young

if anyone's interested. don't get mad; its just a review and you don't have to necessarily agree w/ it.


Auto.com

SoCal240/6

Sorry (keep in mind this is my own personal opinion only, which isn't worth jack), but I think that article is dead spot on. Basically took the words right out of my mouth.

I think the market will prove it, too, just like it did with the 318Ti. Most of the people that I know (wife, friends, etc) are surprised that MB would build such a thing. Most people I know kinda view the MB Hatchback buyers as "poseurs." (I don't agree with that, and think that many people probably view me, with a C240, the same way). It really is true: Most Americans (unlike Europeans) view Hatchbacks as "cheap cars." And, the MB is a true Hatchback, looking very similar to the old VW Corrado.

The biggest problem with the Hatchback is really the price. The base is low, but the roof is a must have. So are the upgraded wheels, the standard wheels are pretty bad. By the time you reasonably option it out, its a pretty damn expensive car, esp. for a 4 banger Hatchback.

For those that bought (as opposed to rented), I hope the market is kind. As those cars age and get a little tattered, and the novelty wears off, I fear they are going to be treated as lower level cars.

On the other hand, who cares what others think?!? As long as a Hatchback buyer likes the car and feels he/she got a good value, that is all that really matters.

Rick

Funny....I recall similar comments made about the SLK230 when it first arrived on these shores...
IMHO, MB could have done better with a wider variety of power plants including the 240 and 320 in the coupe...but maybe that will come in time, as it did with the SLK.

Buellwinkle

I hope my C230 does as well as the 318Ti in the used market. I see these cars for sale for 18-20k, not bad for a car that sold for 20k 4 years ago. What I think will happen is that it may deteriorate the C240's resale because why buy a 2 year old C240 when you can get a brand new and faster C230. It's a tough call but the C240 has some real competition now with the 2.5 Jag-X. It's a very nice car, roomier, faster, and nicer looking. I bought my C230 for 25k and if I were gonna spend 33k for a C240, I would have definitely gotten the Jag.

Lynn

The X type was one of the three finalists in my car search. After doing back to back to back road tests with the Lexus IS300, X type and C230k, I agree with everything you say. What you didn't mention was inferior build quality, seats that are the most uncomfortable I have ever sat in (including coach seats in airliners), and it rides like a hay wagon and that wasn't the sports suspension like the one in the picture. It is gorgeous, though.

Given the choice between a C240 and an X type, I'd buy the Jag, replace the seats with Recaros, carry a tool kit to replace the bits which come loose, and it doesn't ride any worse than my 280z.

Blue Benz

IMO the C240 has too much weight for a C-class and not enough power. 168 HP out of a 2.6L V-6? It should be putting out around 190 HP. Better yet the 230 Kompressor engine should have been offered in the C sedan.

SoCal240/6

$18-20,000 for a used 318Ti?!? LOL! No offense, but dude, you are way, way off. The 318Ti is a $7500-$9000 car. $10K buys you a very nice example any day, all day. Just a couple links, see below. Maybe people ask $18K for one, but they are on drugs and would never actually sell it for anywhere near that.

http://www.autotrader.com/findacar/v...&ac_afflt=none

http://www.autotrader.com/findacar/v...&ac_afflt=none

http://www.autotrader.com/findacar/v...&ac_afflt=none

http://www.autotrader.com/findacar/v...&ac_afflt=none

X-Type is ok, but too much Ford influence, plus I don't like the cobbled together 4WD system, which was done ONLY because the X type is based on a front wheel drive Ford chassis. I just would not like the fact that it shares a large percentage of its parts with the Ford Mondeo. Jac Nasser just got fired as the CEO of ford, and quality problems was one of the big reasons. No ford products for me, thanks.

I don't recall any bad press on the SLK when it came out. In fact, it seemed to be very well received.

