Vince

I don't know if all you guys know but i was having some issues with my coupe. It was losing oil and various other things(search the forum). Anyways with the help of my lawyer Bill McGee California Lemon Law Lawyers i got my money back. I feel like a larry h parker commercial right now. except it's not $1.2 million. I drove my car for 17 months 33000 miles and only lost $5,083 for it. that's not bad. The car was pretty fun just not quite enough for me. Moving on I'm thinking of an S2000.

galaxygrrl

Well that's great! It's nice to know we have strong consumer protection laws when they are needed. It's too bad we did not get one of the MBs that work.

Enjoy the s2000! Though I think my Saab is a better choice. :p

Beth

Buellwinkle

That settlement sounds fair. My lemon law settlement on my W201 was about $4,000, the car had about 35K miles and some body damage, of course cars cost less back then. Good luck with the Honda, my next car will be a convertible also.

jpb5151

Glad to read you've got your $$$ back, sorry to read about your MB though.

Did you look into one of the rear-wheel-drive Lexus cars?

codex57

An IS300 is a good possible replacement. How about a G35 coupe? I imagine you'll want to stick w/ the Japanese companies since they're better odds for problem free driving.

jpb5151

IS300... I remember a thread in Kill Stories about a guy who modded his to put out some ungodly amount of horsepower. That'd be fun.

Mike T.

But I thought I'd point out that for the same cash settlement as you got, I was able to drive my 405 for seven years before it cost me as much as your C 230 did in depreciation over your 1.5 years of ownership.

To look at it another way, I'm not sure that M-B was really penalised for supplying that lemon that you had. After all, you paid the equivalent of about $425-450 CDN per month for it, when the same car leases in Canada for $399 per month. It seems to me that they should have been assessed for punitive damages for supplying a faulty product. Maybe your lemon laws don't go that far, but they should. Think about the hassles you've gone through just getting to this point.

If you are satisfied, that's good enough for me!

Buellwinkle

Actually if a lemon law case goes to trial in CA you can be awarded a maximum of twice the cost of the car (including sales tax and fees) plus legal fees. In my case that went to trial with Infiniti (leased), I got the annual registration fee + all lease payments + sales tax for the 11 months I've owned it. They do subtract the miles driven counting from the first time you encountered the problem, in my case that came out to just under $800. So for $800 total, I got to drive a new Infiniti with faulty A/C for almost a year, not too shabby. What's more important is a) they are stuck with a lemon titled car that I didn't exactly baby known it was going back, b) I made them eat crow.

neptunespeed

Congrats Vince. Good to know the lemon laws are working for us. S2000 are damn nice. Good luck on your search.

ffejalink

Good luck with whatever you get. Are you completely turned away from MB vehicles now?

lig

If you like to get involved in your driving - you'll LOVE the S2000. I'm going to auto-x tomorrow. Here's a pic from a track day...

I have an '03 E320 for a daily driver. Already has had a couple of minor hiccups. The S2000 has been flawless.

Good luck on whatever you choose!

c2jones

While MB leads in innovation (thus experimental technologies), its Japanese counterparts stick to quality control much better.

Time after time, year after year, the results suggest as much...

Jim Banville

Tell me if I'm reading that chart correctly... for every one problem in a Lexus, you'd have two in a MB (since the MB number is almost exactly double that of Lexus)?

ffejalink

Either way you look at it (number of cars or number of problems) MB is almost double Lexus in that survey.

Jim Banville

What other way would you look at it? (1) MB's have twice as many problems as Lexus's [if a MB has 2 problems, a Lexus has 1], (2) Lexus has half as many problems as MB [if a Lexus has 1 problem, a MB has 2].

Well, either way, I'd rather have any MB with 2 problems than most of the comparable Lexus's with only 1 problem (GS and LS lines excluded!).

Someone please tell me if I'm reading that chart wrong!

c2jones

You're not reading that chart wrong, if you mean as it pertains to the truth of the matter.

MB (as well as some other German/European makes) have been caught up in developing breakthrough technologies (except for Porsche, whose 911 has been pretty stable for years) and this usually causes the public to become guinea pigs to some extent, even if standards are still high. (Bill Gates has been doing this for years assisted by his almost exclusive operating system – translate: MB loyalists.)

MB allows a compromise between leading technology and some degree of setbacks as a result. MB contends that Lexus and others are followers and not leaders, and therefore it is easier to perfect standards this way. I don't think this is entirely true, as Toyota (Lexus), Honda (Acura), and Nissan (Infinity) have all been contributors to technical advances. However, MB (Audi, BMW, Volvo) are usually innovators of automotive surges that set the pace.

