bdgdl08

So I was driving on a Saturday night about a week ago with two of my friends. We weren't doing anything stupid like speeding or anything like that, just driving around for fun. We decided to go into this new apartment complex that was being built, just to see what was back there. The road of the apartments was freshly paved and coated with a layer of sand, and went uphill to the main road with a bump at the top.

As I turned out of the complex and accelerated my wheels spun a bit going from the sandy smooth road to the main road, and made a screeching noise before the ESP kicked in. Because I was pulling out into traffic my engine was, at that point, about 3500 RPM. As soon as I pulled out and sped up, a cop (Alachua County Sheriff) pulls out of the next road opposite the apartment complex. He follows me (without his red and blues on) for HALF A MILE, speeding to catch up, and tailgating me once he did. I did not exceed the speed limit.

He finally pulls me over and yells for me to step out of the car. I do and he asks my if I knew why he pulled me over. I didn't really know, but I figured he was pulling me because of my broken tail that exposes one of my running lights. He tells me it's for "all that wheel spinning nonsense back there." He asks me if there was a reason, and tries to lead me to say that I was "showing off for my friends," which I did not confirm. He finally writes me a hand-written ticket for careless driving and $150. He only checked careless driving and wrote "careless driving" in the details section, and only wrote down 3 digits of my license plate #. He also tried to tell me that my seatbelt wasn't on, which is absurd in my car that "yells" at you relentlessly until you put it on.


So I went to the court registrar to get a court date to fight the ticket 3 DAYS LATER, and the lady tells me that the ticket hasn't been submitted. She submitted it and I have a court date on August 3rd. The thing that makes me laugh/cry is that when he pulled out to come after me, his tires screeched and he fishtailed!

I have only been pulled over one other time, for speeding (just because I was following someone who was speeding and the cop pulled me instead of them), and I took the drivers course, so I can't do that now. I hate cops. They just profiled 'cause I'm 19 driving a Benz, and I had my Arab (Indian) friend in the car. I never got pulled in my CLK though, and the speeding ticket was in my mom's Accord.

BigBodyBenzC240

I thought the cop writes down a date on the ticket when you need to appear in court on the ticket if you do plan on fighting it. Thats the way all mine have been but maybe NY is different. I would have found it odd that he only wrote down a few of your plate number when writing your ticket. Looks like he got the best of you.

bdgdl08

In FL you go and get a court date. I doubt he'll show, especially after like 3 months. I really don't think that he thought that the ticket was legit. I think he followed be to try to get me to speed and when I didn't, he tried to get me to say that I was being careless.

LILBENZ230

Cops.. can't live with or without them. 19? Didn't you tell me to stop in next time I was in Florida and have a beer with you? I'm just giving you a hard time. I would have been like "I have a 2.5L V6, 3 people in the car, and a tyrant computer that calls itself ESP - do you really think I could do any tire spinning nonsense if I tried?"

I wouldn't worry too much about it, honestly. I doubt he shows. I certainly wouldn't pay the ticket, I'd fight it. It's jerks like this that give the good cops (they do exist) a bad name. I have two short little cop stories..

I let a 19 year old hispanic guy I know drive my Benz one night with some other people and I was in the back. We got pulled over for no apparent reason. I sat quietly in the back seat as the cop asked him if he knew why he was being pulled over and he said he didn't. We weren't speeding and we were all wearing seatbelts. The cop said "your tag is showing expired." My tag clearly had the DEC 2009 sticker displayed and I suddenly realized what the cop was doing. I said "The hell it is! This is my car and the registration is in the sunvisor." The cop said it was a "mistake" and apologized. BS.

The second one I got legitimately pulled over for speeding. 74 in a 55. All was fine until the cop said "I know your car is fast but it ain't made of much." and that offended me. I said "Apparently you've never driven a Benz." I got the ticket, but oh well.. it was just $65.

silence

smart cop- if he had written you a "real" ticket as opposed to the careless driving then he would have had to actually prove you did something. you are sort of screwed.

LILBENZ230

The burden of proof is always on the prosecution in this country. So the cop will need to show up in court that day and I am skeptical. I would be honest and say during the transition of sand-covered roadway to asphalt the tires lost traction but ESP immediately prevented any wheelspin. I don't think he's screwed at all.

W203E35

I don't know the tips and tricks of FL but here in SoCal all you have to do is extended it. Keep on getting an extension and usually the cop never shows up.

