snapped wheel bolt
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From: Toronto, Canada
2019 C300 Wagon; '75 Triumph TR6; previous: 2004 C230 6spd sold after 17 years of driving
snapped wheel bolt
The bolts have always been hand torqued both on and off so it was to my amazement that my Rad locking wheel bolt snapped in the front hub when I was removing by hand with my breaker bar. I think that I should go to the Olympics as I am stronger than I ever thought I was. I never expected this from a 'Made in Germany' bolt just hope they don't make fasteners for the aircraft industry, anyone know of bolts made in China I am sure they are not any worse. Not impressed with the quality (or rather lack of) of RAD bolts.
now what?
also can i drive with 4 lug bolts in the front wheel until I get it fixed? After all some cars have 4 or even 3 bolts...yes I know some have 1 but that is british roadsters, a few exotics and formula cars
At least I don't need that wheel locator peg to change that wheel
now what?
also can i drive with 4 lug bolts in the front wheel until I get it fixed? After all some cars have 4 or even 3 bolts...yes I know some have 1 but that is british roadsters, a few exotics and formula cars
At least I don't need that wheel locator peg to change that wheel
Last edited by Boom vang; Jul 12, 2012 at 10:16 AM.
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From: Westwood, NJ
2004 Civic Si. FWD for the Win!
I thought Canadians were resourceful!
Yes, 4 bolts wouldn't be a problem really.
Great time to do the stud conversion.
If they were hand tightened, what ft-lb were you tightening them to so that you would need a breaker bar?
Sounds like you've been overtightening them to me.
If there's no part of the bolt that's external, drilling it out would be your best bet, other than taking it to a good wheel shop and letting them handle it.
Yes, 4 bolts wouldn't be a problem really.
Great time to do the stud conversion.
If they were hand tightened, what ft-lb were you tightening them to so that you would need a breaker bar?
Sounds like you've been overtightening them to me.If there's no part of the bolt that's external, drilling it out would be your best bet, other than taking it to a good wheel shop and letting them handle it.
Thread Starter
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From: Toronto, Canada
2019 C300 Wagon; '75 Triumph TR6; previous: 2004 C230 6spd sold after 17 years of driving
bolts have always been hand torqued to 80lb,
the bolts are rusty on the threaded part and probably a combination of salt, heat from the front brakes and poor quality bolts from RAD. All of the other bolts came out albeit a very squeaky sound, the RAD bolt was moving making a loud squeaking sound and then snap, I actually did not really put that much pressure on it
I have always cleaned the treads with a brass brush before inserting to get rid of the rust on summer wheel switch over. Always been tempted to put a bit of anti-seize on the treads but for those bolts it is never recommended as torque settings can not be trusted
the bolts are rusty on the threaded part and probably a combination of salt, heat from the front brakes and poor quality bolts from RAD. All of the other bolts came out albeit a very squeaky sound, the RAD bolt was moving making a loud squeaking sound and then snap, I actually did not really put that much pressure on it
I have always cleaned the treads with a brass brush before inserting to get rid of the rust on summer wheel switch over. Always been tempted to put a bit of anti-seize on the treads but for those bolts it is never recommended as torque settings can not be trusted
Out Of Control!!
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From: Westwood, NJ
2004 Civic Si. FWD for the Win!
Might want to think about replacing bolts every year then, when Canada thaws out. You should never reuse bolts once they've shown any rust on the threads.
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From: Toronto, Canada
2019 C300 Wagon; '75 Triumph TR6; previous: 2004 C230 6spd sold after 17 years of driving
The rust is on the ends of the bolts that slightly stick out beyond the hub, it is not crumbling rust but rather the bolts have that rusty colour at the tips.
almost every wheel stud on every car goes rusty unless you live in Arizona
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From: Toronto, Canada
2019 C300 Wagon; '75 Triumph TR6; previous: 2004 C230 6spd sold after 17 years of driving
Hey Tommy, nothing is free, we pay for it in almost every other way, such as income taxes about double, sales tax of 13%, gas going for $5.30/us gal, a case of beer(24) for $40 and car parts that are more than double the price
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Out Of Control!!
