AudiDude

Hi all, I'm new to the forum but am already making a second post.

Again, I am considering purchasing a 230K sedan one instead of a new A4 or S60 T5 but have a couple of lingering doubts.

My second area of concern revolves around reliability. Yes, I have searched the forum and seen lots of posts to this, but was hoping for updated information.

* Sedan owners, it seems that the lauch-year car had its share of issues. For those with later models, how has your experience been? Has Mercedes done anything special to improve upon the run for the 2003 model year?

* What particular problems have you had, are there some common ones? I'm talking mechanical and major fit-and-finish issues, not really concerned with rehashing the sunroof problems.

* How many unscheduled shop visits do you have every year?

* How well do the dealers support the 4-yr maintenance free warranty? Is it virtually a no-questions-asked arrangement, like Audi's?

Thanks again everyone!

MarkL

I've got a 2002 C240 6-spd, built at the end of July, 2001. In 15K miles, I've had one mechanical problem -- the steering wheel lock motor jammed which disabled my ignition while away from home. M-B road side assistance (via TeleAid call) arrived on a Sunday night and had the car towed. Fixed the next day at a "foreign" (ie., not my) dealer.

Other than that, there was a slight rustling noise from the passenger headrest which was corrected at my first scheduled "A" service visit. No other unscheduled service, coming up on service "B" in 4300 miles.

trench

I have a coupe, but mechanically they're really not that different under the skin.

I would classify a lot of the unscheduled problems on this forum as being software related - as in the engine throws a code/light and then has to be taken in for a check-up.

There are a couple of minor mechanical issues, one that seems to effect a number of people is balky 1-2 shifts on the manual tranny. However, most of the people who have this problem have been here for a while, I can't recall any of the newer people having this problem, so maybe they've fixed that problem (mine shifts fine by the way).

The only serious mechanical issue I've seen is the cars occasionally stall unexpectedly or go into "limp home" mode - these too most of the time are probably software related, but occasionally have been found to be caused by bad fuel pumps/senders (this has been a problem accross the board for all classes of Mercedes - hopefully they've changed vendors and this won't crop up in the newer ones).

Hope this helps, BT

Buellwinkle

Don't expect the Mercedes to be too reliable and you won't be dissapointed. On the other hand, the 2 cars you noted have reliability issues of their own. Check the JD Powers website and look at the 5 year dependability survey, that's a good guide to see which brands fair better, unfortunately MB, Audi and Volvo are at the bottom half of the list. That's not to say you won't enjoy your purchase as I enjoy my C230 despite it's issues.

TXTiger

No offense, but anything has better reliability than a VW/Audi! I should know, my last car was the last year of the previous A4 and it was repurchased by Audi through a negotiated settlement. I now have a 2002 C240 6 speed, and have had no problems to date. I have had no issues to date regarding service - everyone I've dealt with has been top notch (dealer specific for sure). S60 is a nice car, but you'll get hammered on depreciation costs for it. Good luck with your choice.

bagwell

I like the looks of the S60, but its kind of quirky. The headrests are strange and the rear leg room is pretty tight...more like the A4. The doors are like 12" thick too...for safety.

my C320 has had a few electrical probs (all seat and window controls died), and still does, the radio died, but its never left me stranded.

CRB

Get the Consumer Reports yearbook and look at reliablilty for Mercedes Benz vehicles in general. Most of the black marks are for Electrical (which includes software) and expect this trend to continue. J D Power website says 2002 C-class does't stand out in any area except Body & Interior Quality which is among the best. Those are your two best sources for judging car quaility.

Best of luck on your car buying decision!

electromethod

my brother in law has an A4 with all the bells and whistles.... that thing has given them nothing but trouble once it hit 40K miles.....all kinds of electrical headaches. now they regret not buying the extended warranty. Fun car to drive but they are fixing to dump it... and after driving my 230 sedan, he seemed interested. I am not vouching that my sedan will be headache free... but I spent the extra 1580 for the total of 5 year 100K warranty. Buy it with an extended warranty and drive without a care .

C230 Sport Coup

I'm with electromethod. You have a year to buy the extended warranty. I waited the year to see if I planned on keeping the car....and know for certain I plan to keep my car, (coupe). So, now, I can relax knowing I still have 5 years and another 85K miles to go without worrying about it.