Also you don't have to pay the red light camera ticket. This is how that works. On the back of the ticket there is a part where it says if it's not you you check it and write who it is. All you have to do is write that it's not you and send it in. You are not obligated to write who it is. Don't get fooled and send in those Camera captured red light tickets.

It's their job to investigate who it is and most of the time they don't do through the trouble,


This works best if the car is not registered to you (registered to your dad or mom) sucks for me because mine is :-(

http://www.highwayrobbery.net/redlightcamsticket.htm

"It's Not Me!"

If it's not you in the photo, you don't have to identify the person driving.

Is your name on the ticket, but it's someone else in the picture? In California, these tickets can put a point on your driver's license, so they have to have a picture of your face. A picture of your license plate doesn't establish that you personally did the crime - it only establishes that your car did it, and anyone could have been driving your car.
There are two different "It's not me!" situations.
(1) If the police sent you a paper that looks like a ticket, but it doesn't give the name and full address of the Court, or it says, "Do not contact the court" (in small print on the back of the page), it may not be a real ticket at all; it may be a fake ticket, what I call a "Snitch Ticket." Go to the section titled "Police Going Too Far...," above, to read about those.
(2) If your ticket gives the name and full address of the Court and says you are to go there or "respond to" the Court by a certain date, that's a genuine ticket - keep reading here.

It's a Real Ticket - but "It's Not Me!"

The easiest way to dispose of an "It's not me!" ticket is to give the police the name of the person who was actually driving. But if you don't want to turn them in, you don't have to.


Even though there is no law
requiring you to identify the driver,
most police departments, and even some courts,
will tell you that you must.
It is OK for the police to make such a false/misleading statement - they are allowed to lie to you!
But it is not OK for the court to do so.

iJimpanzee

^ wow.

Nice info.

But aren't the red light cameras sooo freaking good that they generally capture the face of the driver?

And what excuse would you use when the cop lies and tries to trick you into telling?
What do you do then? Lie to him?

JoSH.D

that's BS..
i got a speeding ticket few month back..."temple city sheriff"..they didn't sent me a letter or whatever..so i waited till a day before the court day to go to the court and get it extended..and the lady told me its not in the system yet..tells me to check it online every 3 weeks...
its now about 2 month, and still....can't find the ticket..thinks i got luck this time

C230 Sport Coup

Exactly.
Well I feel for this guy. 19 and so honest he goes to the court and it's not submitted.
1st rule of ticket fighting. Tickets not submitted are tickets which do not exist.
If by some chance it went to a warrant, you would then go to the court and get a court date.
And like others said, delaying can be a good tactic, but
then again, not "waving time" can be a good tactic too.
Waving time means, you have the right to a speedy trial.
They have 45 days to find you guilty or case dismissed, thats from date of arraignment.

While most courts will dismiss a case the 1st time a cop doesn't show, they don't HAVE TO if you "wave time" and then they can bring you back forever.
San Jose CA is Famous for this...FYI, never wave time with these A holes.
I've even seen judges ask people, 'well the officer didn't show up, would you mind coming back?" and the idiots said yes. My case came up, I said no, and my case was dismissed and they looked up in horror as they were getting their papers from the clerk, realizing that they had the option to say NO.

Just about anywhere else, you can delay delay delay and by the time you show up,
the cop won't. Try to make it close the court date, call and fax your reason to the judge for an extension.
When you do, you'll be asked to 'wave time'. You have no choice if you want the extention.
But by delaying, you can finally be scheduled around a major holiday or like the middle of summer or Christmas when either they're on vacation, or all are being deployed in the field, and no time for
piddly **** tix.

It's a crap shoot. Both have worked for me.
In the cases where I delayed, most were ligit, but then again, I also would delay to avoid getting too many points on my record...
like say I got a ticket coming off in 6 months,
and this one would put me at 3 points (ie 3 tickets) .
Thats sure to double my rates, so I delay till the one comes off before I
finally show up for the recent one.

In one instance I delayed 3 times, and actually received a letter stating that the police dept. was giving in...dropping the case, I sheet you not. "No further action is due on your part".

I got to be quite the expert at this sheet, and managed to have 10 consecutive tickets DISMISSED over the course of say 10 years!
I finally got nailed by a cop who actually bothered to show up,
and that was for an illegal U-turn.

Prior to that I was a good citizen and got screwed repeatedly by unscrupulous cops and courts.

Tickets paid were reported to the DMV as unpaid, and once the same court reported 3 tickets unpaid, and the DMV suspended my license.
It was a major Clusterfk, by the time I knew I had been suspended, my insurance carrier dropped me, my employer wanted the keys the truck I had been given, wow. It was messed.