Joined: Nov 2001
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From: Westwood, NJ
2004 Civic Si. FWD for the Win!
Well, if you need any parts now, better hurry. I'll be in Toronto in two weekends, and am already the mule for whatever jcnash is ordering and shipping to me here in Jersey. So feel free to join in.
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From: Toronto
SpeedRiven SL600, ML320CDI
1) weld on another bolt and try to take it out
2) drill a small hole and use reversible threaded punch
You are welcome to drop by my shop - I should be able to take it out in 30 minutes max. And yes, you can drive on 4 bolts, but do not make it a habit
Igor.
Last edited by AccelToronto; Jul 11, 2012 at 03:10 PM.
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From: Toronto, Ontario, Canada, eh!
2003 C230 Sports Coupe, Paprika Metallic Red, Auto, Pano, Leather
I'm a bit surprised because RAD are OEM quality German made.
Are you using your original OEM rims? Or some aftermarket rims or rims from a different Mercedes class? The reason I'm asking is because quite often people put on non-original rims which usually have different bolt seat; using bolts on rims with mismatching seat size and shape can damage the bolt over time.
Also wondering if these RAD locking bolts were chrome,... since chrome bolts get weaken by road salt.
Are you able to get that wheel off? Or did the locking bolt break at such a point that the wheels can't come off? Here's something to try if the wheels can't come off,..... Not that I know from personal experience,.... anyways, a technique wheel theives uses to steal rims that are bolted on with a locking bolt is to overtighten the non-locking bolts,... that pushes the rim extra tight against the hub and the locking bolt becomes the loosest bolt,... and can at this point usually be unbolted by hand. Anyways,.... just trying to be a resourceful Canadian, eh!
Are you using your original OEM rims? Or some aftermarket rims or rims from a different Mercedes class? The reason I'm asking is because quite often people put on non-original rims which usually have different bolt seat; using bolts on rims with mismatching seat size and shape can damage the bolt over time.
Also wondering if these RAD locking bolts were chrome,... since chrome bolts get weaken by road salt.
Are you able to get that wheel off? Or did the locking bolt break at such a point that the wheels can't come off? Here's something to try if the wheels can't come off,..... Not that I know from personal experience,.... anyways, a technique wheel theives uses to steal rims that are bolted on with a locking bolt is to overtighten the non-locking bolts,... that pushes the rim extra tight against the hub and the locking bolt becomes the loosest bolt,... and can at this point usually be unbolted by hand. Anyways,.... just trying to be a resourceful Canadian, eh!
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From: Toronto, Canada
2019 C300 Wagon; '75 Triumph TR6; previous: 2004 C230 6spd sold after 17 years of driving
I'm a bit surprised because RAD are OEM quality German made.
Are you using your original OEM rims? Or some aftermarket rims or rims from a different Mercedes class? The reason I'm asking is because quite often people put on non-original rims which usually have different bolt seat; using bolts on rims with mismatching seat size and shape can damage the bolt over time.
Also wondering if these RAD locking bolts were chrome,... since chrome bolts get weaken by road salt.
Are you able to get that wheel off? Or did the locking bolt break at such a point that the wheels can't come off? Here's something to try if the wheels can't come off,..... Not that I know from personal experience,.... anyways, a technique wheel theives uses to steal rims that are bolted on with a locking bolt is to overtighten the non-locking bolts,... that pushes the rim extra tight against the hub and the locking bolt becomes the loosest bolt,... and can at this point usually be unbolted by hand. Anyways,.... just trying to be a resourceful Canadian, eh!
