Gynecologist MD

All I want to see is a stock C63 beat a stock e92 M3.

Then again, you don't see BMW with a car comparing to a SLS or SLR. ;P

W203E35

It happens quite often.

Gynecologist MD

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DaZExdTHHjY

W203E35

Let me ask you a question. When you race someone do you race them on the street or on a track??

C63 is faster than an M3 period.

W203E35

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DvfZS40LOAo

Bye Bye M3

W203E35

The m3 is a freeway car though. I will admit on a roll it should keep up or even beat the C63. Similar the the E63 vs M5. But a little simple flash on the C63 and the tables turn. I love both cars but I just love the raw power of the C63. M3 is fast too but more agile.

MIKESV8

the e9x m3 is like vtec, it doesn't make power until 5k

W203E35

W203E35

My all time favorite...actually it's Phi's all time favorite

OneOfaKindTrini

Im in my primitive space now guys . Mitsubishi decided to go with the SST gearbox in the MR because it is just faster shifting, they got it wrong in 2008 when the MR was weighing a million tons, but in 2010 they released the SE model which had the SST but none of the other heavy shyt you don't need. Mitsubishi engineer's actually took the idea from the DCT in the VW R32, they was a video on GTChanel. They could do with raising the RPM where the launch control is at.

Gynecologist MD

Is it just me or is it that all ricers go crazy if they have v-tec? They brag as if they have a twincharged system or something, lmao

OneOfaKindTrini

Is ricer a term we really use anymore? A "ricer" is typically a slow car that makes a lot of noise..

You don't realize that a newer I-vtec will basically rape your C240. You should drive a newer 05+ RSX type-s.

Sorry I don't take nicely to people doing that and saying things that they don't know.

Gynecologist MD

Any car would rape my C240.

Ricer, referring to people with a cute, older Honda Civic, being like, "Yeah dude I got V-Tec!!!!!!!"

It's them not knowing what V-Tec actually is, and claiming (bragging) they have a turbo or something.


Conversation:
Him: check my car out! I got vtec!
Me: yet, you have a N/A 2.0
Him: dude, I got vtec!

Annoying.

Understand where I'm going?

OneOfaKindTrini

I know what you are getting at, v-Tec is like the world to them

The sad thing is that most of those older honda's are a SINGLE V, not even DOHC

Gynecologist MD

I just shut up so they feel like they own something baddass

phister

Actually there is two stages in VTEC if you know honda engines. First stage is from 1000rpm to 2400rpm then it cuts off until it reengages back at 5200-5300. Honda built this was so that it can give you initial power on take off and then conserves fuel for cruising and if you drive hard and high into the rpm band it engages so that more air can be forced in so it wont starve for air in the top end. MB could've have thought of something like this for M272 since many complain about low end power and Jeremy at OE and Jerry at EC even says that these engine die at upper rpms because its not getting enough air. You cant knock Honda and VTEC because Toyota has VVT-i which is the same thing. All it is is a variable valving timing system so the engine operates at optimal condition on how you drive.

Only the unacknowledged in the import scene think VTEC is all high and might. Most that really know about the honda engines know that alot of the aftermarkets cams for them REMOVE VTEC/ or keep the lobes for the Vtec through out the entire powerband. Also many of the standalone systems when they are tuned move the vtec engagement all the way to 700 rpm or to 9k so that there wont be any switch over.

I'd like to see MB build a 4 cyclinder engine like the F20C or F22C thats in the S2000 and put it in a coupe. 237hp 154tq redlining at 9k.

I dont side with either or, I just respect how each engine is built and what can be done to them. I love honda engines cause you take two different engines and still have them fit and work. MB needs to do that more so we can beef up our engines. Cale has found some parts that are interchangeable so hopefully we can find more.

LILBENZ230

Good post, Phi.. I agree. VTEC isn't the problem, it is the ricer fanboi's lack of knowledge that gives it such a bad rep.

As far as MB vs BMW and this whole 6MT vs DCT/DSG/ETC... stuff.. I could give a *****. I don't care how much quicker that automagic can change gears. I want a 6MT because that makes the car a million times more enjoyable. And BMW still offers that type of enjoyment in a ton of applications where Mercedes does not - to me, a big, big, big plus.

Gynecologist MD

I agree with the 6MT as well. It'd be pretty awesome to have that as an option for MB's new cars.

phister

+1 on manual... My gf IS250 has the pedal shifters on the steering wheel and the quick shift on the gear box, makes no sense to me. I like the feel of the clutch pedal, only time I hate manual is in stop and go traffic.

W203E35

Great post Phi!!

phister

Also on a side note... Almost ALL car manf. use a form of variable valve timing (VVT)... MB just started using continuous VVT in the M272 engines.