So a trip to the court, well actually 2 courts and PAY them for the
"abstracts". They absolutely had a record of my paying the tix, yet informed the DMV I hadn't.
The 2nd court couldn't find the file, and THEN
oh geez, I lost all the abstracts and had to get them AGAIN!

So back again to the same courts, get the abstracts and straight to the DMV. I asked the DMV to get copies...but they don't give copies, nor will they sell them.

The DMV lost 2 out of 3 of the abstracts, only 1 ticket cleared, so AGAIN
back to the court to get the abstracts and back to the DMV and finally resolved.
These "abstracts" are piece of legal paper to tell the DMV that in fact you had paid the tickets long ago.
You need one for each ticket, and the cost back then was $5 each + standing in line for hours.
I think I made about 10 bucks an hour after taxes back then so pretty much a days wages went to this crap.

After that I got wise, and I refuse to send the pigs a dime of my hard earned cash without a fight.

That and the fact that they lied when about stuff they wrote me up for,
bogus tickets and the like, AND when I was 18 or 19 they put a GUN to my head and said I was lucky I didn't get killed once they figured out I wasn't the guy who had robbed the
gas station across the street...which BTW, I knew the guy who worked there when it was robbed by 5 hispanic dudes ON FOOT, and I'm just one white guy in a car.
No apology.

Moral of the story, don't give them an inch, don't believe you can't win, because YOU CAN, and NEVER EVER EVER walk in and ask why you aren't on the docket the day you were scheduled for, as they will as you say "submit it" and assign you a new court date.

Never plead guilty just say 'nolo contondre' if you must and ask for a reduced fine and time to pay,
and use every dirty trick, because if you don't, they will.


Since my 10 winning streak was broken, I still had one more dismissed, I never paid it but it took 5 years to go to a warrant. It was in a county far far away....Humbolt actually...I figured they were stoned, and yup, they were. Never paid it, and when speaking to the clerk was told, it was a 'in county' warrant, not a state warrant, go figure, so I just stayed away, and waited till it showed up 5 years later counting on the cop like retiring or moving to another district or losing his notes. A ticket not paid is still not a point on your record...it's just in limbo till it's a conviction.

So yes, I drove ALL THE WAY from the bay area to humbolt twice just to not give these SOB's my money.
Showed up once for the arraignment and once for the trial and of course, no cop case dismissed.
And I got a fine suspended on another but still got the point, dammit.

In any case I don't seem to get tickets as much.
My $50 radar detector helps, a better one would be better, but
anything is good, and keep it slow in populated areas.

Though that being said I got popped on the Oregon border about 6 months ago..
damn it cost nearly $300 for the fine and traffic school, but no points.
Moving radar and a CHP, out of Doris. Damn. What a crap hole of a town.

And I did a "trial by delaration" in Sacramento and lost. Someday I'd like to see their response, but oh well. Never got around to it. One guy I know did this and said he was innocent, and the cop discriminated because he was Asian. The cop never wrote a response, case dismissed.

If I seem to regard this all as a game, well, FYI so do the cops. I've had them alie, put a gun to my head, search without cause, go through my stuff, and trash everything,
the DMV lose that paperwork, so it doesn't pay to pay them, and forget it, because they'll screw something up.
It's all about revenue and meeting quotas. Say nothing when you get a ticket to make yourself
memorable, and never incriminate yourself, no idea why you were pulled over.

One ticket, I had just returned from a biz trip, and they had put up these no right turn signs, and were pulling people over en masse. I was like WTF? When did these go up? They said oh, like 3 days ago.
So, they got like 10 other people just at my 200 person company alone. Some paid it, some went to traffic school, I went to court. And guess what. The cop called in and ASKED that the ticket be dismissed "in the interests of justice". I didn't know what they meant, but then a guy who went to traffic school told me, that they are required to only issue WARNING tickets for the 1st 30 days after a signage change, and all the tickets they had written were illegal! When I was pulled over, they were pulling over 10 people at a time!!! So, yeh, they play games, mess with you and do illegal stuff.
I was the only one that went to court. I won.
They don't send people's money back when they do illegal stuff.

Likely some cop is reading this and grinding his teeth. Sorry dude.

