W203 C230K Kleeman Header + Tuning Technology Motorsports
 

First post and hopefully respectable. Here goes a long post....

So, been lurking these forums from time to time. Not new to tuning cars but told myself I wouldn’t do it to the Merc I bought back in '05. The heavy tuning done on my cars in the past took away from drivability and maintenance is always time consuming.

So here I am in 2010 and bored of the 230k SS. I think I know enough about this car to give it a fun factor.

Before everyone rushes in with an opinion of the I4, keep in mind, I want to car more fun to drive and not heavily modded. Ive got a 300HP 06 5.7L Hemi to play with that has an addition 100HP bolted on. Fun to drive but wheres the fun in bolting on 100HP?

So here we go:
1. Kleeman Header: Contacted Corey at Kleeman who was awesome with communication and even went to get special approval for a deal for their Stainless header with High Flow Cat (upgraded from generation 1). Trust me when I say I got a good deal. Contact him yourself. Not going to post prices here. Well, Hopefully no issues with stock O2 sensors. Not sure why you would still need to cut a 4 inch section of the downpipe flange but Im guessing fitment with a clamp makes this 'fit' regional specs for the M271. Lets face it, the performance part sold in limited quantities compared to a stock manifold which goes in every single car made is going to need trade offs. Stainless steal, high flow cat, performance oriented vs. Fitment and Emission oriented. Whats different from 1st gen Kleeman headers is that the additional capped bung before the Cat is gone. So pre o2 in the header, post o2 after cat. Now, ive installed a bosal ceramic header back in '04 on a previous car and it was a blast but I didn’t have the down time and knew I wanted a weld to the downpipe.

1a. Tuning Technology Install: Didn’t want to pay any Indy mechanic to do the install because I was specific on how I wanted the weld and needed someone who understood the intentions here. Keep in mind this was the best decision made for STEP 1 and I will explain why in STEP 2. A friend referred me to a local tuning shop known as Tuning Technology Motorsports. Again, ive been around long enough to see the early 90's shops (locally and more extensive on the West Coast) where a bunch of teenagers and doing pretty extensive mods on import racers (which people here like to call 'Ricers' but lets give them credit where credit is due, they pioneered what is known today). So made an appointment with Bruce and explained this is no AMG 55 or 63, Black Series or Lambo (which 'his company' has done). He assured me not to worry. Made the trip down and of course, a 10 second E55 was parked right in front and an SL55 in the garage. Im thinking, meet Bruce, hes going to get one of his helpers to do the car. Boy was I shocked! Bruce is hands on and only trusts himself. Get this, he researched in EPC about my car (which I knew cause I took a look at EPC too) but he actually took time to prepare for his job. Hes like a man with a teenagers vision if I had to put it in simplest terms. Nothing what I expected. He IS THE MAN. Lets put it this way, he is doing what I thought would be the perfect job back in '04 when I was modding in my own garage. Making things happen. Balls to the wall. I spent a whole hour just chatting with him, and what he can do. Hes no salesman, in fact, im brining a part I bought from his distributor and hes just doing the install. I left shocked, but glad, Bruce himself is going to be doing the work working on my car and hes done some diligence and knows what hes facing beforehand. I have been to enough mechanics as we all probably have. Who tells you to drive the car onto the lift, and takes a look with you under your car and spends the time doing that? Well, he sure did. He took what he saw in EPC and wanted to confirm what he was thinking. The install? Perfect weld, no exhaust leaks, Hangers back on, clearance for any engine movement. Even swapped out some bolts in the midpipe in case we doing any exhaust mod later. Couldn’t be happier.

2. Tuning Technology ECU changes via SDS: Now, ive heard of SDS. It’s the Star diagnostic all Benz service have. Ive researched and reached out to PowerChip group who tell me they will advance timing to match fuel used in two Stages 91RON or 93RON. You can read their brochure which concentrates on this generic Flash. Now, ive always wondered how can someone get a tune by shipping off the ECU? What could they possibly do without the car and understanding mods made? Is it an existing file from someone elses car? All my research and im leery on sending away the ECU for a lightly modified car. After returning later in the day to TT Motorsports, I find Bruce with SDS hooked up to my car, hes too busy to greet me, so I walk in and up to his SDS workstation. Hes like 'dude' I found some interesting stuff but want you to take a look before making any changes. I wanted to crack up but was too intrigued by what he could have possibly found.

A. Timing - MB states to use premium fuel only. I suspected prob set to 89RON conservatively for 'normal' owners. We were surprised to see the c230k set at 91RON. Why are tuning companies advertising Stage 1 91RON? Maybe internationally? But the car was set with timing to match 91RON factory. We bumped that up to 93RON of course.

B. Fuel Stage - Bruce found a fuel stage settings for this car! Stage 1 (10% increase) and Stage 2 (15% increase). Im guessing MB prepared for supercharger issues via ECU stages for fuel. In the event the forced induction car is lean a service technician could probably up the fuel in pre-set stages to address the issue? This was my conclusion b/c I read in a forum someone in the UK had idle problems and a service technician made this mod via SDS as he explained. We bumped that to Stage 1 at this time to just slightly enrich the A/F ratio conservatively. Without a pulley we figured the car is prob not running lean and give this a try.

C. Adaptation Map - We wanted to clear the adaptation on the ECU to 'learn' from the new headers and changes above. All we did here was clear the adaptation the ECU has and knowing the car will feel strange early as it learns driving habits and changes in the exhaust manifold and fuel/timing.

D. Fan trigger - If you don’t already know, the terrible Intercooler design makes this car susceptible to heat soak. Summer driving is a drag. We were surprised to see you can trigger the fan from 15 degrees to 40 degrees early in this car. We bumped that trigger to 15 degrees earlier to help with the heat soak.

E. Remote Keyless Chirp/Sound - Didn’t realize this until I got home but Bruce threw in a surprise by changing the sound on the remote keyless sound. I think the W203 allows for region changes in SDS. I think its more similar to later model Benz we see now. Gotta let Bruce confirm here but I get a kick out of the sound and mention this more than anything above to 'regular' people. Hah! I believe the region setting is Netherlands from what I've read in forums?

----- THE DRIVE
So Bruce tells me to beat the crap out of the car leaving the shop where theres a four lane local highway with lights. The exhaust is noticeable louder (stock exhaust). Raspy on first gear high RPMS but once its warm that goes away. Its subtle but obviously louder from the flow. The car is pulling like a completely new car. I did NOT expect such drastic changes from what was done. Claims are 20HP from Kleeman and ECU tunes claim 18HP from chip companies but lets be realistic. The truth however, numbers aside, is the car is completely different.