Are you using your original OEM rims? Or some aftermarket rims or rims from a different Mercedes class? The reason I'm asking is because quite often people put on non-original rims which usually have different bolt seat; using bolts on rims with mismatching seat size and shape can damage the bolt over time.
Also wondering if these RAD locking bolts were chrome,... since chrome bolts get weaken by road salt.
Are you able to get that wheel off? Or did the locking bolt break at such a point that the wheels can't come off? Here's something to try if the wheels can't come off,..... Not that I know from personal experience,.... anyways, a technique wheel theives uses to steal rims that are bolted on with a locking bolt is to overtighten the non-locking bolts,... that pushes the rim extra tight against the hub and the locking bolt becomes the loosest bolt,... and can at this point usually be unbolted by hand. Anyways,.... just trying to be a resourceful Canadian, eh!
RAD locks were the same colour as the standard MB bolts (dull silver) they are not chrome
Wheels are OEM 17" funnel MB
I can get the wheel off as the head snapped off
Thread Starter
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From: Toronto, Canada
2019 C300 Wagon; '75 Triumph TR6; previous: 2004 C230 6spd sold after 17 years of driving
Follow up (see posted pictures of damage) I had contacted RAD in the USA and now have heard from the CEO/Director in Germany who is looking into this as they assured me that this has never happened and their bolts can take up to 4 times the recommended torque. Will keep you posted, would be nice if they covered my expenses to get the bolt removed. Nice to know that my rant is being heard by the manufacturer
Last edited by Boom vang; Jul 12, 2012 at 10:24 AM.
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From: 1 hours drive north of Sydney Australia
2007 W204 220CDI Classic Sedan
I have lightly greased my wheel stud thread & face for 48 years of motoring & only torqued them in the last 4 years with a W204 . I have backed off the torque 10ft lbs to compensate.
It prevents corrosion, seizure ,thread stripping, stud shearing, wheel damage at point of stud impact & hernias on cold wet nights when changing a wheel.
Those of us with wives & daughters should feel more relaxed that they can change the wheel themselves rather than being stuck on the side of a road.
It prevents corrosion, seizure ,thread stripping, stud shearing, wheel damage at point of stud impact & hernias on cold wet nights when changing a wheel.
Those of us with wives & daughters should feel more relaxed that they can change the wheel themselves rather than being stuck on the side of a road.
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From: Orange County
2005 C Wagon (No snickering please!)
I do know of bolts made in China! They are Dacromet coated just like OEM Mercedes bolts. They are not for cars though, they hold railroad tracks on the ties. They are changing to a new process called Geomet. The primary reason is the Dacromet is unfriendly with enviornmental wackos, and it is not resistant to acid cleaners. If you are using a wheel cleaner product, this might be why your bolts are rusty, and then break when removing them.
There are a couple of things you can do. Stop using cleaners that contain acid until RAD sees the light and changes to Geomet. You can also use lanolin on the bolts. It is a thick waxey lubricant made from wool. You wipe it on with a brush or finger, and wipe it off. It will retain a light coating no matter how hard you wipe. It won't attract dirt (how else would sheep stay so white?) or become rancid. It won't cause a material change in your torque settings.
http://www.flexbar.com/shop/pc/LANO-...BE-83p3158.htm
There are a couple of things you can do. Stop using cleaners that contain acid until RAD sees the light and changes to Geomet. You can also use lanolin on the bolts. It is a thick waxey lubricant made from wool. You wipe it on with a brush or finger, and wipe it off. It will retain a light coating no matter how hard you wipe. It won't attract dirt (how else would sheep stay so white?) or become rancid. It won't cause a material change in your torque settings.
http://www.flexbar.com/shop/pc/LANO-...BE-83p3158.htm
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From: Toronto, Canada
2019 C300 Wagon; '75 Triumph TR6; previous: 2004 C230 6spd sold after 17 years of driving
never once did I use any type of wheel cleaners, only use car wash soap and hand clean the car. the reference to Chinese bolt was a joke, although it is quite a problem in the aircraft industry using counterfeit parts are from China namely sub standard bolts.
