive '07 C230 Sport 6/cylinder and it gets about 23 mpg on average and about 26mpg on the highway at 3000 RPM.
I costs about $50/week for premium gas. I drive into Manhattan everyday for a round trip of about 60 miles/day.
Hope that helps.
07-07-2008, 04:20 PM
#39
Member
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Orlando, Fl
Posts: 172
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
My gas sipping C-Class
I think an avearge of 27 to 30 mpg per tank is more realistic.
I've been able to get an average of 37 mpg on my 57 mile trip home from work, but I drove as Glyn suggests (looking ahead, anticipating traffic ahead, etc...) and by the time I got to work the next day I was back down to around 31 mpg.
My best miles per tank was 499 with 0 miles till empty. I think my average was just over 31 mpg....but that was in near perfect driving conditions.
Like I said..... 27-30 with conservative driving.
Scott
I've been able to get an average of 37 mpg on my 57 mile trip home from work, but I drove as Glyn suggests (looking ahead, anticipating traffic ahead, etc...) and by the time I got to work the next day I was back down to around 31 mpg.
My best miles per tank was 499 with 0 miles till empty. I think my average was just over 31 mpg....but that was in near perfect driving conditions.
Like I said..... 27-30 with conservative driving.
Scott
07-07-2008, 04:29 PM
#40
Member
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Orlando, Fl
Posts: 172
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
My gas sipping C-Class
So yeah, I think you are using a bad analogy - superchargers work by using parasitic energy from the engine to force more air into the engine than a normally aspirated engine can draw in on it's own. This, combined with additional fuel causes the engine to produce more power. It's not something for nothing. More than you ever wanted to know about superchargers, courtesy of Wikipedia. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Supercharger
Good luck with your project - I'm interested to hear the outcome regardless.
Good luck with your project - I'm interested to hear the outcome regardless.
My analogy was for those that said the current draw would use more energy than I could produce, to see a net gain. My argument is that it is possible to have a system drawing energy from the motor that is designed to produce more than it draws. Obviously, a kompressor (sc) is able to add a net benefit and increase mileage and performance. so it might be possible to have another system do the same.
I know they are different and it's not the best analogy; however, it was the easiest way to argue against those saying the draw on the alternator would be greater than the benefit from an hho system.
trust me, if I'm wrong, you'll know. I will be 100% honest about the results from mine, once I get it done.
Scott
07-15-2008, 01:43 PM
#41
Member
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Dallas TX,USA
Posts: 167
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like
on
1 Post
02 w203,85 w123
Rock,ur c240 mpg should be better
Damn Rock! Hope u havent driven too long w/ur mileage being that bad! I got spoiled in my BMW & Eclipse by having cars that got 30-plus mpg for a long time. Was upset at my 240 giving me 25mpg at first,but I'm cool w/that now. It seems to fluctuate between 19.5-28mpg depending on my foot. I'm right at 70k miles & havent had any work (plugs,etc) done yet.
07-21-2008, 09:07 PM
#42
For the record I am a very pesimistic person, I had friends that did the HHO kits and talked about how amazing they were etc. Anyways, We run a f350 dually to tow our racing trailer *I am partial owner of MCRacing, a xc race team that runs dirtbikes and quads* We pull about 16-17mpg highway with a 24 foot trailer *pretty damn good to begin with* One day one of my buddies volunteered to pay to install a hho kit for me to try and if I liked it I would pay him back. We have put about 10,000 miles since the hho kit and have got a average of 20.4mpg over the span. Not a HUGE increase but when you look at the price of diesel it was worth the 200 bucks dumped into it.
07-22-2008, 10:44 AM
#43
Senior Member
For the record I am a very pesimistic person, I had friends that did the HHO kits and talked about how amazing they were etc. Anyways, We run a f350 dually to tow our racing trailer *I am partial owner of MCRacing, a xc race team that runs dirtbikes and quads* We pull about 16-17mpg highway with a 24 foot trailer *pretty damn good to begin with* One day one of my buddies volunteered to pay to install a hho kit for me to try and if I liked it I would pay him back. We have put about 10,000 miles since the hho kit and have got a average of 20.4mpg over the span. Not a HUGE increase but when you look at the price of diesel it was worth the 200 bucks dumped into it.
07-22-2008, 12:35 PM
#45
Almost a Member!
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 29
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
2005 c230
NEWTONS LAW
Energy is not created or destroyed.
The thermodynamics of the whole thing don't work. Its a complete joke aimed at ignorant people. Just look at what they call this deal: "water 4 gas"
don't be stupid
The thermodynamics of the whole thing don't work. Its a complete joke aimed at ignorant people. Just look at what they call this deal: "water 4 gas"
don't be stupid
07-22-2008, 12:52 PM
#46
Member
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: undisclosed location
Posts: 0
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
fleet vehicle
07-22-2008, 05:58 PM
#47
Senior Member
Many who buy a used C (most of us in this forum, likely) are affected by the change in price over the course of the last few years. I bought my C240 right before Katrina and I'm glad I did b/c the change from $1.30ish to $2.25ish would have been bad in my old Blazer. Now that the price has increased to over $4, the money put into the car each month changes if not dramatically at least enough to make the average W203 owner think about it. I'm certainly aware and making an effort to reduce my consumption and many others here are as well.
07-23-2008, 07:18 AM
#48
MBWorld Fanatic!
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Carefree az usa
Posts: 1,097
Likes: 0
Received 23 Likes
on
19 Posts
2020 S560,14 ml350, 03 sl55, silver, pano, slr cams, evo headers, lsd, 2019 s63 cab.
why don't you consider methanol injection instead.
http://www.alcohol-injection.com/
offers a cooling to the engine, and compression boost.
http://www.alcohol-injection.com/for...ement-960.html
http://www.alcohol-injection.com/
offers a cooling to the engine, and compression boost.
http://www.alcohol-injection.com/for...ement-960.html
Last edited by theboogers; 07-23-2008 at 07:21 AM. Reason: additional info
07-23-2008, 08:34 PM
#49
Super Member
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: London, GB
Posts: 529
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RHD C200 Sport Coupe, RHD SLK-55, LHD SLK-350
What you and the HHO crowd are banking on is that the alternator in your car is producing EXCESS energy today that you hope to utilize to product HHO - essentially using the HHO system to recover this wasted energy.
I'm on the skeptic side that says that the energy you recover is not enough to make a noticeable difference in your mileage simply because the process of generating the HHO simply is not that efficient.
Good luck with your project - I'd love to be proved wrong!
Last edited by UK-C200; 07-23-2008 at 08:44 PM.
07-24-2008, 10:44 AM
#50
Member
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Orlando, Fl
Posts: 172
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
My gas sipping C-Class
Then I guess adding a supercharger or turbo is probably a waste of time too.
Both of them require and use energy. They pull energy from the motor, but are designed to give back more than they take. A turbo, obviously needing less energy to produce boost, than a belt driven charger.
I'm not saying HHO will work, just saying that the idea of taking energy from an engine to create more net energy has been done.
Scott
