mtnman82

Had a transaction with a member on the board a little over a year ago now which went awry. I’m truly interested in how other members would have handled this – both from the buyers and seller’s prospective. So here goes…

I bought some front 4-piston calipers from Coin in 9/08. These were advertised as being from an ’04.5 c230k and he was selling for someone he personally knew - supposedly these were taken directly from a friend’s ’04.5. When they arrived, I opened up the box to look at them, and make sure they arrived in one piece. Then I put them on the shelf until the stock front brakes were ready to be replaced.

So last month (9/09 – one year later) the front brake pads were finally ready to be replaced. Admittedly it took longer than I expected to wear out the stock pads. I ordered all the necessary parts (pads, rotors … and the pins & clips which didn’t find their way with the calipers) and put everything on. I went around the block once (~1/4 mile) and parked in the driveway to look everything over. All felt OK, but upon closer examination - looking where the protective coating came off the rotors - I found the wear patterns were different.

Notice how the wear pattern sits further out (from center) on the left rotor when compared to the one on the right. This is especially noticeable if you look at the inner holes (protective coating still touching inner 'drilled' holes on the left rotor, but completely clear on the right rotor):



I took the wheels off again and found the pads in the one caliper hanging ~3/8” off the rotor(!). So I took the calipers off and looked more closely. I found the arms on one of the calipers were longer than the arms on the other caliper!!! At that point I was wondering if these really came from an ’04.5 c230, and then I find they aren’t even a matched set!!!







As you can imagine, I was pretty darn bummed. In the interest of seeking an amiable resolution, I sent Coin a PM to ask if he was willing to make good on them. I explained the situation and showed him the pic’s I’ve posted here (you can also see the recent thread on brakes I posted). At first he tried to say I installed them incorrectly or that something happened to them while they were sitting on the shelf. Then he tried to say he couldn’t be held responsible if they were damaged in the time while I had them. I explained that they weren’t damaged in any way shape or form, and if they were damaged I wouldn’t be bothering him after this amount of time. I explained again that the calipers worked just fine, but they were the wrong parts (not even a matched set). We went back and forth for a while with the #’s stamped on the casings – i.e. me trying to prove I had the wrong parts, but that proved fruitless… To me it should have been obvious from the pic’s above. I *think* I finally proved to him the parts were incorrect, at which point he simply said since it had been a year so he wasn’t responsible anymore(!). I also mentioned that even if I did have the calipers on for a year before I noticed what was going on, I still would have gotten a hold of him because this is a total safety issue (I drive my kids to school every morning in this car).

I fully admit a year had gone by since the transaction. However, I contend these parts were falsely advertised in the first place – they obviously didn’t come from a ‘04.5 c230. I contacted Coin via PM to try to reach an amiable resolution (did post a thread looking for more information - but did NOT bash and did NOT mention names at that time). I should also admit the PM’s got a bit testy at one point, but ONLY in response to his foolishness - I was very cordial to start. I think I’ve done everything I could have to give Coin the benefit of the doubt and make good, to no avail - even waited a couple weeks since our last PM’s before posting this just to see. I know if the shoes were reversed I would honestly have no problem making good on the deal (then again if I were the seller I wouldn’t have advertised them as ‘04.5 calipers unless I KNEW for fact they were). Anybody who's ever done business with me would back me up on this, as I am an honest person and a man of my word.

So if you were the buyer (me), what would you have done at this point? Would you have contacted Coin, or just sucked it up as a year had gone by?

And if you were the seller (Coin), what would you have done at this point? Would you be making good on the deal, or tell the buyer (me) tough luck since it’s been a year?

Truly wondering how others on the boards would have handled this……

laneshift

If I were you, I would have tried to negotiate, and most likely just quit and sell the odd one out. I'm not trying to be a jerk on my side of the internet, but when I receive something in the mail, I try to always check that they got it right. You will always have the lower hand on this because it's been a year and people can make quite the excuse that "maybe you switched them out yourself" etc. Not saying you did, just an example.

If I was the seller, I wouldn't do much about it unless it really was just a mistake, i.e. if I also have a 330 and a 345 laying around, and not a low gesture, because a) I would want to make it right and I didn’t know it was a mistake, and b) it would affect me too, because I can’t use two different parts, either. This doesn’t seem to be the case if the seller keeps denying it on his part, which hints at me that it’s just a low gesture.