----- HERE IS THE KICKER
The boost gauge I got installed would NEVER go above 11psi stock. For two months of driving I mean never! I even opened the air box once to let more air in (knowing its engine air) and I couldn’t get over 11psi. Guess what? Im getting 12! Any idea what a pound of boost does to this little car? Probably 10-15 HP from my calcs. Its no wonder this car feels different. Bruces tricks on SDS or maybe in conjunction of the headers? Is it possible the additional fuel dump and advance timing is tricking the ECU to allow the increase in boost? Will the ECU adapt and bring it back down? Im going to monitor and let the residents here chime in. Got a friend with an A4 2.0T tuned for 15pounds and he claims this car is faster. He says he saw 12.5psi when he opened up 0-100. One thing I know for sure, I wasn’t able to take his car off a line prior to this in case everyone is thinking its 'perceived' difference. These two facts is enough proof without dyno numbers.


Credits:

http://www.ttmotorsports.com/
http://www.kleemann.dk/Contact/DealerResult.aspx?id=e2afaa0f-1503-45bb-b073-d8089c275d36

Residents who I've learned from: Drex/Mig/Puggy/Frank....


Pics below:

1. Kleeman M271 Header pre-install
2. 10 Sec E55 @ TT Motorsports
3. Header post install
4. Hemi project: CAI Intake, Borla Cat Back, JET Stage 2 ECU
5. Hemi Project: Taking a dremel to the back bumper #1
6. Hemi Project: Taking a dremel to the back bumper #2

Where is this shop located!

Your handle being DCNYC I can only hope its near by. I'm def in need of a shop that can do some DAS work for me, and this place sounds unreal.

zerocover,

Its in Farmingdale LI. I work in Manhattan and live in Qns. Nassau was my old stomping ground but this is not far at all. Border of Suffolk.

Hes all over the 63 and 55 AMG boards. Im gonna get him to chime in here.

I did leave a link to TTM's site if interested.

I predict a winning thread. Post up a dyno chart and you are going into epic territory. Welcome to the board amigo.

Ed

Bruce does some killer cars. They are a great shop to work with. Products look nice and I'm glad to hear this really woke the car up.

:y

ooo charlie needs to see this

sounds really sick dude!! congrats! cantw ait to see the dyno charts!!

+1 on this being a winning thread

So the majority of the ecu tune was done via SDS?? Who can do all these settings here in San Diego?:naughty:

Anything for the old M111?

By no means am I calling you out or Bruce but I'm not really feeling it.

I'll give you my side of the story and maybe we can all come to a conclusion.

I fiddled with DAS today and below is my explanation of why I feel this whole thing isn't worth it.

Timing:
The timing that you were mentioning is just set so the engine management doesn't work an extra step. The value that you changed from 91 to 93 is the minimum value. When it was originally set to 91 and you put 93 you would get the same effect because the sensors would just adjust. This is just to save the engine management from doing extra steps. Also now that you set your minimum to 93 you are endangering your engine because of detonation because you are telling your engine "hey the minimum I'm going to ever put is 93 so just start off at 93 octane"

See below it says minimum value and also has a warning about setting the correct because of detonation (better to be safe than sorry). I wouldn't want to risk any engine damage. Again this is Minimum Value and your computer will adjust accordingly.

https://mbworld.org/forums/attachmen...1&d=1275301104


Fuel:
The fuel stages that you were talking about "Stage1" and "Stage2" was done blindly. Sounds like you guys guessed on these because you didn't even strap it onto a dyno. You might be running to rich and risk blowing out o2 sensors (I was gonna say CAT but I think Kleemann eliminates the cats). See picture below

https://mbworld.org/forums/attachmen...1&d=1275301351


Adaptation Map:
The placebo effect of people feeling they have gained insane amount of HP because of better throttle response.

https://mbworld.org/forums/attachmen...1&d=1275301506


Conclusion:
I have a feeling you are getting the extra psi in boost because of this adaptation reset. All these people are praising Bruce but in your post it seems like he didn't know what he was doing because you mentioned how he said look what I found which definitely sounds like he didn't know what he was doing. Also I understand find you put headers and downpipe but you do a whole new fuel "tune" and you don't strap it on to a dyno to see what results you are getting? For the people out there a real tune is done through the ecu. Don't mess with this Mickey Mouse DAS (SDS) "tunes". Also sounds like Bruce wasn't in Developer Mode. You can't really do ANY engine tunes in regular DAS. You need Developer but even with Developer you can't code the ECU.

Hopefully someone can prove me wrong but I feel this all is a waste of time and a placebo effect of the Reset of Adaptation. Even with the little Reset of Transmission Adaptation the car feels like it gained extra horses (John knows he did it).

https://mbworld.org/forums/attachmen...1&d=1275305864
https://mbworld.org/forums/attachmen...1&d=1275305864

:popcorn: I would like to see Bruce's rebuttal, looks like Karo did his research since he has access to DAS :y

I'm not trying to pick fight here or trying to put Bruce down but if members are hitting me up asking me to help them with this we have to sort this out because i'm not going to mess up a members car because something was posted.

The only thing that really happened here is maybe fuel is a little more rich and of course the reset of adaptation AND DEFINITELY NO ECU TUNE.

:paranoid:

I would have to basically agree with Karo on this. Although I have a STAR system, I have never messed with those settings. Maybe I'll play with them a little and report back here. But, bottom line is without doing before and after dyno's, I would be suspect of any improvement, on the fuel settings. I definitely agree 100% with Karo on this, and guessing on these fuel settings w/o dyno may do more harm than good.

Indeed resetting adaptations gives a perceived improvement to performance, but doubt there is any real world improvement. When it comes to transmission adaptations, I personally don't like the affects of resetting them, as the transmission shifts are very harsh for a few days.

Now, the octane setting, I have a little bit of a different take, but may be wrong. If you set it to 93 octane and NEVER run anything less, I suspect you will see an slight improvement in performance, as the timing will be slightly advanced vs. the 91 and 89 settings. As long as the octane is high enough to keep the knock sensor from ever pulling back timing, you should get an improvement. But, if you set it to 93 and run 92 or less octane gas regularly, I believe you are shooting yourself in the foot, and may actually see a decrease in performance, because the knock sensor will be actively pulling back timing. To get max performance, you basically want the timing advanced as much as possible w/o ever tripping the knock sensor. Essentially right on the hairy edge of detonation is where you want to be.

You guys seem to be very up on dyno's. They are generally misleading and way too expensive to win an argument on an internet forum. Dynos are misleading because people only look at peak numbers, if power has dropped off in the bottom end the car could be slower as a whole.

