tsberkey

Sounds like even a novice like me can handle that!

webbersworld

so I visited Circuit City tonight... basically the guy was like dont be stupid change your headunit.. when I made it clear to him that I wont change it, he said I shouldnt do anything then. He said that he is unable to put an amp in because there is no rca unit (or something to that extent), and he said speakers alone would be a waste of money... I'm so confused!!!!


BEN

Harris

Well, he is half right. I already said changing one thing or the other will not get you anywhere, you HAVE to change the speakers AS WELL AS adding an amp. Trust me on this! But I bet the salesman does not have any experience with MBs, as I've mentioned on earlier posts, you CAN add an amp to the stock non-Bose HU. And I bet Circuit City is not the right place for you to go. See if you can find a decent stereo shop and ask the real "professionals" there. Or just tell us your budget and let people in here to give you some suggestions on what to buy.

webbersworld

I'd like to spend like 500-600 dollars on this whole thing.

Is this budget enough to get me some great sound or not really?

If 600 dollars isnt enough maybe I will wait a month or so and save up a bit.

The man at Circuit City said if I really want to get speakers then he recommends Infinity. But I would still love to know what you all think I should get- trust me- I'll take your word over the circuit city guy ANY DAY!



Ben

peet

"I'm going to Circuit City tonight, any suggestions?"

- yea -

One big one.

RUN LIKE HELL away from the mass merchandisers before they lift a single screwdriver! (they should be using panel removal tools instead )

1) good quality audio gear (a la a/d/s, dynaudio, Alpine F1, Sony Mobile ES) will not be found in these places for good reason. They don't know what they're doing (for the most part).

2) would you trust a part time kid to shred your benz?

3) if you look for an install shop, interview the installer (they expect this). Ask to see previous installs (they all keep pictures, if not, leave).

Trust me, you'll value this relationship when all the dust settles.

For example, lets say you buy speakers 'a' and amp 'b'. Then it turns out that amp 'b' puts out a bright sound and you don't like it. CC will tell you - ok it's in 30 day exchange, pick another - and so you go, exchange it, pay the installer and so on. With a good shop, the sales folks or the installer will know the 'color/feel' of the sound, they'll know that although the benz is fiber to control the gear, it's really copper that runs signals, they'll know stuff like - power runs up and down the right side of the car so run the signal on the left.

Anyhow, I hope these hi brow audio words of wisdom pay off and not come off as audio snobbery. I just hate to see folks dump a couple of grand into a car and not get the best thing they could have ended with. But, No matter what you end up doing, have fun and enjoy it. If you're not enjoying yourself - you're doing it wrong!

BTW, my last car, E36 M3, had about $14k of audio in it. dual a/d/s 312RS subs in a custom box that contoured the back of the seat. Two huge amps with a total of 12 channels. Each speaker (except subs) had it's own signal path (those were bridged for over 500watts each in a push-pull config). Tweets and low mids were a/d/s and mids were dynaudio. Signal fed from Sony Mobile ES C90 HU through fiber to a Sony MES XDP 4000 EQ. This eq/dsp time shifted the signal for each element in the system so that sound arrived at the driver head position at exactly the same time. I used an installer to help desgin, plan and build the initial parts, and the remaining 50% did on the cheap through ebay, saving and weekend garage tinkering. Moral is, the installer in the beginning helped a great deal. Because of this up front planning and careful installation of the major components, this entire toyshop looked totally stock (except for the blue backlit head in an orange backlit dashboard )

*side note, now you all know why I hate the bose stuff so much

Peet

Harris

I'll let others recommend you on the mainstream brands such as Alpine, Pioneer, Eclipse....

My suggestion is: get a pair of Focal Access 165A 2-way separate speakers, along with an Audison SRx 2 amplifier (SRx 4 if you want to add a sub). They should give you a nice improvement within your budget range. You can get the specs from: http://www.audison.com and http://www.focal-fr.com/gb/car/accessline/165a.htm

Let me emphasize that this is only an entry level upgrade that fits your budget. You can build a 20K system anytime!

KompMan420

This is what I recommend for whatever it's worth.

Get the Alpine MRV-F450 amp to run all your speakers. It's a 5 channel that runs 50w x 4 (50 watts of power times 4 channels - front two & rear two - you can tie in the tweeters to the front two) and 200w x 1 for a sub.
Detailed specs:
- 50 watts RMS x 4 + 200 watts RMS x 1 at 4 ohms OR
- 60 watts RMS x 4 at 2 ohms + 200 watts RMS x 1 at 4 ohms OR
- 120 watts RMS x 2 + 200 watts RMS x 1 in bridged mode
- 2-, 3-, 4-, or 5-channel output
- Tri-Way capable
- requires 8-gauge power and ground leads — wiring and hardware not included with amplifier
Bass Engine® features:
front and rear channels have variable 50-200 Hz high-pass/low- pass crossovers, 12 dB/octave
sub channel has a 30-200 Hz low-pass crossover, 12 dB/octave
selectable (15 Hz or 30 Hz) subsonic filter on the sub channel
tuned Bass EQ (6 dB bass boost at 50 Hz with adjustable Q factor, while frequencies below 30 Hz are cut by 6 dB) on the sub channel
- MOSFET power supply
- STAR Topology (minimizes internal noise and prevents ground interference)
- oversized power and ground connections
- gold-plated screw terminals
- top-mounted controls with cover
- detachable front cover
- blue power LED
- 16-9/16"W x 2-1/2"H x 11-1/4"D (depth is 10" with front cover removed)
- 1-year warranty