the rusting is a result of living in a winter country with tons of salt on the roads
One thing that I notice is that my OEM bolts have quite a long shank where as the RAD's are threaded all the way to the head which is where it snapped, of course threading does remove material and will make the bolt a bit weaker
the rusting is a result of living in a winter country with tons of salt on the roads
One thing that I notice is that my OEM bolts have quite a long shank where as the RAD's are threaded all the way to the head which is where it snapped, of course threading does remove material and will make the bolt a bit weaker
Last edited by Boom vang; Jul 13, 2012 at 01:28 AM.
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From: Orange County
2005 C Wagon (No snickering please!)
I knew you were joking about the bolts, and I also know of problems with counterfeit products. Even legitimate manufacturers in China are starting to complain about it.
There is no material removed when threading the RAD bolts. Most high volume wheel bolts are made by a process called cold forging.
I agree that the salted roads are not so good for cars. I think that is the reason the bolts are rusty where they exit the wheel flange. Dacramet can take some salt spray, but as I recall it is several hundred hours.
Do try some lanolin. Farmers have used it for centuries.
There is no material removed when threading the RAD bolts. Most high volume wheel bolts are made by a process called cold forging.
I agree that the salted roads are not so good for cars. I think that is the reason the bolts are rusty where they exit the wheel flange. Dacramet can take some salt spray, but as I recall it is several hundred hours.
Do try some lanolin. Farmers have used it for centuries.
Thread Starter
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From: Toronto, Canada
2019 C300 Wagon; '75 Triumph TR6; previous: 2004 C230 6spd sold after 17 years of driving
the reply from RAD after consultation with their engineers in Germany. I still like to think that I have super-human strength by breaking a 12mm cold forged bolt by hand albeit a 18" breaker bar...guess that is why they call it a 'breaker bar'. Too bad that my 'cold welding' was not a 'cold fusion' discovery
Letter is below
Dear Mr _____,
After speaking with Rolf the following is what we determined from the pictures. It is not necessary for you to return the broken bolt to Germany.
If you look at your photo IMG_0067 you will see a brake with completely fouled bolt holes (at the bottom and also the top right hole are full of rust and residue. This is due to adverse weather conditions.
The lock bolt in IMG_0064 is extremely rusty at the tip. The bolt which snapped with the shank still inside the brake seized as a result of the rust. You will remember that you claimed that the bolt snapped when you tried to loosen the bolt for a change-over. Due to the seizure at the tip, the shank could not move so that you twisted the head off in the first thread, close to the ball seat. This first thread acts like a predetermined breaking point.
This happens when one tries to open rusted bolt/nut connections, no matter how much WD40 you would use. In most cases the bolt or stud snaps.
If you dismantles your brake (which you will have to do anyhow as you probably won't be able to get the remaining stud out in the way we recommended previously (by drilling a hole and use a counter-clockwise tap). You will then see that the bolt and the brake are rusted together (similar to cold-welding).
Our recommendation: All bolt hole threads have to be re-cut to avoid the same fouling. The RAD bolts are not the issue.
In regards to the design difference between the OEM Mercedes bolt and the RAD bolts, Mercedes thread is only 20mm of the O.E. bolt which is no problem. This is a measure to reduce cost as thread rolls with a 20mm thickness are less expensive than 60mm rolls which RAD uses. RAD's advantage is we can use the opposite side as well. The reason we are threading the full shank is simply because our customers are also using the bolts on other cars and sometimes they're cutting them to requirement. A Mercedes bolt would be of no use since it runs out of threads if cut. Where you are mistaken is that thread-rolling the shank increases strength not vice-versa.
I hope this helps to explain a little what happened and how to correct the issue.
Letter is below
Dear Mr _____,
After speaking with Rolf the following is what we determined from the pictures. It is not necessary for you to return the broken bolt to Germany.