I recomend 1/4 mile runs to gauge performance upgrades, trap speed is a great indicator of hp. And you can do many runs for dirt cheap. If the 1/4 mile time drops, at all, then you have an avg gain, which is what you really want.

If op checks avg fuel consumption he can see if the car is running more efficiently. If it is then its making more power (due to less pumping losses, more timing making the combustion more efficent, and a better A/f curve).

Fair enough. By dyno, I was referring more to a measure of A/F mixture than peak power. The method's you pointed out would work as well.

A dyno will tell you how your car is running from beginning to end. Friend of mine had boltons on his Camaro and on a dyno they were able to tell during mid range his car was running too lean. That was taken care of a dyno. By dyno we don't mean only power but Fuel to Air as well.

John, in no way am I questioning your earlier post with this comment (you know 100 times more than me) I'm just curious. Won't the computer just adjust thus having the same effect as mapping it to 93?

If you want an A/F reading just get a scantool, and data log the output from the 02 sensor. Rumour has it modern mercedes's come with wideband o2 sensors stock (not sure about the m272 but I can hope so) A graph of that vs rpm is easy enough without a dyno.

More importantly wont the car make the A/f to whatever is preprogramed into the ecu, through a feedback loop. I very much doubt that we'll be able to see noticable lean or rich spots, more then likely its giong to be lean or rich by the same amount across all rpms. It would be nice to see what that setting does though.

Interesting..Great info :y So instead of strapping it onto a dyno you would just go for a test drive?

IMO, no it won't adjust, for the simple fact, that the ECM can't detect octane rating directly. But, the data from the knock sensor can tell the ECM that the octane is LOWER than the base timing map, not higher. Essentially the octane setting in STAR is selecting the appropriate timing map per octane number to default too.

Here I'll try to explain it better. So, say we set the octane setting in STAR to 89. You fill up with 89 octane and the car runs fine, and the knock sensor never detects knock, so the ECM continues to run timing at the 89 octane map. Then you fill up with 93 octane fuel on the next fillup. Since the ECM can't detect the increased octane, it continues running at the default 89 octane map. Even though the ECM could switch to the 93 map and run without tripping the knock sensor, it won't because the default map is 89 octane. So, then you decide to fill up with 87 octane on the next fillup. The car will run, but will start to detect knock, so it will temporarily retard timing to prevent more knock. After a VERY short time, the ECM will re-advance the timing to the 89 octane map. If it still continues to detect knock, it will default to an even lower octane map for longer period of time before retrying to run the default 89 octane map.

I am sure you had to have read an article or heard a news story in the last 10 years about how running premium in a car designed for regular was a waste of money and of no benefit whatsoever? That reason is simple, like I pointed out earlier, the ECM CAN'T detect octane directly, and can't detect HIGHER octane indirectly.

So, that is why, IMO the octane setting can SLIGHTLY improve performance if you never run octane LOWER than the setting.

Good point. I am sure that data is available to anyone that has a STAR system. Hint..Hint :p:

Agreed as well, that is why I am confused about what that setting will accomplish if anything. Guess, I need to hook up STAR, play with the settings, and see the output from the O2 sensor :D

Again i'm not questioning you John just a question.

Realistically speaking how much performance gains will be seen between 91 and 93?

Will there be any HP gain or it's more of a better response gain?

You should get both a HP gain and better throttle response, albeit minor. Usually a couple of HP. I have no idea how much more advance they add from 91 to 93, but it should be easy to find out via STAR. It is very engine dependent, some gain more than others. Typically the higher the compression the better the gain from timing advances. Being the 2.5L M272 has particularly high compression (11.2:1), it may respond well.

:rolf:


I'm curious on this now too

Interesting, you guys have higher compression than us 3.5 guys. We have 10.7:1. I'm still wondering what caused the 1 extra psi in boost.

This "tuning" really has no HP gains. I do agree the OP would feel HP from the Kleemann header but not the "tune". I was reading an article and it explained how people think higher octane rating means more hp but this is not the case. That higher octane causes less knock and when an engine get's knock the knock sensors adjust the timing causing a minimal loss in HP.

I believe with a real ECU tune a tuner has more control of a car. If anyone can tune a car with Mercedes Star (SDS) it's John :y. If he can't do it no one can.

The major problem with your assumptions Karo is that you were hooked up to your C350, correct?

Let me address few things so you can all understand what I did through SDS. I've built some of the fastest MB's, as well as many other manufacturers, in the US and usually don't fiddle around with 200hp cars (no disrespect but true). Donny was very cool and humble when we were corresponding about me doing his Kleemann headers/cat install and if you have talked to any member on MBWorld that I have helped they will tell you that I HELP EVERYBODY if asked. Now some clarifications on Karo's assumptions.

While there are some of the sub-screens that are shared throughout all MB chassis/ECU's they do not share all of the subsections.These subsections relate to the W203 C230K and there are actually 9 STAGES of fueling changes that can be made. Stage 1 was 10% fuel increase and Stage 2 was 15% so I wasn't guessing like you assumed. Since you have SDS and seem to think you are an expert, please go into DAS Simulation and use the 230k model and take a look for yourself. You will see all 9 stages of fuel manipulations.

Your condescending point of your post that alluded to me "guessing" and as you said "didn't know what he was doing" since we didn't "strap it to a dyno" is quite comical. The parameters that I can manipulate and change through SDS are vast, proven and, by the way, I DO HAVE DEVELOPER MODE!

You cannot duplicate real airflow on a dyno unless you are in a wind tunnel and I believe there are only 2 dynos in the US with a wind tunnel. Datalogging on the street will give you much more accurate information then being strapped on a dyno. Not opinion.........FACT.

The ignition/timing tables that we set to min 93 are more aggressive than the 91 since in our side of the country 93 is the octane of super unleaded unlike parts of the country that have 91 max. And yes you do make more power with the elevated timing tables.

It has NOTHING to do with having the engine management work an extra step. WTF does that even mean?

I quote:
Karo's Conclusion:
I have a feeling you are getting the extra psi in boost because of this adaptation reset. All these people are praising Bruce but in your post it seems like he didn't know what he was doing because you mentioned how he said look what I found which definitely sounds like he didn't know what he was doing. Also I understand find you put headers and downpipe but you do a whole new fuel "tune" and you don't strap it on to a dyno to see what results you are getting? For the people out there a real tune is done through the ecu. Don't mess with this Mickey Mouse DAS (SDS) "tunes". Also sounds like Bruce wasn't in Developer Mode. You can't really do ANY engine tunes in regular DAS. You need Developer but even with Developer you can't code the ECU

We didn't tune the car like you keep saying but I was able to change some variables to see if that would make a performance difference and according to the owner....IT DID! While a pre and post dyno would have been ideal it wasn't done.