Man, people of this calibre driving some of the higher end cars on the streets still do this kind of stuff?

I’m sorry to hear you have to encounter this experience. I would sell the one that you can’t use and try to get a matching one for the one that you can use. Hopefully no damage to your car yet.

Good luck!

samaritrey

I would have done something reckless and stupid. i remember reading your dilemma weeks ago and was hoping that you had gotten it straightened out. did you ever figure out what the wrong caliper fits on? hopefully it is worth something and you can sell it and buy the proper one and move on to more mods.

i_am_amused

If I was the seller, and honest, I would be wondering whether you are trying to scam me. If I was the seller, and dishonest, I would be wondering even more whether you are trying to scam me.

There's really know way for you to prove these are the same parts that you received a year ago, so all you can do is ask for the seller to make it right. Since you have already done that without success, it's time to move on.

The silver lining: now others will know to verify part numbers, dimensions, molecular weights, of EVERYTHING they purchase on the internet.

I thank you for them in advance

FrankW

solution: get C32/55 rotor for the side with 345 caliper.

splinter

Was thinking about your brake hardware woes this past week.

Successfully sold several takeoff items via MBW.
They were always shipped with the stipulation that if the hardware wasn’t exactly as described and pictured in the FS post, (condition, functionality, etc.) the buyer's PayPal remittance would be promptly refunded upon return. Never had a disgruntled recipient or unsatisfactory transaction. Have also given away AMG anti-roll bars, brake pads, spare wheels and time twisting wrenches amongst local members.
Karma? Don’t know.

Be damn hot if I was suffering your situation. Sucks that he likely knew he was unloading a mismatched pair. It’s not any consolation, but I’ve been screwed out of far more in the past.

FrankW’s solution is a viable workaround, although it may pull toward the strong side.

Emin

To be honest, if it was a year later and I was the seller, I wouldnt do much either.

W203E35

Looks like one is a 230 caliper and the other is a 350/32/55 caliper.

If the rotors are not messed up then you can get the 230 caliper and stick with the same rotors if not then you have to match the other one with 350/32/55 caliper and get different rotors.

mtnman82

No offense taken, laneshift – I’m looking for opinion’s on both side’s of the coin, so to speak. I’m not sure if he knew what he was selling were mis-matched or not, but they definitely weren’t what he advertised them to be (from a friend’s ’04.5 c230k). There has to be at least some doubt in his mind because of this. One of the reasons I posted this was so that people are aware this sort of people are on even this board.

The thought crossed my mind (I’m originally from the Midwest and have plenty of friends/relatives in the Chicago/Milwaukee/Twin Cities area), but I generally like to give people the benefit of the doubt and a chance to make things right. I wonder what Oprah would do in a situation like this?

Don’t quite get the logic on the honest/dishonest seller there, but I am looking for both sides. If he was being dishonest a year ago, he still knows it now. If he were truly the honest type, well, I don't think I'd be typing this... Besides, it’s not like I’m collecting a bunch of calipers or in the business or something like that. The thought about proving they are the same parts did cross my mind, but I think most people would think it would be pretty far-fetched for me to be making something like this up (especially a year later). And yep, not only should people be checking parts/dimensions/etc, but now there is more information on brakes for everybody here and maybe future buyers/sellers can learn something from all of this.

The seller might have gone for something like that (or used them as-is), but I like to do things right.

You are a man of character, Splinter, as I like to think I am. Been taken a few times myself now (yep, it sucks), but never had an unsatisfactory transaction from this end either.

Thanks for chiming in, Emin (seriously!). Would you not do anything even if you were not entirely truthful in your ad (i.e. weren’t really sure where the parts came from); or if you knew they were mis-matched in the first place?

Thanks, Karo, rotors are just fine. I just went around the block once with them then checked things out (thank goodness!).

