moscit

Hi All

My C230 coupe (8 months old - 13000KM) flashed an oil level warning the other day and when I checked the oil level it was 2 liters low. I immidiately brought it in to the dealership only to have the service rep tell me that this is within normal range for MB.

Has this happened to anyone before, is this actually normal? I've had other brand cars and never had to add any oil apart from scheduled oil changes. It seems excessive to me, but he did not want to run any diagnostics. They just topped it up and sent me off, assuring me there is nothing to be concerned about.

I'd like to get an idea of what other owners' experiences are with oil consumption with new cars. Should I be worried?

Thanx for your feedback,

Jerry MB230K

To summarize.. you drove 13,000 km and you had to add 2 litres of oil.
Assuming that when you bought your car , the oil level was full, and Full is about 4 litres, then you lost/burned 2 litres.
Although no one likes this to happen, it's not unusual. After your car gets its first oil change, check the oil level and monitor the oil use more frequently and use the dipstick to check oil level.

Vince

i'm having the same problem. My car has 26K on it.
I just got my oil changed about 1500 miles ago. I don't think that my car should be consumming that much oil. I'm bringing my car in friday to have this checked. This is the fourth or fifth time that this has happened. As much as i don't want to say this, but does anyone know if this qualifies under the lemon law. I love my car, but if i'm only going to have problems...

MarkL

Last year a coupe owner mentioned that his oil was 2qts down at about 2000 miles, I believe. He hadn't been monitoring the level with the computer (or dipstick). At the time, others said it was not out of the ordinary for the 2.3 to use oil. On the other hand, V6 owners have not noticed such a drop. I never added oil for my C240 in the 10K miles prior to my "A" service.

sdcaclint

i had to take my car to the dealer this morning for this same problem. i have 8000 miles on my car, and can't believe that this is normal. this is the third time that my car has been to the dealer. they told me this was normal consumption. actually the tech said that he looked it up, and that 0.8 liters of oil can be consumed per 1000 km's. wow. i would expect this sort of oil consumption from a 10 year old hyundai not a 7 month benz.

20FHK02

I remember periodically added some oil prior to service A for a total of one quart. My car has had 5000 miles since service A and there seems to be no noticeable consumption. I check the oil level using the dipstick.

Outland

Some oil consumption is normal in new motors. The synthetic oil doesn't help the situation...it requires longer for motors to break in. The engine holds like 6 or 7 seven quarts of oil.

Mike T.

I know that mbtech208 wrote some time ago that M-B considers up to 1.0 L per 1000 km (about a quart every 600 miles) to be normal oil consumption. Most carmakers say something like that to cover their fesses.

From my experience over 30 years, I'd say that oil consumption up to 0.5 L per 1000 km during early break-in is possible, but potentially cause for concern. If oil consumption remains above 0.5 L/1000 km after 10,000 km are on the engine, there may be a problem with ring sealing, albeit relatively minor.

When I first got my Peugeot 405, it consumed about 0.25-0.3 L/1000, and today - 280,000 km later - it consumes about 0.3-0.4 L/1000 km, a tiny bit of which is due to leaks (though the car does not drip, the engine is moist with oil underneath). Ironically, engines that consume a little bit of oil like mine does may last longer, as the cylinder walls are probably ever so slightly better lubricated, even for the upper rings, so it may go to a higher mileage, all other things being equal.

For the M111 engine, I'd be concerned if the post break-in oil consumption was near or above 0.5 L/1000 km. Below that, it's a bit of a nuisance, but other than keeping records to monitor the situation, I would not worry too much. Preferably, it would be under 0.25 L/1000 km though.

Ours needed 1 L after 7000 km. So assuming the sump was full when the car was new, that's about 0.145 L/1000 km. Over the past 7000 km since the first top-up, it's been fine - I haven't even checked the oil (maybe it's about to say add 1 L again?!?). It's almost time for Service A anyway...

Moscit, your oil consumption is about 0,155 L/1000 km, nothing at all to worry about. Relax.