Now as for a sub. Get the Alpine SBS-1041BP Type-S 10" single bandpass subwoofer enclosure. This is almost the exact thing I've got in my car and when I turn it all the way up it'll shake the car (I have more power running mine though).
Detailed specs:
- bandpass enclosure (This design will give you more efficient use of power)
10" Type-S subwoofer (Kevlar®-reinforced pulp cone with Santoprene rubber surround)
- frequency response 35-1,000 Hz
- recommended power range 50-200 watts RMS
- peak power handling 600 watts
- sensitivity 87 dB
- 4-ohm impedance
- 24-5/8"W x 13"H x 13"D
- 1-year warranty

If you go to a reputable shop that sells Alpine you should have no problem getting all this for about what you're looking to spend. With installation you'll probably be a little over, but trust me when I say you will NOT be disappointed. I went to a website that is always overpriced and found the sub for $199 and the amp for $499. A good shop will have the amp for probably around $400-$450 and most shops can build the same box/sub for around $150. If you work it a little you can probably get installation at a cheap price. Just make sure you get the volume leveler adjusted/turned off in the DAS. Once this is all done, drive it around for a while and see how you like it. If you're still not totally satisfied move to the next step. Doing things in stages is going to give you exactly what you want without spending money you don't have to. If you turn the volume up as loud as you will want it and you start to hear any distortion from your speakers, get new ones. It's not necessary to go out and get Infinity. They are one of the best, but if you're not going all out, it's a waste. I do recommend getting a nicer head unit, but I understand the desire to keep the stock look.

Hope this clears the confusion a little.

peet

Good call on the Focals.

I saw your budget post after I put up my long-a$$ diatribe sorry... but for around 600 you should definately be able to get good front speakers with crossovers and a small amp. Then as time goes on if you want more go for it - it IS addictive

I do stick by my guns though, especially if you're going to go piecemeal. Find a good small stereo shop that can recommend a road map. Even if you don't follow it with them after the fact, you'll have a good idea of what to do on your own later.

Have fun!
P

CRB

The guy at Circuit City is telling you the same thing that quite a few people told you at the begining of this thread (and what an honest high-end audio dealer would too) The speakers are the final link in a chain of audio components.

Early on someone mentioned signal to noise (S/N) ratio. Your stock headunit is a preamplifier too. Moreover, it has a very cheap and noisy preamp in it. Thiss preamp serves your power amp a large dose of noise along with your music of choice. This is fact and no tinkering with the signal after the headunit will change this.

When the Circuit City guy was talking about those "RCA thingies" you should have been listening, because you aren't going to get "great" sound out of that stock headunit. Period. End of story.

Now, if you will settle for "pretty darn good" and "much better" sound then take the upgrade path previously mentioned by Harris. That aftermarket amp will deliver some serious clean power and those Focal speakers will reproduce with great fidelity all that noise the preamp circuitry in headunit introduced to the chain.


Bottom line: One can go a long way toward making the sound "better", but don't mislead yourself into thinking that a stock headunit has any place in a great audio chain.

KompMan420

Well put!

webbersworld

Harris-

If I go to an audio store, and I give him the name of the amplifier and speakers, he could definitely order them for me?

-Ben

Harris

The brands that I've given you are high end names, an average audio shop does not carry those brands. Search through their distributor's list and see if you can find a place near you that carries them. If you can't find any, I can get them for you locally and ship them to you. However, I wouldn't want to do that because it will be definitely be more expensive after shipping and taxes etc....

tsberkey

I took the advice of several of you and stayed away from the mass-merchandisers. One of the places I went to today had some really nice sounding eclipse 6.5's with an eclipse 400W-4 channel amp driving them. What do you think of Eclipse? I know it wasn't in your higher-end list of products, but I (like webbersworld) have a limited budget and really want something just a bit cleaner than the stock unit.

Your thoughts???

Thanx.

Tim

KompMan420

I mentioned Eclipse before. They are really nice speakers for a fairly inexpensive price. I'm not sure on their amps though. They also make good HU. My brother had an Eclipse HU and speakers in his BMW for a while and they sounded awesome. If you like them and they are in your budget, go for it. You won't be disappointed.

Harris

Sorry guys, I think this thread will soon be moved to the Audio forum. :p

Well, Eclipse makes better HU than speakers and amp (Eclipse is actually "Fujitsu"). Their speakers and amp are .... I dont like to suggest people to get mainstream brands on speakers and amp because companies like Focal (or MB Quart) and Audison (or PPI) only make speakers and amplifiers. When they only specialize in doing one thing, the R&D will be done better, the quality will also be better. I think the models that I recommend shall fit within a tight budget, I am not exactly sure how much they will cost in the US.