I thought about just getting one caliper form somewhere, but if you think about this situation, I wasn’t really sure what either one of these came from. The one side looked the same as the ’04.5, but I can’t be sure (and doubt I will ever get the true story from Coin). Since I all ready have everything for the 04.5 calipers (rotors, pads, pins, & clips - all new), that seemed like the most cost effective solution. And, that’s exactly what I’ve done (from a seller who gave me pics of the car they came from, the VIN #, etc.)…

MW_ATL

I think one thing you may be forgetting, if he honestly took them from a friend to sell, then gave the friend the money -- well, we all have had "friends" like that. The friend may not have been honest with him. In that case he really is not in a good position to make it right, especially a year later.

From a sellers perspective, after a year, I probably wouldn't be very inclined to do much. I would hope as a seller to always make sure that I told you any information such as part numbers and made sure that I shipped exactly what I was promising you, but some sellers aren't like that. After a year, it would be hard not to be suspicious. If you had gotten them, un-boxed them and noticed they were different, sure. Think of it this way...if you went to Wal-Mart or AutoZone and purchased a radio, then let it sit for a year, opened the box, plugged it in and found out it didn't work, you would have a hard time convincing either of them to let you return it. If you had taken it home and found it didn't work immediately, no problem. I think the year is the biggest problem.

From a buyers perspective, well, I've been burned before. Hindsight is always better, but ideally you would have inspected them and checked the part numbers with what you expected to get when you got them. After a year, I would have just eaten the loss quietly. Prefect example in place: I got the Comand unit I just installed in my car about a year ago. I plugged it up when I first got it and ran the diagnostic CD on it and everything looked good on the bench. However, had it been "bad" when I got ready to install it in the car, I don't feel I would have had any recourse. Thankfully, with a few minor glitches, all went well, but I could have easily been looking a an expensive rifle target.

Is it possible that he intentionally unloaded a mismatched pair? Sure - I don't know the seller, so I have no idea. But it is also possible that he is honest and believes you received what he thinks he shipped. I think the biggest problem you two have is the passage of the year.

Just my thoughts.

mtnman82

Agree, the passage of a year is a stickler here. But ... Wal-mart wouldn't sell something falsely advertised either. I actually have a cousin who's a lawer for Wal-mart and happenned to be visiting CA while this was going down. She said legal-wise a year is the general cutoff and if I were to take him to court it would be up to the judge on taking it or not as it is right at a year (we're talking within days).

Yep - did think of his 'friend' being part of the problem and asked him to ask his 'friend' about it but he apparently didn't or wouldn't, which leads me to believe he knows what he did.

And thanks for your opinion!

W203E35

The most cost effective way of dealing with this issue is to get a c230 (sport) caliper and sell the one which is for a 350/32/55 and hopefully you won't loose too much money.

Just out of curiosity how much did you pay for the whole thing? How much does a single c230 (sport) caliper new or used go for?

The caliper is around 277.50....I hope you can find a better deal than that (the price is for new through dealer)

mtnman82

Forgot to add that when I first PM'ed about buying these calipers, Coin told me they were no longer available. ~6 months later he PM'd me saying he bought them for himself, had them on his car, and was now selling... They were essentially 'his' at that point, so either he did not notice the difference in rotor wear (hard to believe) or he was trying to get back what he was taken for.

Karo - yep, the cheapest way to go would have been to find a matching caliper for the one side. But ... I wasn't sure what either of them were at the time. The one 'looked' like it was the same thing as an '04.5 caliper, but I wanted to be sure so bought a new set. I paid Coin $300 (+$40 for shipping) for the two calipers (can't call them a 'set' anymore). I just got a set of TRUE 04.5 calipers for ~$200 shipped.

Which brings up another point on negotiating in a situation like this... Had I been the seller in this case, another route I might have taken to try to 'make things right' would have been asking about sending replacements in exhange. If Coin had suggested paying the cost for replacements, or sending replacements (and I send back the ones he sold me in either case) it would have been a no-brainer and left me with the feeling that he really was a person of character and didn't know about the mis-match. Excuses and denials have had just the opposite effect.

Hopefully this thread will help peeps in the future.

W203E35

I'm glad you got the right calipers and before anything wrong happened. Also thanks for posting up your bad experience with a seller. I'm sure it will help other members in the future. Just because the caliper looks the same doesn't mean it is. From you experience I think the seller scrapped the calipers (meaning he probably bought them seperatly) thinking it was cheaper but then noticed they were different and sold them as a "set".