You have shown your lack of true understanding what can be accomplished with a SDS through the OBD2 port. I can also raise/remove your top speed limiter through SDS, lower ANY Airmatic car through SDS, change your alarm/arming tones, make your radiator fan come on sooner to keep your car cooler, activate both rear foglights instead of just one, activate panic braking to your rear tails, etc. All of this has been done by a person that doesn't know what he is doing! :rolf:

PS Coding the ECU is what you do with SDS but you cannot flash a new software file with SDS. All of the changes that I make are then coded to the ECU through SDS.

If there are any members that would like me to explain in depth what was done I will gladly speak to you on the phone and answer any questions that you have. I don't appreciate getting condescending posts from someone that isn't even looking at the correct model and just seems to want to be a hater just like so many on MBWorld.

Karo-
You probably should have done some more research into who you were calling out and my experience and attention to helping all MBWorld members by trying to make there cars as great as possible. The extra boost is probably associated with less restriction/back pressure on the exhaust side letting the blower spin just a little faster and this was corroborated by a boost gauge that the OP had installed on his car already. Another lb of boost + headers= MORE POWER!

Thanks Anthony. Welcome back bro!:y

i think Karo made it very VERY clear he was not calling anybody out or trying to put you down :y we all now Karo, he doesnt like to cause problems.. well, unless your Patrick :rolf:

but dude, thanks for explaining, you seem to do some SICK ASS stuff! i mean, ive been digging and :bow:

I had a few questions, PM'd you!!

Karo wrote:
"All these people are praising Bruce but in your post it seems like he didn't know what he was doing because you mentioned how he said look what I found which definitely sounds like he didn't know what he was doing."

Sounds like a call out to me. :nix:

Saying I don't know what I was doing and constantly referencing me? :crazy:

Let's get couple of facts straight before we move on.

Look at the post I made it was late at night and I might have been a little off so I apologize if I said something that offended you, I should have reworded my thoughts correctly.

In no way do I think I am an expert with DAS. Trust me and all the members know this too. I'm not a cocky mofo and I don't think I know about cars. I always like to help out people too and this to me sounded like it was no tune and I was a little aggressive when members PMed me to get this done on their car. You can ask anyone on this forum that I always go out of my way to help members out.

----------------------------

Below are real questions and not calling Bruce out.

The 9 stages that you were talking about only 2 stages pertain to what you were trying to accomplish correct? Stage 1 with enriches the fuel mixture by 10% and Stage 2 with 15%. When I said blindly I meant how much did know to enrich with the Kleemann header? Do you believe the car is running lean with the Kleemann header?

Also the RON that you set from 91 "minimum" to 93 "minimum" what would that do?

I do understand you built 10 second benzes and I do understand you know what your talking about when it comes to tunes but when you're doing tunes on engines you don't do before and after pulls?

Also when I said blindly I didn't mean you didn't know what you were doing but you didn't get numbers on the car to see how it's running. I might be right or wrong on this..maybe you can explain to us what your thoughts are.

Again sorry if I offended you but the bottom line is you can't really tune a fuel to air with DAS and I know a lot of members can agree with me.

The first 2 stages are for straight fuel enrichment throughout the entire RPM range. The remaining 7 stages are used to mitigate driveability/idling issues related to certain areas in the RPM range and with respect to operating temperatures. The ECU can correct for a rich running cars through the monitoring of the O2 sensors but the increase in fuel was more for the possibility of more boost being made with the less restricted exhaust side of the engine.

The Min 93 octane is a more aggressive timing table(YOU MUST USE 93 OCTANE to get the maximum effect for this setting) that is already in the ECU which means that there would be less chance of detonation which would cause the ECU to pull timing to correct the detonation. When timing is pulled you lose power especially on FI cars. Even if you did run a lower octane by mistake, the knock sensors would pull timing to mitigate the detonation and you would lose some power but you would hurt the engine.

No tune was ever done on the OP's car. There were a couple items that we tried to see if it would work and according to the OP it did. People are too caught up into the use of dynos and since this isn't a true ECU tune there is no need to dyno. There are sooo many safety devices within the ECU and engine that just manipulating a couple of variable will not give you cause for concern. We are talking about relatively low Hp/tq cars and these changes are tried and true with cars making more than double that power figure.

It is all about driveability. I asked the OP to take the car out and "stomp the ***** out of it" and tell me how it feels. If there were any issues I would have reversed some of the things that I changed but I have done these same things to countless MB's and it always works. We'll just chalk this one up to experience.

I've written this a few times already, I never said I did a tune but I did manipulate some variables that are now coded to the ECU. WTF does tune a fuel to air mean? If you are talking about A/F ratios then you are correct but you are the only one that seems to keep harping on that.

:popcorn:

Bruce covered some of this, but I just wanted to respond. I agree that the extra boost that the OP got was from the Kleenman upgrades allowing the engine to breathe easier, thus allowing the SC to spin a little bit faster.

Karo, you are getting too hung up on calling this a "tune". All it is is some ECM manipulations. Like I have tried to explain a few times, I believe the OP got some gains from the Kleenman upgrade AND the changing of the octane map to 93. (Again, assuming the OP is running at least 93 octane all the time) Higher octane does mean MORE HP, if the timing is aggressive enough to take advantage. But, if it is not, then yes, you gain NOTHING, other than a lighter wallet. Again, for max performance you want the car to run on the hairy edge of knocking, w/o tripping the knock sensor. The higher the octane the more advanced the timing can be. The more advanced the timing can be, the more power you will produce.

Thanks for the vote of confidence on the tuning, but REAL ECM tuning is extremely time consuming work, and frankly is above my pay grade. I have done some myself on my Nissan, but just never had the patience it takes to do it right. But, I do believe there are some "tweaks" to ECM parameters in STAR that can SLIGHTLY improve performance.

Bruce, I am with you 100% on the increase of the octane map, as you can see from my posts, trying to explain how that works. But, I am confused on the fuel enrichment setting. Say you do stage1 10% enrich, won't the ECM just reduce the injector pulse width ~10% because the O2 sensor would see the fuel mixture as rich? Now that question is assuming non forced-induction cars. On the OP car, I can see if the SC produced more boost, that 10% could help it from leaning out on full boost.

John, why did Mercedes put the m272 to 89? Why didn't they put this to 91 from factory? It seems the knock sensors will adjust so why set it lower? Is this so if 91 is filled up at non name brand stations that might be really lower grade so it doesn't affect the car?