I agree, the C240 should have more power. As a stick shift, it is barely adequate, with the automatic it becomes unacceptable for a $33K+ car, IMO. But, no thanks to that rough, noisy 4 banger in the C sedan. I'd rather have the less powerful, but infinately smoother V6 any day. No Mfr could get away with a 4 banger in a luxury or semi luxury sedan in the 21st century, supercharged or otherwise, and MB knew that when dropping the 4 banger from the C sedan line.

SoCal240/6

BTW, another major reason for not purchasing the "Jaguar" is posted right above.

Put your finger over the grille and headlights on the picture above, and what do you see? A Ford Taurus or Mondeo economy car!

greg230

hmm, your kinda giving a very limited picture of the 318 resale market? dont you think?

if you maybe looked for 318 tis, from other years BESIDES 95, you might have noticed that resale goes from 9k to about 20k

http://www.autotrader.com/findacar/vdetail.jtmpl?car_id=76167565&dealer_id=277090&cer tified=n&max_price=25000&start_year=1990&end_year= 2000&address=92614&search_type=used&make=BMW&model =318&min_price=&distance=any&advcd_on=n&advanced=n &car_year=1998&ac_afflt=none

http://www.autotrader.com/findacar/vdetail.jtmpl?car_id=77427393&dealer_id=1370718&ce rtified=n&max_price=25000&start_year=1990&end_year =2000&address=92614&search_type=used&make=BMW&mode l=318&min_price=&distance=any&advcd_on=n&advanced= n&sort_type=year&=&car_year=1998&ac_afflt=none

i bought a c230 cause i was ready to move up from my integra, and wanted something a little bit less bland then a 240 or a 3 series. I didnt buy it to get acceptance from the mercedes benz elite.

as far as the market proving the coupe has no place in america... well its a bit early to tell, but so far its generated a huge buzz, and has gotten a lot of people who wouldnt have even considered mercedes a player, into showrooms.

greg

Buddha

As stated here opinions differ and I must confess that mine is one of approval as I have one on order. A couple things I found at least a little misrepresented in the article lending me to question the effort put in to this. One is the statement that “the only way to get a CD player is in tandem with a pricey Motorola integrated cell phone that adds $1,800 or $2,200 to the freight.” indicated to me that he was unaware of the CD changer as a stand alone option. Also the statement “But scan the options list, and you'll find a loaded C230 can top $40,000.” I believe is a bit misleading, I have tried and can get it to just over 38 without adding in additional accessories. I also believe the way the options are offered it would be rare that someone would select them all. His other negative comments ranging from the power plant to the cup holder are features in other MB models as well. All in all it really looks as though this person went in with some degree of preconception and had to exert some effort in supporting it. I too would rather this car had the large V6 and some other features standard but I understand why Mercedes has done to get a more attractive entry lever auto in to the US market.

Pffelan

never seen a c230 on the back of a recovery truck.... seems like the jaguars come with one free judging by local roads in the uk....

plus they jag will be worth very little as a trade in...


critisie if you like but having lost 14k (pounds not dollars) in 1 year on an xkr i wouldnt have another.... especially as you spend half your time in an avis rental car whilst they put your jag back together.

SoCal240/6

Couldn't read your links, but I don't doubt that some ask higher. I just didn't see any in my 5 minute scan of the ads. They must not have sold many after '95, because most for sale seem to be '95s. Anyways, the Ti as a used car *in general* is a $8k to $10k car, not a $18k to $20k car!

Anyways, as you suggest, that wasn't my point anyways, my point is that the market dictated that the Ti be cancelled, because of lack of sales. I hope the Hatch is more successful.

I actually kinda like the C230. I went and looked at one, but didn't like (1) the cloth interior, (2) the 4 banger engine (3) the true hatchback styling (if only they could have made the back as sleek as the front! The 944 and 928 were also hatchbacks, but had rears that matched front) (4) the price! I typically don't get a lot of options, but on this car would need leather, wheels and roof at a minimum, and that starts to add up to a pretty expensive 4 cyl Hatch.

Finally, I think the marketing term "Coupe" is a little insulting. Umm, the CL, 635CSi, etc. are Coupes. While that term is liberally used these days, the C230 ain't nowhere near a Coupe, under even the most liberal interpretation of the word. I mean c'mon, they might as well have called it a Luxury Sedan!

