Stock Performance 101 Question
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Junior Member
Joined: Feb 2003
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Stock Performance 101 Question
Ok, I've never owned either a supercharged or turbocharged engine. I understand how they work and what the basic pro/con arguments are for each. But my practical experience is very noobish.
So, practically speaking, I drove a Saab 9-3 Linear this last weekend, with the 2.0t 175 hp, 195ft lb engine, and noticed a HUGE diffference between it and the 230K Sed. Hoping for your help in seeking why - what lies behind the numbers.
Comparing the hp and torque charts, weight, etc, the 230K Sedan and the 9-3 look fairly similar - with an admitted edge to the 230K. However, the 9-3 was the BIGGEST dog at 65+ miles per hour and the engine sounded like a Tercel, Civic or something. The 230K is a relative rocket at the same speed, purrs like a kitten.
What supernatural forces are at play here?
So, practically speaking, I drove a Saab 9-3 Linear this last weekend, with the 2.0t 175 hp, 195ft lb engine, and noticed a HUGE diffference between it and the 230K Sed. Hoping for your help in seeking why - what lies behind the numbers.
Comparing the hp and torque charts, weight, etc, the 230K Sedan and the 9-3 look fairly similar - with an admitted edge to the 230K. However, the 9-3 was the BIGGEST dog at 65+ miles per hour and the engine sounded like a Tercel, Civic or something. The 230K is a relative rocket at the same speed, purrs like a kitten.
What supernatural forces are at play here?
MBWorld Fanatic!
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 1,416
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From: Charlotte, NC
Had: 1987 300TD, Had: 2004 C230 Sport Sedan, Have: 2014 E350 Sport, Have: 2019 S450
Don't know for sure what supernatural forces were at play, but I can take a guess. . .
Most likely, the difference is a combination of:
1) Turbo lag - the C230K (supercharged) has very little delay between throttle tip-in and boost production whereas the Saab (turbocharged) has to start producing more exhaust to spin the turbo faster, to produce more power (one mississippi, two mississippi)
2) Gearing - if both cars are producing similar hp/torque, then they both have the same power. The seat-of-the-pants feel should be the same if both cars running in the same gear. If the Saab was a manual compared to a Benz automatic, then most likely the difference was due to transmission 'kick-down' during acceleration.
The smoothness is probably due to some German magic (that and paying attention to piston/connecting rod weights, the dual balance shafts, and the 55lb flywheel).
If you get the 9-3 are you going to be changing your handle from 'AudiDude' to 'SaabStory'?
Most likely, the difference is a combination of:
1) Turbo lag - the C230K (supercharged) has very little delay between throttle tip-in and boost production whereas the Saab (turbocharged) has to start producing more exhaust to spin the turbo faster, to produce more power (one mississippi, two mississippi)
2) Gearing - if both cars are producing similar hp/torque, then they both have the same power. The seat-of-the-pants feel should be the same if both cars running in the same gear. If the Saab was a manual compared to a Benz automatic, then most likely the difference was due to transmission 'kick-down' during acceleration.
The smoothness is probably due to some German magic (that and paying attention to piston/connecting rod weights, the dual balance shafts, and the 55lb flywheel).
If you get the 9-3 are you going to be changing your handle from 'AudiDude' to 'SaabStory'?
Senior Member
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 350
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From: Stamford, CT
2003 C230
Audidude, I test drove the 9-3 also
Other than the very low pricing and zero percent financing and the good exterior looks there should be no other reason to look at that car. The Audi A4 1.8T and the C230K Sport Sedan have it beat in every other category, especially the engine department and interior appointments.
CZ
CZ
Member
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 92
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From: Toronto
There are many things which affect acceleration. Other factors besides hp, torque include: weight, drivetrain efficiency, powerband, & gearing.
While 2 manufacturers may claim similar hp, torque, there are varying degrees of getting that power to the wheels (which is more important). If a drivetrain is not efficient in getting this done, then the official hp, torque figures are somewhat insignificant.
Powerband is about having the power available throughout the rev range, as opposed to just peak numbers. For example, a 225 hp car @ 6000 rpm may be as fast as a 260 hp car @ 6500 rpm, if throughout most of the rpm range it is producing nearly as much power. In this case, the 35 hp advantage would only be at the car's peak or near peak, & not at all rpm ranges.
While 2 manufacturers may claim similar hp, torque, there are varying degrees of getting that power to the wheels (which is more important). If a drivetrain is not efficient in getting this done, then the official hp, torque figures are somewhat insignificant.
Powerband is about having the power available throughout the rev range, as opposed to just peak numbers. For example, a 225 hp car @ 6000 rpm may be as fast as a 260 hp car @ 6500 rpm, if throughout most of the rpm range it is producing nearly as much power. In this case, the 35 hp advantage would only be at the car's peak or near peak, & not at all rpm ranges.