I think at this point my record is clean. The Sac one just came off, and then the traffic school one...
crossing my fingers! I keep it slow these days, well, mostly but had a fun time on hwy 1 a month or so ago from Big Sur to Cambria.
BTW- the Sac one it was a cop in an airplane at like 3000 ft elevation who said I was speeding but the guy on the ground did not witness it, he stated I was going 45 mph! nor can they read a license plate from that high...I don't think...so they cheated. But that time I lost....oh well.

If you do a trial by declaration and lose you can then go to real traffic court and the original decision will be set aside. Then you can get the copy of the officers response and see what his case is.
For me, I was too far away to fight it. But I asked some local Sac police about it while getting coffee, and they said I got screwed. But it was CHP.

Geez I got all worked up and typed a damn book!
Well, hope it helps somebody.
I hear these A holes (instructors, before you could do it online) in traffic school tell people
'you can't win'. They want you to believe that.
You know when the police aren't being on the up and up and so will the judge.
The cop won't show for fear of embarrassment, I can only guess,
but thats how I won 10 times in a row, they just didn't show up.

One time I had an honest CHP officer teaching the class..he was shaking his head,
like 1/2 the people in the class shouldn't have been there.

The only time I actually argued my case, with the cop there, for passing a truck with 3 tons of stuff on a one ton truck on a steep grade, with his Emergency Blinkers on, and going about 5 mph, the judge waived the fine. But gave me the point. That really pissed off the cop....he got me a while later with a bogus seat belt ticket, apparently to get even (he made references to our prior meeting in court and asked if I wanted to try to argue a visual speeding ticket in court with him) I chose to just pay it at $30.
I argued that the fact the emergency blinker were on, constituted a hazard to me the vehicle directly behind him. 5 other people + the cop passed all them to get to me. I felt the truck was the one in violation for going up such a steep road obviously and dangerously overloaded, + he didn't pull over to let people by.

I could've got off on prejudice...maybe?? He was 100 yards away...to far to tell anything...he recognized my car...and wanted revenge.

THE END
(I hope)

W203E35

Put on a fake mustache when you drive with sun glasses looool

Mu9enx

Good post my dude!

W203E35

The best is to know your rights. These cops use any kind of ruthless lies and tricks to catch people.

For speeders: Get a radar detector (Valentine 1) or the kind that is installed in the car.

For our pot smokers (in Cali): Get legit go get a canibus (weed) card. Ask around for 150 you can get that. There are a lot of doctors and since the economy is pretty bad you'll be amazed how quick docs jump on the offer.

Seatbelts: Just wear it.

Red lights: Don't run them chances are you are going to catch up at the next red light.

Stop Signs: Stop it's only 2 sec difference.

Just my .02 cents

denice25

That's pretty bad man.....

Onizuka

I just got a speeding ticket yesterday...this thread is very useful.
+1!

LILBENZ230

Wouldn't the correct answer about the speeding be "Don't Speed"? Then it would have went along with the "follow the rules" thing about wearing the belt and not running stop signs or redlights! Haha

Seriously guys I don't have this much trouble with police here and there are a lot of them.

bdgdl08

Thanks everyone, makes me feel alot better! I know it's a bunch of BS, but it's just aggravating! I doubt he can prove i did anything "careless," and I think that the court, giving me a date nearly 3 months away, did enough postponing for me.

Thanks C230 Sport Coup, I enjoyed reading your book. As for actually submitting the ticket, I didn't want to, but the lady didn't give me the option... but reading it and asking what I did, she thought it was BS too.

Matt, I did say to get together next time you came to FL, but made no mention of beer (unless of course you want to supply it... lol). And being told my car wasn't made of much would offend me too. But a $65 dollar ticket is damn cheap... the minimum they give here is at least $100. Mine for speeding was, i think, $180+... or maybe it was $280... can't remember.

As for getting points, 3 points for 3 tickets is really low. Maybe the system's different, but a moving violation here is 3 point per. And if you're going more than 20 over it's 4 points. My speeding ticket before was 3 points, I took the class, but that was over Christmas, so I can't take the class again, and this is another three points. I wouldn't really care much, I don't think my insurance will go up if I get the points since it the first time to have points on my license, but I didn't tell my dad about the last one, and haven't really mentioned this one either, and if I get this he'll tell me to take the class and I'll have to fess up to everything. So I hope the cop doesn't show... I doubt he will.

LILBENZ230

Contributing to the delinquency of a minor, eh? Actually I don't drink, personally. Can't stand the taste of any alcohol.

Yeah the tickets are cheap in my county and city. 19mph over in the county is $65. In the city it's $84. Has been that for years. The officer had it all wrong. My car is not actually fast, but it is built like a tank. He came across as the ignorant hick he was as soon as he made the comment. I was getting the ticket either way, but honestly I wouldn't have been able to contain the comment I made regardless.