I think it was a good, but risky move for MB, to try to get a lower aged market. I hope it pays off, and hope the car is successful, although given American attitudes towards Hatchbacks, I think the odds, long term, are stacked against it.

o2bsurreal

The article brings up all the items that pretty much all C230 owners (inluding myself) have calculated before buying. Although he didn't lie, and he makes well-founded, though already well-known points, his verocity leads me to believe that this author needs to take a chill pill. I mean really, this guy just needs to RELAX.

MarkL

I'm not sure how many people would consider both a C230 and a C240 as alternate purchases. I know I wouldn't. IMO, the buyers of these two cars are looking for two completely different vehicles. I have a C240 6-spd, and I would not have considered the C230, regardless of price. I don't begrudge anyone their purchase of a C230, but they are looking for a 2-door, sporty, inexpensive "coupe", and will accept the class-common attribute list including an unrefined feeling 4-cylinder engine. The C240 is a smaller version of the typical M-B luxury sedan with a smooth and quiet V6 and the option of a manual transmission. It is refined in all respects, including its standard interior, and of course, it has 4 doors. Two different vehicles for two distinctly different market segments.

Flashman

Actually, you describe what I'm buying. A C230 w/ sport wheels, panoramic sunroof, BOSE system, leather seats. The MSRP comes to $29,045. Still under $30K (the magic number that the under 40 market seems to be locked to). So, personally, I think Mercedes priced the car just right.

I don't understand the complaint on the cloth. Just try sitting in any american cloth car interior, which currently they are using that synthetic soft-to-touch but catches-on-everything cheap velour cloth. I have to sit in it every time I travel and have to rent a Ford-anything. The Mercedes cloth is a tight wove, very european, like BMW used to sell. It is miles above any american car cloth. Of course, if you only buy/sit in leather, then you might not notice that.

I also don't understand why so many reviewers are stuck of yelling "HATCHBACK HATCHBACK" like it means it won't sell here or it is not popular here. If hatchbacks don't sell in the US, what the heck has Honda been thinking selling all those 2-door Civic coupes, Acura coupes (like the RSX), etc. I don't see them calling them hatchbacks either. Then you have cars like the Corvette. I wonder why magazines aren't yelling at how GM dare sell a hatchback sportscar. There was the Mitsubishi 3000, the RX-7, well you get the point...

I happen to really like the shape of the C230, especially the rear. It is elegant, purposeful-looking, and sporty. It is nothing like the chop-job of a 318, and unlike the 318, does not have major compromises in suspension or performance. The 318 didn't sell mostly cause it looked like an 80's Chevette and lacked the performance of any other BMW 3xx series.

Rick

MarkL

IMO, it's the cloth pattern that I feel looks "sub-standard", not the material itself.

Buellwinkle

Here's some 98 318Ti Coupes for sale that are in the range I said. Don't laugh but that's what they go for. Sure, you can find one much cheaper but likely there is something wrong with it like super high mileage or it's a beater. The funny thing is that the much more expensive 4-door sells in the same price range. Did the 318Ti lower the values of the 4 door or did the 4-door elevate the value of the coupe? I think the coupe is more attractive to the type of person wanting a used car. It doesn't matter to me if MB is successfull or not with the coupe as long as I retain my value.

http://www.autotrader.com/findacar/v...&ac_afflt=none

http://www.autotrader.com/findacar/v...&ac_afflt=none

IrishinNE

Some problems with the Article:

$40,000? If I added Command, K2, and AMG wheels, and special order paint AND leather, the car I ordered might just top $40,000, but I doubt it.

He goes out of his way to say how much he likes the C-class but then knocks the C Coupe for things that are common with other members of C-class i.e., the cupholder, the interior, the transmission etc. So MB decided to go sporty and put the aluminum trim instead of wood.

He says he likes German cars. He then says the C Coupe feels cheap and compares it unfavorably to an Acura RSX. Gimme a break. The RSX is about as un-German as a car can get.