However, if you really want to buy those "mainstream" brands on speakers and amps, Alpine and Pinoeer will be the better ones.

tsberkey

Thanks, KompMan. I appreciate the input.

Tim

tsberkey

Actually, I am amazed at how many audio threads are in the W203 forum!!! I will keep searching for the brands you recommend, but you gotta realize, I live in Battle Creek. I won't say it's a small town, but when you are known throughout the world for CORN Flakes...:p :p :p

Tim

Harris

So does CORN FLAKES from Battle Creek any "fresher" than the ones we bought from the supermarket? Can you send me a box and try it out? Haha! :p

Like I've mentioned before, if you cant find it, let me know, I will be glad to HELP out. Maybe try the closest big city (I'm sorry, I dont have an idea of where exactly Battle Creek is on the map). And FYI, I dont make any profit out of it.

caraudio_nutt

i used to install in w203's all the time, i have had many customers that kept their stock HU, most usually do just a regular 4-6 channel amp plus speakers, i can tell you with a nice preamp setup, you can get good but not great (there is a sacrifice with stock HU's) sound quality, it just all depends on the installer, 80% of my customers were happy with their setup, the other 20% changed their head unit within 6 months later, a lot of people here in so cali like to keep their stock HU's due to a high amount of friggin thugs that break into cars these days, i have had my current car vandalized about 4 times already (darn haters!!!) my system was never stolen but a window does take some cash to replace, ok i will stop babbling, if you need any suggestions on hesitate to ask me, i'll tell you some of my customer's setups

webbersworld

So I e-mailed the one Audison distributor in the U.S. (in California) with the e-mail that the website gave. The e-mail address was invalid.. Any other ideas of how I can get these besides from you in Canada? I prefer to stay away from the extra taxes and what not. If getting them from you is my only option, I may just have to do that. Hopefully this amplifier and the Focals are worth it, I trust you.


Thanks,
Ben

Harris

I was reading your message and all along I was okay UNTIL I read "....I trust you.". Wow....you're giving me tremendous amount of pressure!! I would say the stuff that I recommended you to get should be better than any top models of the mainstream brands. Or another way to phrase it: those are entry level products in the "advanced" audio category.

I just made a couple of phone calls and I was told the Audison distributor has been closed down. Focal NA is taking over the Audison distribution and they are in the process of setting up distribution channels. Thats why you cant find shops carrying Audison products. I will be glad to help out if you want. You dont have to pay any Canadian taxes, only shipping & US taxes (if there is any). Shoot me an e-mail anytime if you want pricing and other info.

dragon

Now that I have changed to Alpine CVA-1004 Cd Changer, realised the clarity of my CD through the OEM speakers. It seems to me that it did not sound as expected with this combination.installed it for about a week and trying to research what will be the best. If I am not wrong it is the head unit(Alpine) that is not pushing enough power to the speakers that I need to turn the knob to "8" for CD and "15-18" for Radio station before I could really get half of what is expected. In my opinion, with the HU changed,an amps to boost the mids/high then bass will be missing. Concluded that the best is to get an amps that can operate 4/3/2 ways and see if the stock speakers sound any better. Once amps installed then we could really hear the potential of the stock speakers. Anyway all we need is to power the front speakers and add 10" sub at the rear and it will be perfect.In my opinion, the rear speakers L/R are mono and it is sucks. Need sub to replace these ******* as it only "Farts"
Dragon Baccarat System

TPL230

I have an '03 C230 with CD changer/without BOSE. I wanted to upgrade sound without losing the stock look or sacrificing cargo space to a sub. Also stayed away from Audio 10 because I didn't want to lose any AM stations.

Most car stereo places won't touch this setup because of the wiring, but I took it to a local guy who works on lots of Benzes. He put in an ARC Audio amp and Rainbow speakers, which improved the sound by an order of magnitude. BTW I prefer the sound of the Rainbows to the Quarts in my last car (Audi A4) -- I found the Quarts to be harsher.

tsberkey

Hey, TPL. You sound like me! You give exactly the same reasons that I have for not replacing the HU. Can you give me an idea of what you paid for the work and where you live???

Thanx.

Tim

TPL230

Hi Tim,

I live in Northern CA. I think I paid around $1000 -- $1200. I could have paid less with different components. The Quarts would have been cheaper, as would a different amp.

BTW I posted to his forum last year to ask about upgrading without swapping out the HU -- I was told I would get nowhere if I didn't replace the HU, or at least get the Audio 10. I also got slammed because the sound system in my other car (BMW Hardon Kardon) sounded good enough to me that I would have been happy to replicate that level of quality in the C230K if possible. I still the the HK system sounds fine, and I personally think nearly anything is an improvement over the stock MB sound system.

I did go out of my way to get a model *without* BOSE, as once you do it's harder to make any headway as far as upgrades go.

I am happy with the results I got for the money spent -- though many people on this forum wouldn't be. Good luck with your decision!