I've had good luck, but it seems there's a few lemons here and there.

Also, check around here in the forum.
Better prices are out there on the warranty.
I paid 1440 for and extra 2 years, and 100K miles.

electromethod

the pricing for the warranties varies from state to state. Florida is a regulated state so they really aren't allowed to cut you a deal on that. I have heard of people getting it in past in other states as low as 1280 but once again.... find out what rules and regulations apply to you.
FYI... the 2 year extended was 1900 plus bucks in florida.

Mercedes101

Mine is a March 2001 Build - almost 2 years old - drive it 140 miles a day round trip - no problems except for a Navigation system which had a mysterious glitch in it - they replaced the Nav without me having to ask twice.

AudiDude

Thanks for the replies, very useful information.

Yes, I don't expect to be buying 'Accord' reliability (not that they don't have their own problems lately), but I do not want to be in the shop more than 3 times a year (unscheduled). Even more important is that my wife does not break down on the side of the road... that's when hating a car becomes easy.

I was going to get a new A4 but the new models seem to be even more trouble than the old. Forget that. Volvo's squeak too darn much after just a few months - even though I can get a used 2002 T5 for about $26k.

At the same time, my father used to own an troublesome 'S' series from the early 90s - glad to hear reliability may be better today than it was (seems to be a hot topic on here though).

Regarding extended warranties, do they offer the same bumper-to-bimper coverage as the original? What's a good resource for research?

Thanks foir the help!

Jim Banville

Buellwinkle wrote...
The C class, which is what you are looking at, has average reliability. Buellwinkle can NOT prove otherwise. The JD Power survey is good if you want to know what the "average" reliability is for the entire MB line, including the less-than-average reliable G and ML classes. Otherwise is it WORTHLESS if you want to know the reliability of the C class
I have a '02 sedan. It has NEVER failed to get me from point A to point B. It has had a few minor electrical nuisance issues.

aborwick

I have a 2002 M-B C320, built December on 26 2001, with delivery January 11, 2002. I have found the car very reliable. I have had one electrical issue, common in the C-Class, concerning an faulty electrical harness which activated Brake Assist/ESP fault codes. The dealership fixed the problem. I have had no other reliability problems with this car. Because the car is mechanically complex, I did buy an extended warranty when I took delivery. I can't speak to the coupe, of course, and any opinion on reliability is somewhat subjective, but I am pleased.

Matt230K

Are you sure about that build date? I don't think you can get a car from Germany that fast. It must be some kind of record.

QQQ

Audidude, I post this sometime last year and now reproduced for your reference. Enjoy.

MY2001 C320 annual medical report (unfortunately, long...)
15 months serving 33,000 kms.

Four medical checkups.
Seven hospital admissions.
One cosmetic surgery.

What it really means:

Normal maintenance

Scheduled A and B service, plus two oil changes in between.
One wheel alignment.

Minor hiccups

Moonroof one-touch open/close malfunction (fixed)
Aspirator fan in overhead console panel buzzing (fixed)
Telescopic wheel squeaking when adjusted (fixed)
Brake squeal (twice, fixed)
Brake pedal squeaking (fixed)
Driver seat squeaking (fixed)
Driver window clicking noise when closed (fixed)
Front passenger headrest vibration at highway speed (fixed)
Smart key cannot unlock doors (fixed)
Smart key fails to store last seat memory (fixed in second attempt)
Turn signal loose (fixed)
Hood misaligned (fixed)

Nagging issues

BAS malfunction (fixed)
Fuel gauge 1/8 tank below actual on cold starts (not fixed)
Car vibration at 80km/h (not fixed)
Central locks intermittently unlocked at driving (not fixed)

Critical life threatening issues

None

Cosmetic surgery

Idiot backed into front bumper scratches no dent

Organ transplants

Electronic ignition switch
2 smart keys
Seat memory module
Aux fuel pump
Fuel sending unit
Right rear tail light
Left rear brake light
Front left low beam
Front left turn signal
Combination switch

Other

One wheel rebalancing


All covered by warranty / insurance. Save for the above, very pleased with the experience.

