adamrs80

Thinking of getting the C230 Sedan but I'm not sure about the new engine. I know even though the M111 isn't the smoothest engine, it should last a really long time and is very durable. I figure some of this has to do with the relativly low boost the engine runs, and the cast iron block that makes it so strong. I know alot of you guys haev extensive knowledge of engines and materials so could some of you shed some light on this? Can we expect the same longevity out of the new 1.8 running higher boost/aluminum block. I don't plan on modifying other than maybe an intercooler. Can anybody fill me in on all the differences between the M111 and the new 1.8. Same redline? I know all the output numbers. Does the new 1.8 rev quicker than the M111. Any input is appreciated on the new engine.

levelr123g

well the block material has nothing to do with longevity. thr reason i say this is if you have an aluminum block, but steel cylinders then it doesnt matter. if you have a steel block with steel cylinders, it would be the same as having the other block. now if you have an aluminum block with nikasel or other material as the cylinder liner then MAYBE you might have a longevity issue but doubt it. i wouldnt worry about it as you could have a strong block but then you could total your car in an accident with less then a thousand miles on it, at this point who cares.

Outland

Aluminum is nothing to fear in terms of engine block construction. Aluminum has been used for many many years, and has proven itself to be well up to the task. Actually, MB is behind the times, as most other manufacturers have embraced all aluminum blocks in even inexpensive cars. Nothing that actually 'wears' rides on the aluminum. Aluminum costs more to cast, and there are more concerns regarding porosity- but the casting is cheaper to machine than iron, and the resulting engine is much lighter.

Quote:

Can we expect the same longevity out of the new 1.8 running higher boost/aluminum block.

That remains to be seen, but I don't see why not. The supercharger is supposedly modified for the increased boost, and boost isn't what kills a forced induction motor- its detonation and baked bearings.

Quote:

Does the new 1.8 rev quicker than the M111. Any input is appreciated on the new engine.

A few people have said that they think the 1.8 revs quicker, but I didn't notice much of a difference- the HP and torque is what moves the car, not the willingness to rev in neutral. It is quieter and somewhat smoother in the upper revs, but its noticeably less torquey- something that you can feel in the higher gears at lower revs. Then engine compartment is a bit of a letdown- the old M111 was a nice looking motor, and made a real impression when you popped the hood. The M271 doesn't have that 'wow' factor. Its a good match for the C230 sedan thou, decent fuel economy, and good performance.

Mike T.

Ours is the M111 and we feel that it's a very good engine, and at a tick under 84 HP/L, not under much stress even though it's the most powerful version of that engine.

The M271 is definitely more modern, and also has a higher specific power output than the M111 at 105 HP/L of displacement. This is in the same league as the BMW M3, which is at about 107 HP/L, and everyone knows that the M3 engine has its problems, reliability-wise. So much for the ultimate driving machine...

The specific output difference would be no big deal if the materials in the M271 are of a superior quality to those in the M111. If they're the same, then the M271 will probably be less reliable. Who knows?

As for aluminium (yes, the word is spelled wrong in the USA) blocks, I am partial to those of French design, which have centrifugal cast iron wet cylinder liners. These take all the combustion stresses and impart little of that to the aluminium block. Peugeot's been building engines like this since the 204 of 1965, and they are fabulously reliable, nearly the equal of the legendary iron block/wet liner X series 404 and 504 engines. Where an aluminium block is simply bored out and coated with a silica-based compound, the aluminium must take the combustion pressures on its own. Being a far softer and more brittle material than iron, this would require careful design to compensate. No doubt Mercedes has done a good job with its design.

Then there is the question of wear and what happens when you want to rebuild the engine. With a sleeved engine like both my Peugeots have, just buy a piston/sleeve kit and that's taken care of. Apparently it's possible to have Nikasil coatings reapplied, but first the cylinders would have to be bored out, slightly weakening the cylinder wall (by making it thinner). Perhaps the safest thing to do in that situation is to buy a new block.

Most of this is not important to most people. I'm sure an M271, well maintained, would see the better side of 350,000 km.

Would I buy a C 230 K sedan? You bet. Would I trade my 2002 C 230 K Sportcoupé for a 2003? Nope.