vyse

Only if they had a S40R .. oh man! Do they still have the S40 in BTCC?? With 300hp and AWD, a S40R would definietely have enough to back up the looks of a BTCC bodykit on a street car Move aside M3!

AlpharettaC32

As they're currently carrying the Ford profitability flag, it's about time they started to get some more attention for building a faster/sportier car. I'm not sure what directions Volvo is going in (the SUV one minute, and the return of the R flag now), but they've obviously been green-lighted.

I hope this works for them, as I really liked my 850. But, this has got "Viggen Redux" written all over it. This car is three years late.

As a C32 owner, I'm not concerned or biased...but "amused" might be a pretty good word, especially when someone says that the AMG could feel mushy by comparison. No offense, but I'm not going to believe the opinion of one rather non-respected car mag and the write-up on a corporate webpage to contradict several years experience with several cars that wore the Volvo badge.

The T5R was built to go fast in a straight line, it couldn't handle at all. It body rolled like a barrel going over a waterfall.

Simply my $0.02.

vadim

Let's not forget that the 850/S70 platform dates back to 1991. It's simply not fare to compare it to C32. The current P2 platform all Volvo sedans are based on is a totally different thing. The upcoming S60R is their first real contender in the sport sedan segment. I still can't understand how one can judge a car that's not even out yet by attributing it features of its model predecessor in comparison with the latest generation sport sedans that didn't even exist when that model came out. This is like comparing an E46 M3 to a W124 E300.

FrankW

as usual, I'm late to the thread...lol

I think S60R is definitely a bang for less buck. 300hp + AWD means you get to play in the raining season too. But I wouldn't compare the S60R to the C32, M3 or the new S4 yet. First of all the price range of the S60R is much less than the other three. Second is that with the NEW S4 pushing 340 hp out of the V8, M3 at 333, and the C32 at 349. The S60R's 300 seems not quite enough. Performance wise the 5.4 second (TopGear mag) 0-60 mph is good enough to stay up with the NEW S4 (5.2 0-60), but not quite quick enough to catch the M3 (4.8) and the C32 (4.9). I think that Volvo should've bring this car out two years ago when C43 was still on sale. It would've been more effective against the AMG, S, and the M back then. All in all, S60R is a great car for the buck. It would be the fourth car on my list: C32, M3, S4, then S60R. Handling wise, hands down to the M3 then the S4 (haven't seen one in action yet, but that's my guess) then the C32. S60R will probably be softer than all three Germans, after all the "R" stands for "refine" in Volvo's own explaination.

just to clearify, my opinion is based on not thinking about mods.

AlpharettaC32

I'd be glad to compare the C32/M3/S4/Viggen/WRX/Neon R/T/etc to a Volvo made in the past two/three/four/five years that is built for anything other than the express purpose of selling people on carrying their children, yet no vehicle exists. But, I'm equally stunned that you can look at the stats on a Volvo website and claim it superior to a car that is actually on the road today. Especially when it's their 'first real contender in the sport sedan segment.' I guess using the past as an indicator of future results doesn't rank as high as purported statistics. I'm impressed you have that much faith in a Year One vehicle.

And we all know car mags are spot-on with their testing. After all, according to some mags, my car does 0-60 in 4.6 seconds.

Hrm.

vadim

Again, either you are unaware or just trying to twist the facts. If you remember, when Volvo's T5R came out in mid-90s, it posted some serious numbers (5.9 sec 0-60). As for "carrying children" theme, what is the purpose of, say, an E Class wagon? Drag racing?

AlpharettaC32

When did I say it wasn't fast in a straight line? In fact, I said exactly that the T5R was built to go fast in a straight line!!! I questioned its handling (go back and reread my posts before you get accusatory..it's the post to which you responded by waxing poetic on the new Volvo chassis. HTH.) saying that it rolls like a barrel. And that's WITH factory sway bars attached!

The difference between Mercedes and Volvo is that MB does not pitch every vehicle for the express purpose of carrying a family. Certain cars are spun purely for performance (AMG) or by their very existence are impractical for this purpose (SL/SLK).

As I said, I will compare any sports car to a vehicle built by Volvo that was not built for the express purpose of being a family carrier. As no such Volvo exists, that comparison of contemporary vehicles is impossible. This again, is from an earlier post of mine in this same thread.