C230 Sport Coup

For those who have never heard of Nolo Press, they are a company out of Berkely that writes legal guide books for the common man.

See here, good article, and then see the books on the left.
I have the one fighting your tickets in Cali, but they have other ones too.
All forms are included etc.
http://www.nolo.com/article.cfm/pg/1...E/104/263/ART/

A must have.

Also there's some cheesy books out there on fighting tickets that suggest doing all kinds of dumb things, but some of the tactics they suggest are useful, like delaying when wanting time for other tickets to drop off,
or not waiving time to force the officer to make it to court the 1st time, or not at all. ie case dismissed. But many of the things they suggest will just **** off the officer.

There's a site out there that you can join, I forget the url that will send you the actual manuals for the individual types of radar guns, and
the actual specs, and whether or not, the unit was even capable of reading your speed based on position, speed, and other vehicles in the area.
I haven't had the occasion to use it, but keep in mind .2 tickets on your record is likely to double your rates for 3 years.

Thats a minimum of about 3 grand over 3 years including fines that 2nd ticket is gonna cost you even for an older guy like me, so it's well worth fighting for, even if you know damn well you are guilty.
Giving money to the gov and insurance companies won't change anything.
Do your penance in private, realize your mistake, try not to make it again.

And yes, I generally drive very carefully these days, lots of police where l live. But hey, once in a while, it's easy to get up to 80 or be passing someone and get going fast, and bam, they got you.

Buellwinkle

In California, it's called exhibition of speed (VC 23109(c)), a very serious offense with mandatory jail time (24 hour min, 90 days max) and heavy fines, probably on par with drunk driving. I'm sure a lawyer would be required since it's a misdemeanor, not just a violation. If you were under 18, you would have lost your license until age 21. You are so lucky you only do stupid things in Florida. $150 is a joke, here you would have spent closer to $1,500+ between lawyer and fines.

From my understanding they consider exhibition of speed the needless of spinning of tires or in the case of a motorcycle, doing wheelies.

W203E35

I don't want to sound like an "A Hole" but this jail time part is false. I recieved an exhibition of speed. This was 3 years ago and while making a U turn I pressed the gas all the way. Fishtailing and smoke everywhere a police officer stopped me, read me my rights and cited me. It was a misdimeanor and I went to court. I got fined 800 dollars and was put on probation for 1 year. I never had to do jail time. Also you won't have to spend 1,500 for lawyers and fines. Number one there is a public defender and number two Exhibition of Speed is no where close to an DUI.

I friend was clocked in at 109MPH and he paid a 780.00 fine and was released. He didn't have to do time or anything. His car didn't get inpounded.

What he did isn't considered an exhibition of speed. There was loose gravel and it chirped out. He would have got one if he did an intense burn out. (Fishtale and leaving a huge skid mark on the pavment)

All y ou need to do is get a public defender and they will bargain it down. I know a guy who got a "Weed ticket" and the public defender bargained it down to "Disrupting the Peace" big difference because if your caught with drugs you don't get Financial Aid for school.

Maybe the laws are tougher now but again your public defender can bargain it down.

bdgdl08

Holy hell!!! Sounds like a nightmare! I just don't think that my wheels spinning a bit constitutes careless driving because I was not doing a burnout, nor did I fishtale... or exceed the speed limit. The cop broke more laws than I did, which is illegal for him because he didn't have his emergency lights on.

itswindee

To the OP, to be on the safe side, I'd take pictures of where the cop said you spun the tires - take as many pictures as possible of the driveway of the apartment building etc. and I'd also bring in your friend that was with you as a witness. You never know if the cop will show up or not. Rather be safe than sorry. Good luck!

bdgdl08

Great point! I had thought to bring a witness, but not to take pictures (). The problem is that my friend has a court date at the same place, time, and with the same judge for a bogus ticket he got. If he witnesses for me it might create a bias one way or another. Thank you though.

LILBENZ230

In a C230?

I typically side with California on most issues (this is not a political forum) but it sounds like those exhibition of speed laws are complete and total BS. It's called something like display of power in GA, but again, it's not a major offense. I did a display of power in the process of running a stop sign when I was 17. It was like $100. It was stupid on my part but I was 17.

The punishment is supposed to fit the crime, and I don't think jail time or $1000+ fines fit a burnout unless you're doing some kind of Arab drift down a city street.