VVT implementations

• Aftermarket modifications — Conventional hydraulic tappet can be engineered to rapidly bleed-down for variable reduction of valve opening and duration.
• Alfa Romeo
  • Twin Cam — some versions are equipped with Variable Valve Timing technology.
  • Twin Spark — is equipped with Variable Valve Timing technology.
  • JTS — is equipped with Variable Valve Timing technology, both intake and exhaust.
  • Multiair continuously varies the timing of the inlet valve by changing oil pressure.
• BMW
  • Valvetronic — Provides continuously variable lift for the intake valves; used in conjunction with Double VANOS.
  • VANOS — Varies intake timing by rotating the camshaft in relation to the gear.
  • Double VANOS — Continuously varies the timing of the intake and exhaust valves.
• Daihatsu
  • DVVT — Daihatsu Variable Valve Timing. Continuously varies the timing of the intake camshaft, or both the intake and exhaust camshafts (depending on application).
• Fiat
  • "Twin Cam - VIS" engine - is equipped with Variable Valve Timing technology.
  • "StarJet" FIRE-based engine.
• Ford
  • VCT Variable Cam Timing — Varies valve timing by rotating the camshaft.
  • Ti-VCT Twin Independent Variable Camshaft with two fully variable camshafts used in Ford Sigma engine and Ford Duratec engine.
• Chrysler — Varies valve timing through the use of concentric camshafts developed by Mechadyne enabling dual-independent inlet/exhaust valve adjustment on the 2008 Dodge Viper.
• General Motors Corporation (GM)
  • VVT — Varies valve timing continuously throughout the RPM range for both intake and exhaust for improved performance in both overhead valve and overhead cam engine applications.(See also Northstar System).
  • DCVCP (Double Continuous Variable Cam Phasing) — Varies intake and exhaust camshaft timing continuously with hydraulic vane type phaser; available on Family 1, Family 0, and Family II engines.
  • Alloytec — Continuously variable camshaft phasing for inlet cams; continuously variable camshaft phasing for inlet cams and exhaust cams (High Output Alloytec).
• Honda
  • VTEC — Varies duration, timing and lift by switching between two different sets of cam lobes.
  • VTEC-E — This system is designed solely for the purpose of improving fuel economy. A variation of the VTEC mechanism is used to create an offset of lift between the two intake valves, one valve opening only slightly to prevent accumulation of fuel in the intake port. The asymmetrical opening of the intake valves creates a powerful swirl in the combustion chamber and allows for a very lean intake charge to be used under certain conditions. Under normal operation the two intake valve rocker arms are locked together and both valves follow the normal lift cam profile.
  • i-VTEC — In high-output DOHC 4 cylinder engines, the i-VTEC system adds continuous intake cam phasing (timing) to traditional VTEC. In economy-oriented SOHC and DOHC 4-cylinder engines the i-VTEC system increases engine efficiency by delaying the closure of the intake valves under certain conditions and by using an electronically controlled throttle valve to reduce pumping loss. In SOHC V6 engines the i-VTEC system is used to provide Variable Cylinder Management which deactivates one bank of three cylinders during low demand operation.
  • Advanced VTEC — This is the latest Honda VVT system and is the most unusual of all the VTEC systems. Rather than switching between cam lobes the Advanced VTEC system uses intermediate rocker arms with a variable fulcrum to continuously vary intake valve timing, duration and lift.
• Hyundai MPI CVVT — Varies power, torque, exhaust system, and engine response.
• Iran Khodro
  • CVVT-i - Continuous Variable Valve Timing Intelligence which is used for EF7 & EF4 engines of the IKCO EF engines family.
• Kawasaki — Varies position of cam by changing oil pressure thereby advancing and retarding the valve timing, 2008 Concours 14 (also known as the 1400GTR).
• Lexus VVT-iE — Continuously varies the intake camshaft timing using an electric actuator.
• Mazda S-VT — Continually varies intake timing and crank angle using an oil control valve actuated by the ECU to control oil pressure.
• Mitsubishi MIVEC — Varies valve timing, duration and lift by switching between two different sets of cam lobes.
  • The 4B1 engine series uses a different variant of MIVEC which varies timing (phase) of both intake and exhaust camshafts continuously.
  • The 4N1 engine family is the world's first to feature a variable valve timing system applied to passenger car diesel engines.
• Nissan
  • N-VCT — Varies the rotation of the cam(s) only, does not alter lift or duration of the valves.
  • VVL — Varies timing, duration, and lift of the intake and exhaust valves by using two different sets of cam lobes.
  • CVTCS - introduced with the HR15DE, HR16DE, MR18DE and MR20DE engines in September 2004 on the Nissan Tiida and North American version named Nissan Versa (in 2007); and finally the Nissan Sentra (in 2007). Also used on the new MR16DDT
  • VVEL - introduced with the VQ37VHR Nissan VQ engine engine in 2007 on the Infiniti G37.
• Porsche
  • VarioCam — Varies intake timing by adjusting tension of a cam chain.
  • VarioCam Plus — Varies intake valve timing by rotating the cam in relation to the cam sprocket as well as duration, timing and lift of the intake and exhaust valves by switching between two different sets of cam lobes.
• Proton
  • Campro CPS — Varies intake valve timing and lift by switching between two sets of cam lobes without using rocker arms as in most variable valve timing systems. Debuted in the 2008 Proton Gen-2 CPS[9][10] and the 2008 Proton Waja CPS.
  • VVT introduced in the Waja 1.8's F4P renault engine (Toyota supplies the VVT to renault)
• PSA Peugeot Citroën CVVT — Continuous variable valve timing.
• Renault Clio Renault Sport 172, 172 Cup, 182, 182 Cup, Trophy, 197, 197 Cup, 200, and Clio V6 Mk2 VVT — Megane 1.6 vvt variable valve timing. Clio Mk4 Dynamique S 1.6 VVT. RS Twingo 133 1.6 VVT
• Rover VVC — Varies timing with an eccentric disc.
• Suzuki — VVT — Suzuki M engine
• Subaru
  • AVCS — Varies timing (phase) with hydraulic pressure, used on turbocharged and six-cylinder Subaru engines.
  • AVLS — Varies duration, timing and lift by switching between two different sets of cam lobes (similar to Honda VTEC). Used by non-turbocharged Subaru engines.
• Toyota
  • VVT — Toyota 4A-GE 20-Valve engine introduced VVT in the 1992 Corolla GT-versions.
  • VVT-i — Continuously varies the timing of the intake camshaft, or both the intake and exhaust camshafts (depending on application).
  • VVTL-i — Continuously varies the timing of the intake valves. Varies duration, timing and lift of the intake and exhaust valves by switching between two different sets of cam lobes.
  • Valvematic
• Vauxhall - VVT used in the facelift Vectra 1.8 engines, Astra's and Corsa's.
• Volkswagen Group — VVT introduced with later revisions of the 1.8t engine, and the 30-valve 2.8 L V6. Similar to VarioCam, the intake timing intentionally runs advanced and a retard point is calculated by the ECU. A hydraulic tensioner retards the intake timing. Most modern VW Group petrol engines now include VVT on either the inlet cam, or both inlet and exhaust cams, as in their V6, V8 and V10 engines.
• Volvo
  • CVVT — Continuous variable valve timing on intake and/or exhaust camshafts (depending on application).
  • CPS — Changes valve timing, duration and lift of the intake valves by switching between two different sets of cam lobes. Same basic technology as Porsches VarioCam Plus with switching direct-acting tappets. To date this is only used on Volvos short inline-6 (SI6) naturally-aspirated 3.2 L engine.
• Yamaha — VCT (Variable Cam Timing) Varies position of cam thereby advancing and retarding the valve timing.