I have a question, from a purely academic standpoint. Not calling anyone out just curious.

Why did the pressure in the intake manifold go up (I'd imagine that’s where the boost gauge takes it readings from)?

The way I understand it.
The installation of headers reduces the exhaust backpressure and ideally increases scavenging which would further reduce pressure at the exhaust manifold. When the exhaust valve opens now more exhaust flows out due to less restriction, so when the intake manifold opens there is more air getting drawn into the cylinder. More air in the cylinder should mean less air in the intake manifold, yes?
The supercharger being just a pump would be a more efficient pump because of the differential between ambient pressure and manifold pressure would be less, so it wouldn’t have to work as hard. But that would only allow it to pump more CFM of air per revolution.
So in this example the manifold pressure would be ever so slightly lower but more air would flow through the engine, because of the increased pumping efficiency (two very good things)

I just can’t fathom how less pressure on one part of the engine would increase it at another. If this was a turbo charger then it would make perfect sense but the supercharger is crank driven.

Could it be that enrichening the fuel made the car put even more pressure on the system, which is making the supercharger work harder? Ie the effect of running richer made more of a difference then the header (above example in reverse)?

I want to set mine to 91 and see what I get.

Karo,

I haven't had a chance to play with the settings yet, but is the M272 set at 89 by default? The OP said his was set at 91 by default. If MB did set it to 89 by default, I suspect it is for 2 reasons. 1)A lot of US gas is CRAP. 2)A lot of Americans are cheap, and run regular gas in their premium recommended cars. I think MB is assuming worse case scenario.

I think you are missing the most important point on the knock sensors. If the knock sensors detect knock, they retard timing quite a bit. If they continue to detect knock once they have already retarded timing, they retard it A LOT. If you are in a constant state of tripping the knock sensors, you will most definitely decrease performance. But, the most important part of that to remember, is every time the knock sensor is tripped, it IS BECAUSE THE ENGINE IS KNOCKING. Yes, the ECM acts very fast when detecting knock, and retards timing very quickly, but it still IS KNOCKING. That is why you do not want to set it higher than the normal conditions you will encounter. That is why MB sets it lower to cover their ass.

On mine it was but I'm guessing this is because in California our highest is 91. Great information John, I learned a lot of information from you.

Another quick question.

When you say the engine knocks can't you just open your door and let him in to stop the knocking??

This whole heat was my fault. The OP mentioned about PowerChip and their gains and referred to what was done here and I thought that's what was trying to be done here (a tune). I guess I got thrown off when members PMed me to do this because of increase in huge power. I don't know Bruce but the OP's comment sounded like he wasn't too sure what he found (i'm sure that's not the case) and that threw me off.

I'll end it with an apology but the insane response and power being felt is the Headers and Adaptation Reset which was my main point (i might be wrong).

A lot of Sponsors get called out regardless of their reputation but it's the way they handle something that matters

i was just talking to my friend who is a tech, and he said every mercedes i actually set to 87 or 89 (cant remember) from the factory, and you can actually get bettter throttle response but setting it up to 93, and running 91

Are you sure about raising it to 93 and running 91? I usually have a hard time putting my thoughts to writing and usually comes out the wrong way but here it goes.

You have knock sensors in your engine which sense a knock and retard the timing.

A knock HAS to happen in order for the knock sensor to work (retard timing).

When an engine knocks the engine temperature raises drastically. Now this doesn't seem bad but with the alloy blocks this can be gruesome.

Now setting your car to use 93 but you use 91 this means your engine is going to knock. I believe mercedes sets the octane (atleast on mine) to 89 to protect the longevity of engines. This way of 91 is used and is cheap it can not harm the engine. Also if 89 is used it will still not harm the engine.

I will admit you will see some slight improvements on changing the RON settings but for what price? Again this whole thing started because I thought this whole thread was an alternative to Powerchip. I guess if you want a mod you are compromising safety and longevity.

Someone please correct me when you guys mentioned how running rich was fine because the 02 sensors will adjust won't running too rich mess up your 02 sensors?

Again this has nothing to do with Bruce but getting this all sorted out. A member wants to try this out and I'm just looking out for him.

Zero has a good question (very knowledgeable guy). Anyone got his answer?

I just now sent Bruce a PM apologizing for being a huge douche. I jumped the gun to quick because the idiot that I am I thought the OP was saying they did a ECU tune and that they got 20hp for Headers and 18hp from this tune.

I did this test personally on my car.

I set it to 91 and NOT 93 my results are as follows:

I didn't notice any changes off the line (acceleration).

I did feel better response (smoother) in mid RPM range but couldn't tell if it was quicker.

I then reset the adaptations and everything felt like crap because now the car has to learn driving habits. I hit the freeway and did a couple of insane runs but then I caught up to traffic and turned back. As I was getting home I noticed that the car was starting to behave a little better.

The only thing I really notice was the RPM was rising more freely, felt less restrictive but didn't feel quick enough for me to notice a difference.

I may have to drive it around for a little while.

My honest conclusion is there is a difference but I don't know if it's anything noticeable on a stock w203. Maybe with a Kleemann header it might be different but my honest opinion this isn't worth it for us Cali guys because of the ****ty gas we get. Also the older engines will be more prone to knock. Members have noticed one type of gas brand works better for their cars than another. I would do research on what brand works best and only put that brand if you are going to go with this step.

I can not comment on running rich or doing the fuel map for Kompressor models but on the NA again I did feel a smoother RPM range.

Karo has PMed me. I'm not about to enter this argument - we have been down this road too often.

- Myself & timdf ex Cosworth have posted ad nauseum previously on the pitfalls of dyno testing without a multi million dollar facility that can control everything such as IAT & density up to & including altitude compensation such as Sastech in Johannesburg. Even then repeatability is suspect. We both recommend standing quarter miles as the easiest test for the man in the street in similar atmospheric conditions & correction for any changes. Should you wish to query this please search the 203 & 204 forums for our numerous articles in this regard & the resultant fallout. Please precede any back to back testing by a throttle reset to ensure you achieve WOT - something most forget. You are in a hole in this regard because you took no prior performance or atmospheric measurements so go & find another similar car in a good state of tune to run against. Remember to record wind direction & speed. You also need a vehicle with the same size tyres (especially width). These mess severely with cd. Tyres machined close to slick on the road or a rolling road dyno would be ideal.