If you look at your photo IMG_0067 you will see a brake with completely fouled bolt holes (at the bottom and also the top right hole are full of rust and residue. This is due to adverse weather conditions.
The lock bolt in IMG_0064 is extremely rusty at the tip. The bolt which snapped with the shank still inside the brake seized as a result of the rust. You will remember that you claimed that the bolt snapped when you tried to loosen the bolt for a change-over. Due to the seizure at the tip, the shank could not move so that you twisted the head off in the first thread, close to the ball seat. This first thread acts like a predetermined breaking point.
This happens when one tries to open rusted bolt/nut connections, no matter how much WD40 you would use. In most cases the bolt or stud snaps.
If you dismantles your brake (which you will have to do anyhow as you probably won't be able to get the remaining stud out in the way we recommended previously (by drilling a hole and use a counter-clockwise tap). You will then see that the bolt and the brake are rusted together (similar to cold-welding).
Our recommendation: All bolt hole threads have to be re-cut to avoid the same fouling. The RAD bolts are not the issue.
In regards to the design difference between the OEM Mercedes bolt and the RAD bolts, Mercedes thread is only 20mm of the O.E. bolt which is no problem. This is a measure to reduce cost as thread rolls with a 20mm thickness are less expensive than 60mm rolls which RAD uses. RAD's advantage is we can use the opposite side as well. The reason we are threading the full shank is simply because our customers are also using the bolts on other cars and sometimes they're cutting them to requirement. A Mercedes bolt would be of no use since it runs out of threads if cut. Where you are mistaken is that thread-rolling the shank increases strength not vice-versa.
I hope this helps to explain a little what happened and how to correct the issue.
Last edited by Boom vang; Jul 13, 2012 at 10:37 PM.
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From: Toronto, Ontario, Canada, eh!
2003 C230 Sports Coupe, Paprika Metallic Red, Auto, Pano, Leather
Hmmm,.... looks like its time to get new OEM Mercedes Wheel Locks. Mercedes Part# B6-647-0143 (I think). Cost,... too much at Mercedes-Benz Stealership.
Here's a secret,.... Mercedes OEM Wheel Locks are made by McGard,... but McGard are not allowed to sell them here in North America as per their contract with Mercedes. So you're best source is buying them overseas on ebay.co.uk - even with shipping its about half the price that you'll pay here at a Mercede-Benz Stealership. Look for McGard 28023 or 28023SL (SL is better - it has spinning collar so it's tougher to defeat)
McGard Part number: 28023 SL for Mercedes CL/S/W203 Alloy wheels
Type: Lockable wheel bolt
Thread size: M12x1.5
Seat: radius/sphere R12
Shaft length/total length: 39,9 mm
Shaft diameter:
Hex size: 17 mm
In Toronto, there's a shop that sells used parts for Mercedes at south-east corner of Davenport Rd & Shaw St,... they usually have some used Mercedes (McGard) wheel locks. Call 416-652-1404
Here's a secret,.... Mercedes OEM Wheel Locks are made by McGard,... but McGard are not allowed to sell them here in North America as per their contract with Mercedes. So you're best source is buying them overseas on ebay.co.uk - even with shipping its about half the price that you'll pay here at a Mercede-Benz Stealership. Look for McGard 28023 or 28023SL (SL is better - it has spinning collar so it's tougher to defeat)
McGard Part number: 28023 SL for Mercedes CL/S/W203 Alloy wheels
Type: Lockable wheel bolt
Thread size: M12x1.5
Seat: radius/sphere R12
Shaft length/total length: 39,9 mm
Shaft diameter:
Hex size: 17 mm
In Toronto, there's a shop that sells used parts for Mercedes at south-east corner of Davenport Rd & Shaw St,... they usually have some used Mercedes (McGard) wheel locks. Call 416-652-1404
