tifosiv122

I contacted that Vath company (www.vaeth.com) about their kit for the 1.8l Kompressor engine.

They sent me this reply:

They know the car has 189hp stock, so I assume this will be total hp after the mod....

Erik

jpb5151

Thanks for posting this. How much does the low-end torque improve?

amdeutsch

WOW

1750 - 2450 EUR for 6 - 16 hp upgrade. Plus shipping/handling and install.

Someone's must have money burning a hole in their pocket.

Plus I wonder if that email is talking about DIN or SAE HP.


Edit:
Just looked at their site. I think they are referring to the C180K engine version in your posted email. They may not have understood you correctly.

jpb5151

amdeutsch, if they knew it had 189 stock hp, they probably got the engines right (i don't know the different engines, thought all the 1.8's were the same?).

You're probably right, though: Maybe I should just save up for a V8 Benz in 4 years instead of grabbing for ~15 hp now. Guy in the lab and I were just talking about this.

amdeutsch

jpb5151

I'm not sure that they knew what Model he was talking about. I'm sure they know that in the C230 the engine produces 189 hp SAE and is a 1.8L. But their email response is tailored to the C180K and its engine.
Or if they knew then there was a disconnect on their email and they should have provided the info for the V23K kit.

tifosiv122

My e-mail stated that I had:

2003 C230 Kompressor Sports Coupe (US model) with the 189hp 1.8l S/C Engine (m271)....

I couldn't be more detailed then that.

Erik

amdeutsch

Erik, I'm not faulting you. All I'm saying is that there is a misunderstanding based on the email response you posted. I mean, who would spend that kinda money for such a minimal gain.

Here is what their site says on the V18K

C 180 Kompressor

Kompressorkit V18k
pulley kit V18k

Hubraum / Displacement: unverändert / series
Leistung / Power: 143 kW = 195 PS (mit LLK/with intercooler: 205 PS)
Drehmoment / Torque: 300 Nm / 2.800 U/min / rpm (mit LLK/with intercooler: 300 Nm)
Höchstgeschwindigkeit / Vmax: 238 km/h
Kraftstoffart / Fuel: Super Plus (98 Oktan)
Abgasnorm / Gas Test: unverändert wie Serie / unchanged to series

- Mit TÜV - with TÜV (German Technical Supervisory Association)

Ladeluftkühler / Intercooler

Großer Ladeluftkühler aus hochwertigem Aluminium (DIN-Netze) sorgt für kühlere Luftzufuhr, höheren Sauerstoffgehalt der Ansaugluft und somit für wesentlich bessere Verbrennung.
Nebeneffekt: Leistungszuwachs um ca. 5-8%
Montagezeit: ca. 1-2 Stunden
Bigger incooler made of high-quality aluminium (DIN). The intake air will be cooler, consiting of a higher oxygen content. A much better bustion will be the result. As a secondary phenomenon the power encreases by 5-8%. The installation will take 2-3 hours


and here is what it says on the V23K

C 230 Kompressor - V23k

Hubraum / Displacement: unverändert wie Serie / unchanged to series
Leistung / Power: 166 kW = 228 PS (Basis 197 PS)
Drehmoment / Torque: 320 Nm / 2.800 U/min / rpm
Beschleunigung / Acc. 0-100 km/h: 6,7 sec (Automat.)
Höchstgeschwindigkeit / Vmax: 242 km/h
Kraftstoffart / Fuel: Super Plus (98 Oktan)
Abgasnorm / Gas Test: unverändert wie Serie / unchanged to series
Der V23k bietet erheblich mehr Potential für souveränes und sportliches Fahren. Die Feinabstimung unseres Tuningkits ist so ausgelegt, daß die Leistung beim Beschleunigen über den gesamten Drehzahlbereich kontinuierlich anliegt und kein Lastschlag beim Verzögern entsteht. Durch die hohe Durchzugskraft beim Beschleunigen, Überholen und bei Bergfahrten erhalten Sie mehr Fahrdynamik durch gleichmäßige Kraftentfaltung. Die Abregeldrehzahl des Motors wird nicht verändert. Die Antiklopfregelung arbeitet und regelt wie in der Serie. Die Abgasnorm des Basisfahrzeugs bleibt erhalten.
- Mit TÜV
Our Pulley-Kit V23k gives your C 230 Kompressor much more torque. You will get an improved acceleration. By increasing the charge pressure together with our electronic update your car runs easily upstream 180 km/h towards the 240 km/h. The V23k gets its maximum torque from early 2.800 rpm until 5.600 rpm where your engine will have its maximum power of great 212 hp. The complete bustion guarantees the same exhaust emission standard as before engine tuning.
- with TÜV (German Technical Supervisory Association)

Just my $0.02 trying to help out.

tifosiv122

I am not getting it either way...I did the conversion, it's nuts, but I tried to be as specific as possible...I do think its for the 1.8 engine even with those minimal gains.