- The Kleeman headers & Cat improve an engines overall breathing. An engine is an air pump. More air means better volumetric efficiency and that you can ad more fuel within reason and maintenance of ideal AF ratio for that specific engine. More fuel, as long as of the same density and completely combusted, means more output in heat & horsepower. The horsepower is dependent on engine efficiency. This Kleeman mod frequently triggers a CEL suggesting that Cat performance is sub par. This previously reported numerous times. Kleeman have no fix.

- Within reason for a specific engine design - advancing ignition timing without pre ignition, detonation, pinging or knock - by whatever name you prefer will increase output – both heat & horsepower

- The octane rating of a fuel is in simple terms it's ability to counteract knock. I have discussed octane rating in detail previously (please search). All substances that suppress knock are not benign & some effect flame front propagation negatively. Thus effecting potential output adversely. Only use premium fuel from a reputable major.

- The question of base fuel octane setting in the engine maps with STAR. - The STAR uses RON settings (Research Octane Number). American pumps unlike most of the world reflect AKI (Anti Knock Index - (R+M)/2)). Mercedes engine maps are extremely conservative as reported on the 204 forum by an individual from Benz (dw8083) that actually did the mapping for them, who came to my rescue in a huge fight there. With standard Benz maps you can run them on pretty crap fuel without damage due to excellent knock sensing, which is why the Diesotto works, and conservative mapping. The ECU will simply retard the timing at the expense of engine output. The danger comes when the ECU map will not permit sufficient retardation.
90-91 AKI = 95 RON – You can probably safely raise the map to 93RON minimum but then you need to make sure you only use premium fuel & preferably premium fuel without 10% alcohol as in Cali & some other states. Alcohols tend to raise RON substantially while having far less of an effect on MON thus effecting the AKI as stated on American pumps. I exclude E85 which is very high ethanol content & high octane and would seem ideal for these sorts of tunes IF YOU HAVE A FLEXFUEL CAR – Don’t use the stuff otherwise or you will swell elastomers & corrode the fuel system to hell with water present.

- Increasing fueling rate appropriately & allowing a map that advances timing would seem appropriate for this modification if this is what these adjustments with the STAR truly achieve. I do not pretend to be a Benz specialist or a boffin with the STAR. I make my comments from base principles. I have not read this thread in detail – I am responding to a question from Karo.

Good luck all :y

Thanks Glyn for your input, as it is always appreciated :y

So, since I run nothing but top tier premium and E85, I should set mine to 93 for octane and slightly enriched for fuel. I will make those changes and report back.

John - basically - Yes. I know you only run high octane fuel. Regarding slight enrichment, while you have not changed engine breathing the standard tune is for economy & blowing a squeaky clean exhaust. A little extra fuel could well give some benefits - especially in driveability

Thanks for your reply Glyn, very helpful info (as always). Sounds like this is safe to do so I will test it out on a members Kompressor engine and report back as well.

I did PM Glyn to get his input on this to see if it's an ideal and safe tweak for a member.

Thanks Glyn and John. I learned a lot from the info you guys provided.

Bruce got back to me and everything is cool now. He is very knowledgeable and I feel terrible for questioning and also insulting his intelligence. Again I would like to apologize to Bruce and wish him and his company luck in the future. He taught most of us something new and instead of thanking him I questioned him and insulted him which I feel like a total ass for doing.

Sorry for my behavior Bruce and thanks for the info.

Bruce, I'm appreciative that you have taken the time to come in here and share some knowledge. I hope that we don't rub you the wrong way in here. Too many times, we get someone in here talking big things with nothing to deliver. Heck, I even recall someone coming in here and saying that tieing a resistor into an 02 output was the way to go.

Karo is a good guy whose intentions are true.

Okay, I'm hoping to get a take away of knowledge here.

Can Star/SDS give me a real time A/F number. As in you get in the car, stomp it and have someone read the resultant numbers?

My beloved M111 engine is a lean runner. Using The SDS, it would seem that I could enrich to the stage 2 for 15% more fuel? Believe me, I could use it. I have a Kleeman Pulley, and a ported S/C.

I'll make my car the guinea pig for the M111. Karo, where you at!

Ed

I'm guessing that will work. If Bruce set the 230k with just a Kleemann header to stage 1 and you have pulley and a ported S/C i'm sure you can bump up an extra 5% (stage 2).

Ed, are you guys going to have a Coupe Pano Roof Meet?? You guys should really set one up, 6 heads are better than 1. :)

Takes a real man to apologize :y

Hey, I tried calling you. I'm down for it.
I'll post in the thread.

Set one up and let me know :y, i'm down.

In my area I have horrible service. Man lately AT&T has been horrible. I think they took down some towers to save money :X

Ed-
I would install some data logging equipment or even get a code reader that has logging capability to monitor your O2 sensors and see what your voltage is which can be translated into an approximate A/F ratio. A wideband will give actual A/F reading as opposed to a narrowband that will give voltage.

Remember LEAN IS MEAN but.........RICH IS SAFE! I don't know if there is anyone with a full Kleemann package but has anyone tried to run a colder plug? 50-100 degree decrease in EGT helps A LOT!!!

Try Stage 1 first and see if that helps at all. How lean are you running?

Honestly guys I thought what I have brought to MBWorld knowledge and help wise and the cars that I have built would have preceded me in this forum but I was wrong. I thought at least some of you(Karo :D) would have searched me out on MBWorld or the internet before flaming me.:y I've learned a long time ago not to get into pi$$ing contests with people that do not do this for a living but sometimes you just have to clear the air.

I am here to help the best I can and if I have access to more C's(besides C63's) I am sure I can find some interesting stuff for you guys to use.

It is all good guys!!:bow::bow:

Karo old sport, thanks for your enthusiasm and help to members on this board,

If we don't ask questions we don't learn so don't be hard on yourself. We have a number of so called tuners on this forum that are total idiots & do it for a living & are sponsors. A certain pulley manufacturer comes to mind. Bruce is of different mettle thank god!

Another thing to remember is that we are not talking racing engines here. Running our engines squeaky lean at close to stoichiometric will not achieve the best output - they need a little more fuel to do that. They will be a dog with 14 to 1> AF ratio. If alcohol is present in the fuel that really messes with things because it is partially oxygenated & only requires an AF ratio of about 9 to 1 to fully combust the alcohol portion which further fouls the equation.

I'm accustomed to tuning 2 stroke 500cc Honda & Yamaha racing motorcycles with tight squish bands & <1 thou piston to bore clearance. These beasts will produce more power the leaner you take them until they seize when you run them under trees in an oxygen rich environment.

So don't be tempted to lean out our cars excessively. You will ruin driveability & create engine stumble, hesitation & potential flat spots even with fuel injection. Our MAFs are simply not accurate enough to go for borderline tuning.