DCXdynodog

1 qt/ 600 miles is absolutely ridiculous, a 454 chevy built 20 years ago used that much oil. Engines were not honed with torque plates back then, machining tolerances in general were lousy, and sealing technology was poor.

Todays engines should be way better than that in both sealing and consumption. My last Honda used .25 qt / 5k miles from day 1 until roughly 120k miles at which time it gradually increased to 1 qt / 5k miles @ 180k miles. It only held 3.25 qts w/ oil filter! It couldn't afford to burn oil.

Have to admit, this shows the outstanding engineering and quality the Japanese have had over everyone in recent times. They studied well and passed up the professor. If they can do it, the Germans should be able to do it, no?

Benz puts 8 qts in the pan so you won't run out between the ridiculous 10k oil change intervals so they can save a few bucks.

Buellwinkle

For me it varies, 2,000 miles after oil change it will need a quart and then it may be 5,000 miles before adding a 1/2 quart and then the service. This has happened during the first 10k miles and now the same phenomenon during the second 10k. It could just be oil temperature causing evaporation or vicosity changes that make it dissapear faster as it consumed greater amounts of oil in the summer. I've been under my engine several times doing intercoolers, sway bars, springs, pulley, etc. and I've never seen one trace of oil leaking from anywhere to it's consuming it somehow. Also since I installed the larger intercooler the oil consumption reduced, don't know if this is coincidence or not.

speedfrk

My car is like buellwinkle's- it seems to use more oil for no discernable reason only at certain times. It used 2qts the first 5000 miles, and then got much better, but right before the 1st service, the add oil message came on again. I check the level often with the dipstick, so I was surprised when the message came up. So it is averaging about 1 qt per 3000 miles now. Not terrible but not what you would expect from a new MB. Of course now I don't expect anything from them. I sort of expect the worst. Have to take it in for the dreaded ESP/BAS errors now. If the resale/trade-in wasn't so terrible, I'd get rid of it. But I can't afford to take the loss on it after only a year.

moscit

Thanx to all for the info.

Sounds like this is somewhat normal behaviour for the car. I was just worried since I did not expect this from a brand new german built car. I guess I'll just have to keep an eye on it every once and a while, which is somewhat annoying.

I'm also bringing in the car for the ESP/BAS messages which seems to occur with a good portion of the cars out there.

Has anyone gotten a decent explanation for this from MB?

Buellwinkle

This is the absolute worst time to sell a car. Spring/Fall are best and summer/winter are worst. If you really want to dump it wait until May. You always take a beating the first year, you can almost keep it 2-3 years for close to the same costs. I'm holding out for the 2005 Mustang and by then the warranty we've grown dependent to will be expiring. Have you seen the 2002 5 year dependability survey from JD Powers? MB as a brand didn't even make the list and fell below average. They were #10 last year and I told everyone that it was really generous of the survey, this year proves I'm right.

speedfrk

If you think it is bad this time of year for selling cars, try selling a bike It was 69 here today, and I finally got rid of one I've had advertised for a couple of months. It is supposed to be in the 30's here this weekend- I don't think I'll be selling any.
Back on topic- I have a friend who is a mechanic at a MB dealer in Fla and he told me don't even think about keeping the car after the warranty runs out. But I'm with you on the Mustang. Should be a great car.

levelr123g

Before I post the following thread let me state this:

I DO NOT WORK FOR AMSOIL. I AM AN INDEPENDENT DEALER FOR THEM. I AM NOT TELLING YOU THAT YOU SHOULD USE THIS PRODUCT, THE DECISION IS YOURS. I AM NOT ADVERTISING FOR THEM, JUST SIMPLY SUPPLYING INFORMATION THAT MIGHT BE OF VALUE TO THIS POST.