giannidy

Phi is on a roll tonight

tommy

VTEC was amazing engineering at its time. MB's "bigger is better" motiv was more caveman engine building than true engineering excellence, imho, and now they're playing catch-up with some of the other companies out there.

I've never heard the "ricer" term in the way you describe it, Gynie, honestly. It's either been used to describe a slow Japanese car with a fart can or scary cosmetic mods but no go, or a person of Asian descent driving a car like that, which is why it has been phased out for the most part, because of the racial/racist connotations. I've had my CRX since 1993, so I've pretty much seen all of the fads come and go. There have been a bunch of funny ones - the "I put more more fiberglass, vents, and hood inlets on my car than you did on yours" timeframe of the mid-to-late 90s was my personal favorite.

I'd take a manny M3 over any AMG, any day, any time, even one of those hideous colors that they came out with the prior two gens.

Das Geld 2

You know absolutely nothing about BMW or Mercedes,otherwise you wouldn't say such nonsense.

Also you would know the M3 transmission is only a big problem right now

samaritrey

I like how you criticize but don't point out how he is wrong besides saying the m3 has transmission issues. So how is he wrong?

Using the c63 as an example it is know to not handle as well as an m3 but can out run an m3 in a drag race. The c63 is way to tail happy that said i would love one for daily traffic to and from work but if i was buying a weekend car the m3 manual would be my choice (i am not a huge bmw fan BTW)

BTW matt has a c230k and a 135i