I'm not sure if you're confused or just not paying attention, but I think the only thing 'mushy' here is your logic.

vadim

My logic is very simple: I can clearly see a prejudice against Volvo (based on lack on information, I guess). The original post was about a NEW sport sedan from Volvo, not handling characteristics of other Volvo models. Funny here, as soon as Volvo's remarkable "straight line" performance is quoted, a lot of people (mostly C32 owners, BTW) start screaming about its "mushy handling". Is this what you call logic?

C230K

May be they think they are race car drivers, venture to say that 80% fo the "handling sport sedans) are never driven to their limit and are commuters, if you like it, drive it and enjoy and do not bash each other on stats. If you race it, then handling counts, on the track of course and that's a different story.

bagwell

I would gladly take the S60R

....I like the look of the S60...I actually had one for a few months...but it was just a base eng model with leather/roof/etc...168hp I think (same as C240) it was fine..a little quirky seats but I liked it.

Car was very sloid...the doors are 12" thick !

The S60R looks like a winner to me...I can't wait to see it tested against a 330i or M3 and a C320 or C32 - although it should be approx the same price as the 330i/C320 hopefully.

eason

Many of Volvo's turbo engines have some rooms for more hp. I tuned my friend's 2001 V40, can easily get 40+ hp with some simple bolt-ons (from 160hp to 210hp).

AlpharettaC32

Yes, as we're discussing a car that nobody here has driven and is not on the streets here, I'd say that there is a distinct lack of information. The impressive thing is that you can extrapolate the car to be better than the C32 based on a website writeup and feel that it's logical, but any of us who go the opposite route and extrapolate from prior data (such as, oh I don't know, 5 years of ownership) are "prejudiced."

That's not logic; that's naivete.

If you're going to have your cake, and eat it too, please share. I for one would love to know what you're putting in it.

But maybe as a former owner, I'm just prejudiced.

But I do have a question for you: If you're going to say that the S60R would make the C32 feel mushy, please detail the amount of time you've spent behind the wheel of each to make such a comment...since otherwise, you're prejudiced.

mctwin2kman

I told my wife about this and she loved the idea. 300Hp and AWD would be perfect for us. We are looking for an SUV for our next car in a year and a half. Thinking about the new Volvo SUV and the Nissan Xterra SC, now with this in the mix of an AWD vehicle with some sweet looking HP numbers and it comes in the wagon as well for less than a C320. The prices are on the Volvo site. The S60R is starting at $33,000 and the V70R is starting at around $38,000 as I recall. Not too bad for that vehicle.

FrankW

I thought it's $36k and $38k

mctwin2kman

FrankW you are right I just looked again. I was being lazy and going from memory not looking at it as I just did. Still not bad price range for a vehicle with 300Hp and AWD compared to a 4-matic C320 which as we know has less power. For the people that want power but may be willing to sacrifice in the handling department. Then again for the savings you could get a suspension upgrade. Of course we do not know how this will handle yet, but if it handles great then it is even more of a shot at BMW and MB against the C32 and the M3.

vadim

Ah... that's what got you so excited... To clarify and calm you down - I have never said that it is better than C32. However, with its active body control it just might handle on a par - the C32 is not a top handler among fast cars, that's a commonly accepted fact. In any event - we'll see when this car is out. But I still can't see the point in your pointing to your previous Volvo ownership - you didn't own the car being discussed, but its model/platform predecessor instead. And - yes, I do agree that the 850/S70 handling can't be described as sporty. Ok for a family sedan, though.

Citron

I started with a 240GL (the tank) it was a great car, but I lusted over the 850T5R when those came out.

Other volvos I've driven:
740 turbo - not a bad car
940 turbo - i used to love taking this out w/o the parents. Until one night I was doing about 80, driving hard and heard a *thunk* *reeeeeeeeeer* then all the electronics went out and the car stopped. I thought I was gonna die. luckily some bolts had come loose and I only ruined 3rd and 4th gear.

That car was sooo close to a lemon I'm not sure why it's still in the garage.

Anyways I was close to getting an S40 and squeezing some hp out of it with IPD parts, but it was way too loud and the 3-pointed star was calling.

thats my bumbling story.
-C