how about a tricked out sleeper volvo 850 turbowagon that will keep pace with a c36 in the quarter and top out past 160 mph.

 

I am currently in the market for a new car, and I considered both the C230k and the 325i. While I think that the bimmer handled a little better, there are a number of reasons why I will likely get the Mercedes.

1) styling - I think that the MB's stand out and are better looking than the BMW's (why not just buy an Accord and put the BMW emblem on the hood, can you say UJC?)

2) everyone seems to have a BMW - might as well buy a mustang (not that there is anything wrong with that)

3) price - you get more for your money

4) it will be easier to modify the engine on the C230k (check out what you can get for $1000 through dinan; about 10hp)

5) the BMW salesman that I went to was an arrogant ****** (I hear that this is common).

I am sure that there are more, but that is all I can think of now

Next month - make mine a black c230k, C2, C7 6spd please!

 

Whatever floats your boat! Of course I would prefer a "debadged" C32 with a Renntech/Brabus performance package, that would blow by a vette in the quarter and top out at around 190mph lol

 

Now that's what I'm talking about Class with B@!!$

 

Wow what a long thread this has become... Kinda fun just reading it, so informative.

 

how much is a brabus/renntech package? i only put in a new ecu program (higher boost) and exhaust for my wagon myself, $1500. any more power and the connecting rods would fail hehe...

 

strangely enough... that is the one thing (other than country of origin) that the MB and BMW had in common... I've had horrible sales-experiences with each and I've had mind-blowing sales experiences with each... the first time I looked at the C230... great, the second time HORRID! when mymom bought her ML320 (different dealer) OUTSTANDING! I had a total of 3 bad and 2 good experiences with the BMWs... ]

the only people that constantly treat me nice (other than the Honda dealership my extended family is keeping in business) are the Acura dealers, 3 cities, 4 dealers, EXCELLENT service everywhere, for a (then) 21-year-old.

odd, you'd think that at least MB would figure that part out... BMW should as well considering their cars keep getting uglier each year... service before the sale is going to be their only chance before long.

 

Gee, das, that's quite a concession... there's hope for you, yet! (LOL)

 

 

Just curious, of all the $*@! talking goin on in here, how many of you actually ever owned a BMW?

(and I don't mean "My friend has one." You can't make a sound judgement by taking a few rides in a friend's car)

 

Acutally, I was kind of agreeing with you, even though I noted some exceptions. I did notice that a lot of "younger" hand-workers had BMWs (although most of these cars were a few years old). I am proud to say that I was the owner of a 76 MB until about the last two years. I am embarrassed to say that my wife and I had a Ford Fiesta (one car for the two of us ) during this time.

btw - What is a Simca??

 

oh, you don't want to know. Some awful little French car - later actually became part of the "Diamond"-brand, Chrysler. It was followed by the Chrysler-Simca Horizon. Then they rolled over and died.
The Peugeots always have been a lot of fun. Their 1.9L Diesel in the 205 hatchback was a little wildcat. Scared a lot of people out of the left lane on the Autobahn Hof-Heidelberg...
Yep - BMWs always were the aspiration of Handwerkers. If you do well you can actually afford one. I drove a 316 in '89, part of my boss' leased fleet. He drove a 323 touring, and his wife got the drop-top. Even the 1.6 was fun. Still love the box-look - it's a classic.
But let's not talk about Simcas and Fiestas - don't need that to appreciate what we're driving now, do we?

 

Horse from West Point??

 

I imagine the same question applies for Mercedes-Benzes, too. "How many of you actually ever owned a M-B?" So, I'm not sure I get your point.

If you're suggesting that once you've owned a BMW, you'll understand why they are so good, then I would contend the same applies to a Mercedes-Benz... or an Acura... or a Toyota... etc.

In the end, a car purchase comes down to what you like, how you feel about it and what you're willing to spend, not any myth or legend spread by others. IMO, if you buy a car based on hype by others, you buy a car for the wrong reason.

 

Boo2,

my mother drove a 6-series ALPINA (new) back in the 80's, uncle drove a (new) 750iL in '92 and traded in on a new 740iL back in '97. My mother's sister drove (new) 528i about two weeks old when she ran it head on into a tree and totalled the car. I've driven them all and they sound nice and handle real well, but it quite doesn't pop my bubble.

 

I can relate, I started with a 325i, moved up to a 6 speed Dinan 540i, and last month traded it in for the Benz. My mom has been driving an S Class for as long as I can remember (from 560 SEL to a current S500). My dad drives an XKR and a 360. All i'm trying to say, is that i've driven many types of quality cars, and it doesn't make sense to trash talk on 2 very good car companies. Both have their strengths and weaknesses, and both could learn alot from each other. BMW can take some cues from MB's luxury conveniences, and MB can learn how to build a quality handling MANUAL engine vehicle. You can't expect BMW to match MB in luxury/convenience in just one year; in the same respects you can't expect MB to build a manual engine car to the same level as BMW (who has been building them for decades). Like someone said earlier, Apples-to-Oranges!!!

 

FYI: MB has been building cars with manual transmissions for as long as just about any car company in existence. They just don't bring many of them over to the USA (home of the worlds largest pool of lazy, overly-monied "drivers").

