motioneffects

Oh really? Obviously you have never used a SDS before and have never worked on a car, based on what you have just said. People like you making false statement on forums are leading others to believe the same. FYI, the SDS machine is a tool and will HELP you in diagnosing a problem, NOT diagnosis the problem for you, get it right.

No wonder there are less and less Techs giving advise to the people who needs help. They are just wasting their time, since most people don't want to hear what they need to hear, but hear what they want to hear.

I can see where this tread is going---let the flames begin...

amdeutsch

Lets not forget that in most cases members on here had to show the tech how to access something within that SW since they, the tech, said it couldn't be done or was not familiar with how to find things within the SW selection; and the tech received the factory training.

motioneffects

In most cases? In majority of dealerships, customers are not allowed in the shop. I have yet had a member on any MB forum showed me anything. And I find it really hard to believe that since the majority of members on any MB Forum has never had access to the SDS or seen what the DAS or XENTRY looks like. People do lie here. People do brag if they are close about something.

acr2001

Are you kidding me? Your posts are unbelievable. The price dealers charge to change one setting is a complete joke. I can buy a hacked SDS with laptop on ebay for $700, change anything I want, and then resell it. And a lot of people on these forums own an SDS unit. They just don't make it public here. Many of them likely know more than you do - have you ever worked in developer mode? I somehow doubt it.
If I lose $100 on the deal it still cost waay less than TRYING TO EXPLAIN to some clueless tech how to make the changes I want. And I HAVE attempted to get these changes made at my dealer numerous times. They have NO IDEA how to do it - and this is one of the biggest dealerships in the NYC area.

I had to get my MOST bus version coded because I added a MHI module and the fiber on my head unit was off from the factory. They charged $130 AND I PROVIDED THEM WITH THE VERSION CODING INSTRUCTIONS FROM WIS!! $130 to pop a cable in under the dash (DIDN'T EVEN HAVE TO POP THE HOOD) click a mouse a few times, press F4, and hand me the keys. Go spout your garbage elsewhere. It would cost me more than the SDS unit is worth to make 5 changes.

Have you read all of the posts on these forums about the dealers being clueless and throwing countless parts at problems? The posts about the insane charges? The blatant lies about parts? It's VERY rare I hear anything GOOD about you people, yet you have the nerve to preach to us as if you have a clue. Every time my vehicle goes in for warranty repairs it goes BACK the next day to fix all of the parts that they broke during the repair. EVERY TIME. And this is with a different tech working on my car each time, and tipping the service advisor!

/rant

amdeutsch

Well, I'm glad you enjoy that kind of interaction with your customers. I know of several cases where the techs were glad that someone showed them something. It all depends on that little known phrase in your dealership and, apparently your vocabulary; customer service.

motioneffects

FYI I do interact with customers, but I have yet had one show me anything in the 5 years i've been at the dealership.

My vocabulary? Why are we off subject? I don't usually respond in this way but the the rage inside of me, due to a ignorant member, brings it out of me. I guess you have never got mad when someone makes a false statement.

mleskovar

My background is computers so I'm fully aware of what it does, and doesn't do. I'm guessing that I've worked on cars since before you were born.

Oh, you mean like when they charge you for SDS "diagnostics" for an intermittent CPS failure? Fact is, SDS often just gets the mechanic close to the problem and then they guess like everyone else. Most/all dealers won't even touch a first time warranty problem without an error code.

No flames. I respect mechanics and technicians. That doesn't mean I always agree with them though, especially when it come to fix times. I also know dealers are in the business to make money. My gripe is inflated diagnostic and fix times. You cheat the customer when the actual diagnostic or fix time is less than you charge....but you never do that, do you? Join the list of MB technicians/mechanics that I have pissed off because I'm opinionated and speak my mind.

amdeutsch

Thats because, most likely, you never had to interact with members of a car forum that requested settings not found in normal, everyday situations.

I'm guessing that the next comment will be be that he is going by the book, stealership/MB, when putting down time for a diagnosis utilizing SW shop aids.

$0.02. Making/charging for a service - nobody objects. But when it goes over the top = objection.

motioneffects

My posts are unbelievable? Wow ok Mr.MBMaster tech. Before you criticize any techs, maybe you should go be one and see what we go thru. Yes I have used developers mode countless times-There's another member on this board that is ignorant. Do you think we get paid that $100 diag or change a setting? We lucky to see a 1/5 of that. Clueless techs? I dont know what kinda of dealership you're going to. This is the problem with these forums, everyone dont want to hear the truth. Im not going to argue with you and hopefully most techs on here understands what we go thru.

W203E35

+1

Just bought cables with Multiplexer for 600
Bought the SDS/DAS/WIS/EPC software (which can be installed on any laptop) for 100

700=Got the STAR System.

mleskovar

MACBOOKUSER

motioneffects why are you wasting time explaining stuff to people that obviously have no clue, i am kind of curious to these so called changes to the car that a tech doesn't know how to do. if the dealership is so horrible, than dont go. i would hate to have some customer come in and show me up
plus you people need to understand it is a dealership-only mercedes approved fixes and programming, so no pimp my ride stuff here.

amdeutsch

And that is why there is such a response. If you can't admit, but always have to be right, then I feel sorry for you.