As far as being looked on as a wannabe. You could say the same for any C-class owner because they didn't get an E-class, or any E-class owner because they didn't get an S-class. Snobs will be snobs.

The talks about the BMW 318ti and pretty much predicts that the C Coupe will fail in the same way. One difference between the C Coupe and the 318ti that I think will prove to be important is this. MB does not make a 2-door C class other than the C Coupe (I hope this doesn't change). The 318ti always had to compete with the 3xxCi two-door coupe. Thus, the 318ti was stigmatized as a "cheap" bmw. The C Coupe is the only choice for a MB buyer in the C-class price range who wants something sporty with only two doors.

Buellwinkle

And the 318Ti didn't have a cool looking inexpensive convertible in it's line up. Hopefuly coming soon to a dealer near you.

MB-BOB

You've been reading this forum long enough to know that the convertible was just a styling exercise that has been cancelled. MBSPY says it'll never see the light of day. So, what-up with the tease, bro?

...And the Jaguar comparison? There have been loads of comments on the CLK forum bemoaning the possibility that a future CLK might be based on a Chrysler platform, or is that vice-versa? But then you put forward a Jaguar X, based (directly) on the Ford Mondeo? Like Lynn, I 've driven the X-type, and the S-type (nee, Lincoln LS), and I can't find anything remotely approaching the quality to the C240. I would consider a BMW 325i before I'd buy the Jaguar, and you all know how much I disdain antiquated Bimmer 3-series design.

I drove my C320 to the MB shop to test drive a C230K several weeks ago. Hopping out of my car and into the other, I'd have to say that I felt the solid rigidity of the C230 to be equivalent to my C320 in every respect. The ride was very slightly tighter than the standard suspension on my sedan, which I would have expected, and the 4-cyl. motor was noticeably louder, though not objectionable. Otherwise, I would call the two cars identical from the steering wheel forward, in looks and feel.

I mention all this, because the article says the down-market appeal from the C-Sedan to the C-Coupe clearly shows... and I disagree. I would feel right at home in the C230, especially when I need to bring a new 27" TV home from Best Buy.

I agree the aluminum console material looks "entry-level," (he said "cheap") rather than "sporty," and I would hope they'll offer Laurel wood as an option if I were to buy one, but that's just me. The 3.2L engine would be just the ticket, and the article mentions that as a possible future upgrade, so that's encouraging. But I think he's way off base with the $40K scenario. When last I dreamed of one with auto, C1, C5, C7 and CD changer, I recall it was no more than $33K. And most of you would live without the auto and memory seats (C1).

Someone has already made the correct observation (IMO) regarding the failure of the 318ti... that there existed a "real" two-door BMW in the same 3-series niche, hence one had to die. The Coupe has no such competition within the C-Class range, lest you hop (out of range) to the drop-top SLK (the reason for no Coupe cabrio) or the soon to be stellar price of the 2003 CLK. So, I think the Coupe will succeed where the ti did not. Maybe that's just a wish, but I AM on your side.

Buellwinkle

WHAT! NO CONVERTIBLE? Don't burst my bubble, I like the convertible and I'm getting it, I don't car how long it takes those people in Brazil to make one.

Lynn

For goggles, i just hopped over the the build your own feature on the Mercedes web site. I built a C230k with every possible option, special order paint, auto trans, C1, C4, C5, C7, COMAND with CD's, and Teleaid. The price is $39421.40. If I try to order leather, C2 and Bose, it deselects leather when I click on Bose, and vice versa. Could it be that the Bose system and leather are only available together in the C5 package?

Buellwinkle

Heck, a fully loaded C240 is $46,245 and a C320 is $49,115. I wonder if anyone bought one that loaded. The one that takes the cake is a fully loaded E320 is $70,235.

mbtech208

I have pity on the person that spends $70,000 on an E320. What is that? A 4Matic wagon with all the goodies? I've built an S-class on mbusa.com to almost $200,000. I think it was either an S600 or an S500 Guard.