 

mapman, I agree, remember that the Europeans built manuals were the automatics were more preferred and made by Americans. And BMW is a younger company than Mercedes-Benz. I would say that one of the best Mercedes that we had was a '85 500 SL AMG. We now have a '2001 MB 500SL and an order for a '03 MB 500SL. And BMW's seem not to weather well, after only 2 to 3 years they look as if they are 5 or 6 years old. I'm not trashing a Company, i'm just simply replying to the initiated Post that the person who picked the 325 over the MB said that 325 is a real machine-putting down Mercedes-Benz when in reality why trash a Company like Mercedes-Benz over a decision to buy the low end of a BMW a 325i.

PS-My Mother's '89 260E looks like new after 13 years that we bought it-you can't even feel a vibration and the body is as solid as the day it was delivered to my mom-That's what I call a GREAT CAR!!!!!

 

bob, I have NEVER been easy on the screw-job back end on the new 7... I just hope the new 5 is palatable... I hate seeing UGLY cars on the road, regardless of manufacture.

and that "envy, lust...." thing is just mean man.

and speaking of hope... my father-in-law wants a 7-series (he likes the E38s a lot, but hasn't seen a new E65 yet) I gotta figure out how to get him to look at a S430... the "$70,000 barrier" seems to be an issue for him, so it won't be easy.

I couldn't park my sexy little Z3 next that heinous beast E65 whenever I went over there... I just couldn't do it.

so... (and I know this is WAYYYYY off-topic for the C-class board), what really distinguishes the S-class from the 7-series in terms meaningful to a non-car-guy. (other than it being attractive and the 7 being Fugly)

 

to bring an end to this controversy, as a BMW owner (only 33 more payments to go), I can honestly say that I have yet to drive/experience a BMW that holds a candle to the tank-like structure and solidity of most Benzes, even my moms ML320 it a freaking vault (although the windshield sqeaks like a [fill in a metaphor, I'm lost on this one]).

Simply put, the emphasis at BMW is not on building the longest-lasting, safest, sturdiest cars on the road. Its about building cars that excite people and include them in the driving experience.

These two mission statements are mutually exclusive. one cannot exist with the other. that is why their will always be a great riff between the BMW and MB owners, it is simply a matter of piority. If I was to buy a car to be "driven in" I'd get a LWB benz... If I was driving someone else, I'd get an M coupe and tell them to hold on for the ride of their life.

BMWs refusal to sacrifice performance for safety or longevity (although their straight-sixes have reputations on line with the best of the MB engines) will forever shape them as a company that sacrifices things for speed... simply installing an MB-grade interior in a 3-series would add a few hundred pounds to the tally, noticably slowing the car, and installing a BMW suspension and steering would transmit unacceptable levels of vibration and suspension shock to the cabin.

as becomes increasingly clear as this discourse continues, it is impossible for BMW to "build a better benz" and impossible for MB to "build a better bimmer"

2 other thoughts. BMWs are marketed to a younger crowd (successfuly) partially due to their driving dynamics and lower prices. this will result in increased wear-rates for the cars and (compounded by the one-step-down interior materials) create less-attractive used examples. second, MBs (due to a zillion pretty obvious factors) typically belong to older, more relaxed, more appreciative people, who not only care for their cars as an asset (albeit a depreciating one) and something to take pleasure in. this results in less hard-driving, better vehicle care, and increased vehicle longevity. its like comparing a Honda/toyota driver to a chevy/ford driver... the import owner spent a little more because he wanted the best he could buy, and he cares for the investment. the domestic owner bought a car... and an american car (for whatever reason), and its a car to them, disposable, unexciting, inexpensive.

this is a bit of an oversimplification. in the end, both companies build some of the best cars in the world. the real question is how is audi going to effect all of this???

 

This is exactly the reason why Mercedes came out with the C230 coupe!!!

 

Wow this thead gets longer and longer.... Honestly I like BMW's but my personal favorite is a Merc. I had a BMW and when I had it I loved it. Then I got my first benz. My friends have M3's and I still drive them but when I drive my car it just brings a nice smile to my face. Maybe its just me. I like my car a lot.

 

I agree with everyone..as a mb owner...u can't compare a c230 hatch to a freakin 325i...its...how about bringing out the hideous 318ti..thats more of a comparison..and besides...mb is all about class, elegance, there is a reason why important political figures including the rich and famous all choose one specific brand in their car collection..a MERCEDES BENZ....not a freakin bimmer...once a mb owner, always a mb owner!

 

I have to disagree with this part of your statement... the rich-and-famous drive benzes because they are more expensive and flashier... big chrome monoblocks, that star on the grill, all that status and the ability to say that you drive a $160,000 S500 Protection or a 145,000 designo S600 or a good-lord $$$$ CL55 AMG. those are about showing how much money you have and how much status YOU think you should command in society. now, what about rap-stars who drive customized MBs with 22-inch cromies and a 6-inch drop with their systems... do they give a rip about whats "prestigious" hell no! they want to show off how much money they have... PERIOD! its about being "flossin" and "bling-bling"

the 325 is a competitor to the C230 in price only, totally different cars for totally different people... very few people have a hard time choosing which one they like. you were dead on there.

P.S. I edited out the political figures part because it is an obvious show of power and longevity and the ability to survive... totally different from the movie-stars.

 

I know that I'm going to catch heat for this, but doesn't BMW stand for Bowel Movement & Wipe?

Just kidding