Erik

amdeutsch

That's right. What they gave you is for the 1.8L engine.
But, relooking at their site and reading some of the German articles it is obvious to me that a misunderstanding has occured. They answered you based on the C180 and not the C230. It appears that they have not updated their stuff for MY03 or otherwise you would see more options and differentiation because of the MY engine changes.
In addition their site leaves me wondering about their knowledge of English. The English translations seem to be have been done by someone who is not in command of the language or by some translation program (we have seen this on MBWorld numerous times). That is a surprise to me as most people in business over there have at the very least someone with a better command of the language than displayed on their site.

Lynn

My opinion is that the info provided by Vaeth is for the old M111 1.8 liter engine. And that info is DIN hp. 1 DIN hp = 0.986 SAE hp.

Also keep in mind that a kit for a M271 C180k would have to be different than a kit for an M271 C230k. While both are 1.8 liter engines, the C180k has a higher compression ratio. Use of a kit intended for the C180k on a C230k might cause exessive combustion pressure and detonation.

jpb5151

That's enough for me. Time to start saving for that V8. Thanks, Lynn.

tifosiv122

Whats the stock hp of the m271 c180k?

Erik

amdeutsch

Here is what the German MB website shows

Motordaten und Fahrleistungen


Anzahl / Anordnung Zylinder 4


Anzahl Ventile 4


Hubraum in cm3 1796



Verdichtung 10,6:1


Nennleistung in kW* (PS) 105 (143)


Nennleistung bei U/min* 5200


Nenndrehmoment in Nm* 220


Nenndrehmoment bei U/min* 2500-4200


Kraftstoffverbrauch in l/100 km /
CO2 in g/km**


Schaltgetriebe
innerorts 12,1
außerorts 6,3
gesamt 8,4
CO2 202

Automatikgetriebe
innerorts 12,4
außerorts 6,1
gesamt 8,4
CO2 202


Beschleunigung 0 - 100 km/h [s]
Schaltgetriebe 9,7
Automatikgetriebe 9,9


Höchstgeschwindigkeit in km/h
Schaltgetriebe 223
Automatikgetriebe 220


cw-Mittelwert 0,29

* Nach Richtlinie 80/1269/EWG in der Fassung
1999/99/EG.
** Nach Richtlinie 80/1268/EWG in der Fassung
1999/100/EG.

Lynn

143 DIN hp or 141 SAE hp

Considering that the C180k has a 10.6:1 compression ratio, it is unlikey that a boost kit is going to get it up to 195 hp. That is one reason I think the Vaeth kit is for the old M111 180k.

tifosiv122

Which is how much HP stock?

Erik

trench

Just to confuse the issue further...

There wasn't a 1.8L version of the M111 with a supercharger.

There were two models of M111 that were called C180s. The only one that actually displaced 1.8L was in early W202 C180s, this motor was the 1.8L M111 E18, which produced 122 DIN hp. Later W202s and the W203 C180s used the 2.0L M111 E20 motor, which was normally aspirated and produced 129 DIN hp. The W203 C200K used the 2.0L M111 E20ML motor, which added a supercharger to the 2.0L motor, boosting power to 163 DIN hp.

Regards, BT

tifosiv122

Now I am really confused.

Erik

20FHK02

Thanks for the confusion guys, you are doing a great job!

Anyway, there is a pulley for the M111 C230K sitting on my desk waiting to be installed tonight!

tifosiv122

Yeah, but we all knew that existed....lol

Erik

Lynn

I really thought there was a M111 180k sold in Europe. Sorry.

tifosiv122

So now I am very confused...

Is there only one 1.8l Kompressor engine?
If so, is those #'s on top (kits and price) correct?

Erik

amdeutsch

Erik

MB uses the 1.8L in 3 different configurations: C180, C200 & C230. The engine is tuned differently in each application as well as different boost on the supercharger where applicable. Sorry but I'm too lazy to go to the German website to get more detailed info. I'll leave that up to somebody else.

tifosiv122

Yes, that I understand, except now I am asking if the 180 ever came in S/C config or is the M271 1.8l the first 1.8 that has a Kompressor? If it is, then the tuning kit above would fit fine...

Erik

amdeutsch

Erik

I don't think so. Please see again what I posted. The V18K kit gives you a 5-8% gain with pulley, electronics and higher octane gas all for the unbelievable price of over $2000+.

It would be best if you can find someone that speaks German in your circle of friends and have them compose an email to them with more specifics. Otherwise I doubt that you will be able to get the answer your appearently are seeking.

No flame. Just my $0.02.

trench

I beleive amdeutsch to be correct. The V18K pulley kit appears be for the M271 and yields 6 hp (assuming that they're not talking DIN horsepower then there is only a 3 hp increase over the stock 192 DIN). I am surprised that they are claiming an additional 10 hp to be gained from an intercooler swap. This seems to go against most of the intercooler dynos I've seen done on these forums - where changing the intercooler didn't really produce much extra power, just prevented the loss of power that occurs when the stock intercooler becomes heat-soaked. (I suppose it's possible that the stock intercooler doesn't work as well with the M271 - remember that apparantly this part hasn't changed even thought the M271 runs higher boost stock.)

My guess is that the V23K kit is for the 2.3L M111 as the base power there ("Basis 197 PS") is the DIN value for the old motor, plus the gains claimed there are consistent with what we've seen around here for a pulley swap.

- BT