Thanks for your kind words Glyn and the rest of the members. I guess my inappropriate act made this thread more educational :D.

Maybe Bruce can help, hey Bruce have you guys ever done the Fuel Tank Mod on the facelift w203?

I was soo close to getting this done and no joke my laptop battery was low and I didn't want it to shut down so I exited out of DAS (Ed is my witness to the horrible battery life) and now I can't find it.

The Gas Tank Mod (Shows actual miles left on a tank) can be done with DAS in Developer Mode.

ICM>Diagnosis to Plant Specification (Developer Mode)>Variant Coding>then something like tankinfo + reiche....

I saw it before and now can't find it. Maybe i'm not looking hard enough.

i am interested in having both of my rear fog light's work and my engine fan kicking in 15 degrees sooner

Change your sig loser. I'll hook you up with that, but i'm going to ask more of a favor in return.

Do US delivered cars not show miles or kilometres to empty? I wonder who made that decision??? All SA cars do - pre & post facelift. I find it most useful.

Nope, all we get is just a light on the cluster. I don't know why they would do that to us :nix: It's a very useful feature. John when you get a chance can you see if you can get it to work?? I don't remember if I sent you the Developer Key with the CDs but if not I can email it to you.

Wait what? I have a miles to empty meter, its on the same menu with the start mpg and avg mpg. The warning light comes on with about 60 miles to empty, and the pull up to a pump now warning comes up at exactly 30 miles to empty. Below 30 miles the meter doesn't work and only shows a picture of the car pulling up to a gas pump.

It is not miles to empty, it is GALLONS to empty, and it is not enabled on US cars. Mine was enabled by Sunil about a year ago. I remember seeing it when playing around in STAR. I'll post where it is at when I get a chance.

The engine fan kicking on sooner is called Desert Mode.

Karo-
DAS Simulation doesn't show all items for every model in each class so I couldn't find it when I was in this mode. I tried though!:y

You don't need Developer mode for MANY items that you can change though normal SDS use. You just have to agree to transfer the coding and that will save it.

If only I had access to a couple of W203 and W204's.............the things I could find. I just finished updating to Xentry so now have COMPLETE ACCESS to W204's, W207's and W212's! Let the fun begin!:eek:

Wait it's only gallons or miles? I was told it's miles. If it's only gallons it's not a big deal for me, I want actual miles.

I was told by Rollnnn that there is a Gas Tank mod that he saw where actual miles are shown. I couldn't find it anywhere in the ICM. I even did an Initial Start and programmed the ICM and again nothing. That's when I went to Developer and looked through all the German (I did learn a little German thanks to DAS :-) and something that said tankinfo which I thought was the gas tank info and man my battery was soo low so I exited out of DAS so it doesn't turn off while i'm in a control unit.

It's all good Bruce, thanks for trying. If I figure it out i'll document it so you guys can offer it to the w203 guys.

Mine now says "Distance 169 miles"

I'll have to take it out for a spin later and see if this number decreases. If it does then this is Miles left to Empty

Mine has always shown distance till empty (Range). Sunil programmed "tank content" for me. See this pic: Top line was there from the factory bottom line added via STAR.

http://lh3.ggpht.com/_8Kf4h7wR_Hs/TA...0/100_1060.jpg

Wow thanks for the pic John.

Mine just says Distance. Do you recall how this was done?

Hell Ya....I did it!!!!!

Before:

https://mbworld.org/forums/attachmen...1&d=1275701822


Process: (notice those 2 "tankinfo" have to be activated" then you must go in actuations and "ECU Reset" all done in Developer Mode)

https://mbworld.org/forums/attachmen...1&d=1275701822

https://mbworld.org/forums/attachmen...1&d=1275701822

After:

https://mbworld.org/forums/attachmen...1&d=1275701822


Sorry for the crap quality cell phone pics

Summary:
ICM> Developer Mode> Variant Coding> Variant Coderung> Change to avtivate> Actuations> ECU Reset (always have to reset in developer mode while in regular reset is done automatically)

You can see before it said my miles left were 98. After it says my miles left are 169. I believe this is because it checks your actual miles per gallon. Since I did a reset it probably went back to normal instead of my heavy foot driving :)

i wonder if this is possible on pre facelift ones such as mine?

Trey - on pre facelift cars you can certainly have Range = xx Miles/Km, or Remaining fuel: xx Gals/litres. I don't know whether it can display both at the same time. Pre facelift cars frequently have more bells & whistles that you can switch in than post facelift.

On my '04 it will display "range" in miles or km. Presumably this is based on a number of factors such as : quantity in tank, current mpg, current speed, etc. getting number of gallons left would be nice as well as real-time mpg.

All the data for real-time mpg is being captured (albeit not as accurately a a Pierburg flow meter) to give you your rolling average consumption - far more useful. While living in Aus a few years back I had a Holden Berlina 3.8 V6 as a company car that had real-time l/100Km or mpg. At idle/stationary it gave you litres per hour & then jumped into l/100Km or mpg the minute you were moving. Unless it's heavily damped & thus somewhat inaccurate, it's a pain in the butt. You accelerate hard and it shoots down to 1 mpg then coast & it shoots up to 90 mpg which is useless. I suppose it encourages more economical driving but otherwise it is hopeless.

Totally agree with Glyn. Our cars have it better than most though. My gf's VW shoots between 5 and 40 at cruising speeds. My boss' X5 has a needle that goes from 0-25+ at idle and for no reason at all.
I'm just glad that my estimaes don't jump around like they have adhd.

Pre Facelift is the bomb dizzle. They get a digital dipstick while we get a horrible, no use, crap dipstick that isn't precise.

Trey come down to California and I'll do this on your car.

Lol i actually want to drive across the USA in the next few years. Yeah i have range but would like both lol.

Another interesting thing is John's says Range but mine says Distance. His says Tank Content but mine says Fuel Level.

I wonder if his instrument cluster is an updated one. I look in Developer Mode and I couldn't find anything that would change these descriptions.

Heaven knows. My old 2003 says "Range"

hmm, I guess year doesn't matter then.

Milkman came over so we can take a look at his car with the STAR. His says the exact same as mine. Maybe it's an 06 thing :nix:

We also looked at his car and his was set at Base Value. There is Base Value, 89, 91 and 93. Now i'm wondering what Base Value means. Does this mean lower than 89 :eek:. We upped his to 91 and without an adaptation reset he said he felt better RPM and a slight faster RPM increase (same effects that I felt). Also there is NO way to enrich his car (Base Value, Slightly Enrich, Enrich and Lean Out). I thought I saw it on mine but I plugged it in and again I couldn't see the Enriching on my car. I believe what I saw and had pictures were in DAS Simulator Mode.