Furthermore, in truth, some of the issues MB have do not at all deal with technical experiments. When AC, heaters, noises, rattles, leaks, etc., are failing with MB, this technical alibi falls down. It’s a nice cop-out, but not always the whole truth. Toyota quality, for instance, has stood for reliable workmanship for fit and finish standards for years. This said, most MB issues are electrical and MB is a leader in advancing electrical communication in their product.

Finally, let's face it. MB knows that many people buy their cars for perceived status and prestige and pure styling characteristics alone. Even in their post-purchase surveys, one of the questions as to why you chose MB is simply, styling. German engineers have stated for years that they spend countless hours in visual media labs to come up with linear and curvature design that meets the interest of humans in terms of pure scientific (neural) tendencies. Knowing all these things, they can slowly lax their standards a bit on the simpler things in trade for the advantages they have elsewhere.

Why do you think they get the price they do on their cars? They do not always have better power, accessories, or features beyond competing models per each class, especially per the price. The reasons above are clearly why they get their prices. Some people just feel pleasure in saying they have a Mercedes and they like the look and styling which gives them a boost in their choice in purchasing this make. The technical features are always a plus, but as one person just said, they would “rather have any MB with 2 problems than most of the comparable Lexus's with only 1 problem.” What does this tell you? And, this loyalist outlook also helps MB.

Consider that the substances in their factory brake pads actually eat into the finish on their wheels (amongst a few similar examples). This causes dulling and many people either upgrade their wheels through MB, or simply trade their car in. The dust could be eliminated (as aftermarket pads have done – like Porterfield) and the materials used could be different. But MB will either play dumb or indifferent as they swear by their own products for one reason… to boost sales, period! These little nuisances they’re known for keep people coming back to the dealerships, which aids sales, too. Let’s use our heads. MB certainly has. This is a business. If those JD power reports were steering people away from MB, it would be different. But they know otherwise. MB has experienced their best sales figures ever in 2003.

Translation? They make a car everybody cherishes and they know it. Little need to change anything that is working, financially anyway.

For the record, I have had good luck with my MB's and we love our car(s). I will be purchasing at least two more models this year (AMG E and AMG SL). I do this to celebrate their push for safer, environmentally-friendly (remember, MB can run on ethanol) and leading-edge technologies in the automotive industry. For the service issues, they'll hear about those as well! Let’s keep them honest, after all.

Christopher Jones

Vince

is that sebring or silverstone. I'm looking for a silverstone on red.

lig

Hey Vince -

Mine is Sebring/black. You should check out s2ki.com Tons of informationa and a very active community.

Will this be your daily driver? Do you like the peaky nature of the car? It sounds like Honda is going to make it a little more civilized for '04. 2.2 liters - same hp but higher torque. The downside is that it won't rev to 9k.

I love the very narrow focus of the car - so the current model is perfect for me. If this is your daily driver - you might like the added torque of the newer models.

fAEt

That chart is not very accurate... it doesnt say what kind of problems the car has. For instance, my friend owns a Infiniti; he parked it in his garage, an a half hour later; he saw the engine on fire...
now thats 1 problems... Kinda major, but 1 problem..
now my SLK, has had some problems... 1) the window button popped in... 2) the glove box light was bad...

now accoriding to survey, Inifinities must be more reliable since they only had ONE problem... even though my car could still drive, while my friends, was in the shop for 2weeks...

Vince

yeah i'm over at s2ki all the time now. A lot of good people over there with a lot of great knowledge about cars and racing in general. I go by "enlightenment" over there, since vince was taken already. This is going to be my daily driver but i don't think i want a 2004. More civil sounds like a bad thing to me . I also heard that they might soften the suspension, also bad . I like the current F20C. And yes the 2004 should be the S2200 IMO

Vince

also have you heard anything about if the 2004 will have a K series motor?

lig

You're well on you way! Sounds like you've done your homework. It's just an entirely different driving experience. Get ready. :p

I certainly can't say with any kind of certainty - but the general consensus is that it won't be a "K" motor but more of a stroked F22C kind of beast.

p.s. I'm lig on the s2ki board also...

I must say - I just came back from a little trip down to Portland. The E320 is the best highway car I've ever owned. My MB is an '03 black with 18" bling chrome AMGs. Serious head turner. But if it's a pleasure drive? Hands down - I'm driving the S2000.