You may find this thread useful, you may not. The area which I think is most important to read is the NOAK VOLATILITY TEST. I beleive this may answer some of the problems you are experiencing. I also had the same problem with my car until I switched it to the Amsoil 0-30. I have not added a drop of oil since May of last year when I drained the Mobil1 out and put this in. These are just MY observations in MY vehicle and cannot speak for the other vehicles on the road.

http://www.amsoil.com/performancetes..._vs_mobil1.htm

Jim Banville

And? The first year depreciation of your MB is AVERAGE. You seem to make it sound WORSE than average. The dealer gave us approx. $10k less for the '01 Eddie Bauer Expedition we traded-in on our '02 C240 compared to what we paid 1 year previous! The sticker was around the mid-$30's. The Mercedes and Audi dealers we visited were going to give us $26 for it Checking Edmunds now I see the average trade-in value for our old '01 Ford is now down to $21K

Take out all references to the poor ML class and see where MB lands (my guess=average). I could care less how MB as a whole ranks in reliability since I have no intention in ever owning 75% of their offerings. The 4 door C, E and S classes are the only ones I'd ever buy, and they are all either average or better in terms of relaibility of every survey/report I've ever seen.

speedfrk

Jim, you make my point perfectly...MB has "average" trade-in. Actually using your numbers, 5% worse than a Ford. Somehow in my delusional state of mind, I was expecting MB to be better than Ford. 33% depreciation in one year just seems a little high to me for a MB. I bet Lexus, Acura, BMW, etc all have much better figures than that. Anyway, the point is that MB is at best an average car when it come to reliability and resale. If you look at my personal experience, it is worse than average. In my opinion, average sucks.

session

I diligently check my oil and I've never had to refill other than at scheduled maintenance time. Then again, I had my service A at 8000 miles.

Jim Banville

Yes, people do have unrealistic expectations for MB's. And there are MANY factors involved in vehicles resale value, general reliability not being a high priority.

I'll take that bet! As posted in your "coupe depreciation" thread...

What did I win?

DCXdynodog

Ya gotta go with Honda if you want good resale value.

I had a $12,500 Civic SI for 10 years and 180k miles and when it got totalled last July I was able to get $4000 from the insurance do to the extremely high resale. I coulda scrapped that car and not had much to cry about :p

I feel the same as you, it just doesn't seem right does it?
Some published data I looked at showed good resale for the MB brand but not as good as Honda, I don't recall the #'s but it was maybe 5-6% less. And of course MB dealers tell you how great resale value is...hmmm... I wonder what else they fudge?

Like realestate, with MB, it seems location is huge. Here in MI you can't get the deals I see people bragging about out in California and some other areas and I think that helps keep prices up. Resale here looks pretty good when I've done surveys of local auto ads. Of course they will probably take a dive now that the new coupes are coming out.

Cullen

My c230k (2002) has 23,000 miles on it. So far I have had to add 2 quarts of oil. My estimation is about a quart per 10k.

Jim Banville

A 2003 Accord LX is $19K. A 2002 Accord LX has a trade-in of $12K. That is in line with the first year 1/3 depreciation average (for trade-in) for any other mass produced passenger car. The depreciation slows down every year thereafter.

According to www.kbb.com, the current "private party value" (higher than trade-in value) of a '91 Civic Si w/ 180k is $2400.

I'm still waiting to hear what I won from the bet with Speedfrk

Deb

I don't remember the mileages exactly anymore, but I had to add oil twice before the A service. I added one qt at about 3k miles and another 3/4 qt at about 5k miles. After the A service, two weeks ago at 10,800 miles, I checked the oil after I got home out of curiosity. I was amazed and mad to find that it was one qt low (confirmed with dipstick). So the first lesson is, don't assume that your car has its full ration of oil on delivery or when returned from dealer after service. BTW, my service advisor was just as mad as I was when I told him that my car came back from the oil change low on oil.

To fix the BAS/ESP error messages, they changed the "wiring harness" (dealer called it something else) and all has been well ever since. This seems to be the fix for that particular glitch.

speedfrk

Well, if you only take the model with the worst depreciation like the IS300, you might win, but if you take overall brand resale, you lose. However, since you insist, you win the right to trade cars with me. I will even pay the difference in MSRP between the two.
BTW, you calculate depreciation using the original price paid for the car, not the current year's price.

DCXdynodog

Dude,

Get a clue. Glad your not doing my bidding.