QQQ

BTW, my car turned 2 yesterday and here's the list of new problems:

Rattling noise at overhead console at highway speed (to be fixed)
Ticking noise from purge valve - a known design issue (to be fixed)
Rear air vent loose (to be fixed)
Squeaking noise when shifting from P to R and vice versa (to be fixed)
Headlamp assembly short circuit recall (fixed)

Run 53,000 km and I was never stranded.

aborwick

Yes, I am. I placed the order in mid-November 2001. The secret to the rapid build is that I selected a car already in the factory production queue assigned to the dealership, but not then assigned to a customer. I simply added the options and colors I desired. Of course, this privilege required a $500 deposit and my signature on a sales contract. I then monitored the production over the dealership's computer link to the factory. December 26 was the build date. What surprised me was the fast shipping time. I did not think the car would cross the Atlantic as quickly as it did. Mercedes uses Wallenius lines for its shipping. I used the dealer's computer to find out what ship the car was on and then got on the Wallenius line's web site and monitored the progress of the ship across the ocean.

Mike T.

Our C 230 K, 2002, failed to start once with the stunningly cold temperature of -2 degrees Celsius (about 29 F) while we were all visiting my sister in Vancouver over Xmas. Of course my old Peugeot with 285,000 km was there too and started as it always does, so the day was saved (we had to drive across town to pick up my Mom).

All the relatives visiting my sister's place that day had a long look at the nice red new Mercedes that would not start.

Plus the roadside assistance was worse than useless. All they could offer was a tow to a M-B dealer the next day; the roadside assistance mechanic does not have diagnostic equipment, apparently.

Note: the above experience amounts to a testimonial, and carries no statistical significance. It does, however, apparently reveal the inherent superiority of French engineering

Mike T.

2) binding driver's window, express up rarely works, not fixed 2x
3) new squeak in closed roof (panorama), to be addressed, loud!
4) BAS/ESP error, common fault, back ordered 2 months
5) driver's headrest adjuster broken, not fixed twice
6) Passenger door window switch fell into door, now fixed


Other than that and the no-start, it's been quite nice. I still don't trust it though and if I had to drive across Canada I'd seriously consider taking the ancient 405 instead

QQQ

Stunningly cold at -2C? Last week it was -20C in Toronto. Now talk about stunningly cold

BTW, my car jumped to life when started

TNblkc230wz

There are lemons in every bunch. Yes, my Accord is one of them. It is so unsafe that will not be able to give it to my daughter. Where MB excells is they will work with you have problems.

Mike T.

Yeah, -2 is stunningly cold when you normally can wear t shirts and shorts outdoors year round, and if it snows in winter it is considered a bit of an anomaly Golf 12 months of the year, in Canada. Gotta love it.

Actually I was making a joke at the car's expense, but I guess that without a smiley the incredibly delicious irony was lost

When I lived in the BC Interior at 1050 m elevation, it routinely got down to -35 degrees overnight in winter and my old 405 would start first time, every time. Sure, it would occasionally throw a few "check engine" codes when driving down the 8% hill to Trail to my office, with stone cold engine, but the car always started and ran.

Not so the M-B I'm afraid. However, I'm sure things will get better. They have to . And with the 7 year 160,000 km warranty which we bought a couple of months back for $1600 CDN, I'm not too worried anyway.

AudiDude

QQQ, thanks for bringing your old post back to life. It was just as good for a laugh as the info...

Great to hear that MB dealers are willing to work on the little squeaks and annoyances. Like most everyone else here I'm a picky person as well.

Is it best to get the extended warranty directly from the dealer? I like the idea of lining their pockets a little extra, could result in even better service...

How nice to hear no stories about multiple blown coil packs and midnight tows! Poor A4s...

Mike T.

Our car's no-start was caused by........a blown coil pack or two. They were changed a little while back. You may not escape the wonders of Robert Bosch GmbH, spiritual successor to Lucas, a.k.a The Prince of Darkness.

You're a nice guy to want to pay your dealer extra money to get better service - a little baksheesh can go a long way, sahib

Seriously, ask for a discount on the extended warranty. As I just wrote above, we paid about $1050 US for a three year extension (7 year total) to 160,000 km (100 K miles).