We played with the Desert Mode and we haven't confirmed if his Fan came on earlier because of the heat we have now in SoCal but he said he didn't notice his Car running cooler because of the Temp guage but the more i'm thinking I believe his car won't run cooler just because the fan turns on quicker.

Thanks for Reading.

Karo-
Without a lower temp thermostat you will not see a car running cooler according to the temp gauge with the fan coming on sooner. It will keep the car from reaching its previous higher temp than before the fan mod.

Do a lower temp thermostat in conjunction with the fan coming on sooner and it will run cooler.

Keep up the great work MAD PROGRAMMER/MASTER SDS MANIPULATOR!!:naughty:

Thanks Bruce, only one problem and it might be a solution rather than a problem.

The m272 I don't think has a traditional Thermostat. It has a "Electrical Assisted Thermostat" http://www.freesmileys.org/smileys/s...onfused004.gif. It seems you can control the temperature of the thermostat as well as the fan?

http://img691.imageshack.us/img691/4...thermostat.png

MB is WACK!!!:crazy:

I will delve into SDS and see if I can find something on this.

An old trick that we did back in the day is to drill small holes around the top of the t-stat to keep the coolant flowing even when the t-stat is fully closed. I'm not saying it will work with one that is electronically controlled but it should!:D

Let's chat - I have a w203 sitting in the garage - Kleeman Headers and Kleeman power kit (Renntech IC as well). I just picked up a DAS system to reset the Airbag light in an '08 smart car. I'd rather not randomly mess with them -

I'll shoot you an email tomorrow.

Thanks,
Erik

Me and Bruce chatted up via PMs and Bruce has been the worthiest Sponsor that I have spoken too (maybe there are more but I haven't spoken to them yet). He has great knowledge about cars and has amazing skills with DAS. Too bad I'm all the way on the other side of the country.

Karo - all that electro assisted thermostat gubbins is designed to maximise engine efficiency under all engine operating conditions. Benz design goals for M272 were 15% reduction in fuel consumption with stable running over the M112 & to meet upcoming Euro emissions standards which would include fitment of 3 way Cats later in the engine's life cycle in markets where ultra low sulphur fuels were available like Europe. This is the sort of attention to detail that is necessary to meet Euro emissions.

No 3 way Cats are fitted for the US market because your fuel is high sulphur & would produce carcinogenic benzines at the tailpipe with high sulphur fuel & 3 way Cat's. The electro assisted thermostat might not be fitted to US cars - you should check. It is fitted to SA cars.

You guys are looking for power so you don't care about consumption & emissions. If it is fitted to US cars there must be some way of mapping it with STAR - maybe only in developer mode.

Glyn, it seems like the US Spec cars have these as well (based on my VIN) I still get instructions to remove it BUT the instructions might still be there regardless.

Both the 203 3.5 and 204 3.5 are confirmed to have this. (204 is the 204's instruction and thermostat is the 203's)

I have looked in Developer Mode but have not noticed anything Thermostat related or even temperature related :confused:. I will give it another try again.

There is a desert mode which I was told the fan kicks in earlier. I still don't get this because the fan kicks in with temperature, what would kicking it couple of degrees earlier help in deserts??

What do they have to do with eachother?

Just wanted to update Karo and others.

I just changed the octane setting in my car from "Base Value", to "Minimum 93". I reset adaptations, and also Reset Ethanol values. I have E85 in there now.

Heading out for a test drive will report back later.

Mine also had no settings for fuel correction either.

OP Update
 

Hello OP here. Wow, didnt think a fun mod would cause some controversy. Just wanted to share and keep it fun.

Ok so for some updates. After the Kleeman headers and SDS changes (Not ECU tune), I went and did some self mods. Small but again wanted to keep the drivability on the car but add more fun.

1st up: Exhaust?

I did not want an exhaust. From what Ive read, changing the cat back on this car did not give much gains in the forum posts. Mine is the 2005 C230k sedan so the stock exhaust goes like this:

Manifold-> Primary Cat-> downpipe-> Secondary Cat-> Midpipe-> Muffler

Looking under the car after the Kleeman header, the downpipe goes into an anlge inlet into a secondary ceramic cat. This must be terrible for backpressure as the honeycomb in the secondary cat is straight but the inlet is angled! after this, the midpipe looks 2.5 diameter into the stock muffler. Again, keeping in mind I dont want a loud exhaust I decided to keep the stock midpipe back and concentrate on that secondary cat after the kleeman downpipe.

step 1: i removed the secondary cat. What a terrible mistake! Not only is this angled inlet terrible for backpressure, but apparently this part did most of the silencing of the exhaust. It sounded embarrising to drive honestly. To mitigate this sound, I went with a louvered resonator right after that turn before the flange for midpipe. This replaced the noise cancellation secondary cat did but relieved some of the backpressure. This probably restored some backpressure (compared to a perforated design) but I needed to keep this car sounding stock. That did the trick and I actually like the sound now. Very deep at start up, quieter after a minute warm up. Clearly a better flow. Its pretty agressive at WOT, but almost stock in normal driving and highway cruising. No really noticable gains but obviously better flowing than before.

Now my set up is:

Kleeman Header-> HFCat-> Downpipe-> Resonator-> Midpipe-> Muffler


2nd up: Bored Throttle Body?

I went ahead and got an OEM throttle body and had it bored out. I think the achievement was 2-3mm. Not much but the intake portion of this set up from what I understand, not much to be gained on the intake. the stock cold air box and enourmous cone filter is enough for the boost application here. I decided to go with the throttle body because the access to having it bored out was easy enough for me. Pics below. The idea here was to free up restriction because of the tiny TB of a supercharged car.

The drive here was awesome. Immediate Throttle response. At highway driving car downshifts much faster than before. One thing I noticed. WOT, the car revved to 6200RPM. Redline is 6000RPM and I do not recall it doing this before.

Question, is this possible?


As usual pics below. These two mods no way matched the feel after the Kleeman Header. I think the only other possible mod for this car is going to be Pulley/ECU tune. Now only if Corey gives me a deal.


F/S stock M271 Throttle Body 35k miles!

Looking good :y

Couple of the M271 guys have bored their throttle body and even got it dynoed. I believe they gained 3hp which isn't bad. Keep up the mods :y

That's insulting dude.
 

I had OE tunes flash tune my stock 03 c230k Manual with just a performance air filter and it made just over a 1 sec difference 0-60mph and I can lay rubber in 1st and grab 2nd every time with new tires while before could not even make them squeak. Placebo effect? That's freaking insulting dude!