But don't let the calipers go to waste. The 330 and 345 is probably the size. So keep an eye out for someone who is selling a c230 caliper and c350/32/55 caliper and make sure the number matches. And then atleast you will be able to sell it as a set (2 sets 230 and 350/32/55) and hopefully get your money back.

Good Luck

nickgailloux

Whenever I buy/sell anything used, I try to remember to make some type of warranty agreement with the other party. As a buyer, before I seal the deal, I usually ask for a 10-day warranty.

If I was the seller in your situation, it would be tough to offer a refund considering the money you paid a year ago would be long gone. The chance of someone actually buying something and then attempting to scam the seller via a refund a year later is slim to none, but you never know.

I think its the buyer's due diligence to thouroughly inspect the parts when you get them and make sure they are correct. Its not really fair to spring this up a year later.

That being said, the whole situation really sucks, I hope you manage to sort it out and I hope it doesn't end up costing you too much more.

mtnman82

Just wanted to re-visit this to let the forum know how things turned out. I was waiting to see if there would be resolution, but unfortunately not.

My car is fine, with the proper '04.5 4-piston brakes on - purchased ~month ago from a reputable seller who could confirm where the brakes actually came from. Not a chance I was going to put mis-matched parts on my car!!!

As far as the mis-matched set I bought from Coin ... well, he continues to deny there is a problem with the set (in his words "... if they bolt up, they are the correct parts" ... yeah right ). I don't think there's any denying this is NOT a matched set (but he did send me a pretty funny picture with a drooping straight edge trying to convince me otherwise - kept a copy for laughs). The brakes were obviously NOT from a friend's stock '04.5 C230, as he told me (if they in fact were, there wouldn't have been an issue). Coin refuses to take any responsibility for the situation, and of course not even an attempt to make things right. I will be posting those calipers up for sale individually, if anybody is interested (I'm not holding my breath).

Again, this should be a lesson for buyers and sellers. Sellers would be best to provide FULL DISCLOSURE to avoid any hassles (i.e. if the parts really came from a junk yard, or bought from a 3rd party, etc. let the seller know so they can verify). Buyers need to be sure they can trust what the seller is telling them (some guys talk the talk, but in reality are technically challenged). My big problem here was believing these really came from an '04.5 and hence just a quick visual check after I received them. If coin had provided full disclosure I surely would have asked for more information before I bought them and checked more carefully when they came.

You peeps be careful out there ...

bdgdl08

that's BULLSH*T

Post the pictures!!!

mtnman82

Do forum rules allow me to post pics I recieved in a PM?

mtnman82

Well, here you go. Coin sold the mis-matched calipers to me, but never offered the rotors that go with them. He sold those separately, before he offered up the rotors. Anyone trying to sell brake stuff ususally offers the rotors and calipers together if they have both, no (just looking at the other brake sales ads)? After a little searching (which anyone on the forum can do), I found out who he sold the rotors to and also found pics of the rotors the buyer had posted. Look at these pics and compare them to the pics at the top of this thread:




The buyer took these pics right after installing the rotors Coin sold him. these were the rotors Coin used with the brakes he sold me. You can clearly see the uneven wear between the two rotors. I'm sure Coin saw this and knew there was a problem. I'm also sure that's why he decided to split the rotors and calipers. You'll also notice that in Coin's sale thread he's taken down the pics of the rotors. He takes down the pics he's afraid of and know will come back to haunt him.....

If I had seen the wear pattern on the caliper, I would most certainly have known something was awry. I also think this shows Coin's character - he was willing to let someone unknowingly drive around on these things. I know he's sold stuff before/after this with satisfactory results, but I'd be real careful buying from him if I were you guys. I'm sure all is good when he's trying to sell, but if there's any problem I promise you his true colors will come out. PM me if you'd like to see the hilarious pic he sent me trying to justify one caliper's arms being longer than the other - I think then you will see what this a$$hat is all about. I'd love to post it here, but don't think I'm allowed to under forum rules (someone please let me know if this is not the case). Guess I'll be leaving some feedback now too.

You guys be careful out there!

laneshift

Man.. that's pretty low.