Fortunately there are those that will admit they don't know everything. Those are the good guys.

motioneffects

When a dealer charges 2 hours for a quick test for a crank sensor, Its wrong. It not always simple in diagnosing problems. I think most people dont realized that customer bring cars to the dealer mostly for problem they cant figure out. Believe it or not, there are less and less service work(A service, B service, etc.) and more electrical problems jobs that wind up taking hours to figure out. And those electrical problems wind up being CAN issues or a module taking CAN down/keeping it awake, but will have a good Quick test result.
The Dealer im at is pretty good with charging diag time. But of course thats debatable. And since most shops are filled with flat rate techs, we loose time. There are countless times where I have spent a whole day chasing a problem and taking a dash out just to find a chaffed wire and was shorting to ground intermittently. Yes the book time only pays 1/10th to fix the repair, but i had to take the dash out to get to the problem. Whats even worst is in a situation like that, i would not be able to get back(time wise) what i had spent on the job. Its terrible, everyone loses, and i know customer would argue that "If the mechanic knew what he was doing, it would not have taken so long."

motioneffects

There time when we have special request, But we can't always change it. You are right, since forum members are enthusiast about their cars and we dont always think of that quick, we do hunt a little to change some settings around.

MACBOOKUSER

never claimed to know everything, i dont remember writing that either. i DO remember reading most of you people go to your dealership showing a tech how to do his job, so i guess that makes you the bad guys. i gladly admit when wrong but you are bad mouthing people who are only trying to make a living,feed a family, pay mortgages. i am sorry for trying to live my life, so i should go to your jobs and claim how everything you do is wrong and i can find some other compitent guy to do the job cheaper, not saying you shouldnt shop around for a cheaper price but dont bad mouth people trying to make a living just like you. if price is such an issue i think another car choice should have been in order, just saying.

motioneffects

Like my last post, many customers are getting their service done at independent shops and bring problem cars in dealer that other places cant figure out. From what it seems, you work at a dealer too, and I think you can vouch for what Im saying.

MACBOOKUSER

i can vouch for everything you are saying, it easy to discriminate on someone when they are not the ones doing the work, but when a real problem occurs we become their best friend but then get bashed on a forum for it later. i wonder if anyone here has ever been put down by the performance they did at their job and the work they put out......wonder why it bothers us so much

motioneffects

I agree with you completely, but most of the dealership I've worked at or been seem pretty reasonable. I would really prefer to get paid only the time I put into a vehicle. Remember, flat rate guy only gets paid on what he produce. If im at work for 10 hours and the job only pays 5, I only get 5 hours that day. Its terrible but dealership screws the tech too.

motioneffects

The Famous saying "You're only as good as the last job you completed."

MACBOOKUSER

MACBOOKUSER

back to the original problem at hand, i believe that you can replace the yaw rate sensor w/o coding or initialization-not too sure if the esp light will go out on its own though, code will probobly have to get erased

acr2001

Wait so one tech says he needs coding, and the other says he does not? How very interesting

Just to be clear, my comments about the insane prices the dealers charge was not aimed at techs, because obviously they have no say in that. I just hate it when you guys come in here pretending to be god when you can learn a lot yourselves from this forum. I am sure that there is plenty you can contribute also, but I wish you wouldn't be so thick headed about it if someone has another (valid) idea.

About hard to diagnose problems, this I can understand too - when it is an issue like the example you gave involving the CAN-bus staying awake, I understand that it can take a while even for a pro to hunt down the faulty module. There is still no excuse for the dealer charging me over $100 to change a single setting with SDS. There is also no excuse for all the BS the forum members often get from dealers and techs. When I say BS I am not talking about things people don't want to hear, and I do acknowledge that that's a problem too. I am talking about the techs at my dealer telling me that a 2005 US C-class cannot possibly be set to chirp when it is locked / unlocked. Or telling others with an 07 C that the chirp cannot be turned off - just two recent experiences I've had off the top of my head. Funny thing is, had they known how to enable the 'buzzer' they would probably have charged me $140 to do it (again, this isn't likely the techs fault. I blame the dealer for that.)

MACBOOKUSER

I agree about learning some stuff from here, and I for one am not thick headed or think of myself as god. I just said I believe you can replace without that stuff-at the dealer we don't have to worry about it cause we have the sds there, I could be wrong on that but it sure doesn't hurt to replace it and see what happens. The hour shop charge seems to be the same with all dealers and manufacturers, I called a mitsu dealer to run a check engine light for me and they wanted 120 to bring it in the door(1 hour check out time) it is what it is

I signed up to try and help people with problems, all I can do is give an opinion it can be taken or not. I think I'm done with this post cause this subject can be fought over forever

acr2001

Well, I completely agree with this, and I do think a tech like yourself can provide a valuable service to the forum, so I hope you will stick around. Please don't take what I said earlier personally, just because a large number of techs (in my experience) like to BS a bit much does not mean all of them do.