CHIPS, not Ponch and John
02-24-2002, 11:13 PM
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C230 Sport Coupe Orion Blue
CHIPS, not Ponch and John
Has anyone installed an upgraded ECU. Can the dealer detect it, and if so, does this void any part of the service plan? If you have intalled one, where did you buy it? Is it a DYI project? Is the performance increase as advertised? Thanks.
02-24-2002, 11:53 PM
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2006 MB C230 SS 6spd, Navi
Re CHIPS
I asked similar questions of this forum about the UPsolute chip which seems to have the best advertised performance; however, I received no replies. I hope you fare better.
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02-25-2002, 10:32 AM
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C230 Sport Coupe Orion Blue
It's seems that in most of the posts on chiping people talk about plans to intstall a chip. I'm hoping someone can share thier results. What about Wetterauer chips?
02-25-2002, 11:29 AM
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C230 Sports Coupe
Originally posted by pilotzax
It's seems that in most of the posts on chiping people talk about plans to intstall a chip. I'm hoping someone can share thier results. What about Wetterauer chips?
It's seems that in most of the posts on chiping people talk about plans to intstall a chip. I'm hoping someone can share thier results. What about Wetterauer chips?
02-26-2002, 01:04 AM
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The Upsolute ECU mod seems to be the most popular on this forum. They have a way of opening the box, desoldering the chip, programming it, resoldering it and reassembling the box so that it's undetectable. If there's a warranttee issue they will program it back to stock. Not a bad deal for $325 installed. Performance increase is about 10 HP from 30mph up to about 110mph. At around 120mph there's an anomily that makes it show a 30 HP improvement. I posted the graph a few weeks ago, you'll have to search for it.
I only know of one person that Upsoluted his car on this forum and that's Mark Cummings. He seems to be happy with his decision. He ordered the Kleemann pulley kit which is what I want to see the results of. It won't be in for a few weeks as they are still tweaking the design. The pulley is going to be the best bang for the buck in torque and HP other than NO2. The pulley manufacturers claim asm much as a 38 HP increase and as much as 42 ft. lbs of torque. I haven't seen anything to substantiate these claims but I'm waiting.
I only know of one person that Upsoluted his car on this forum and that's Mark Cummings. He seems to be happy with his decision. He ordered the Kleemann pulley kit which is what I want to see the results of. It won't be in for a few weeks as they are still tweaking the design. The pulley is going to be the best bang for the buck in torque and HP other than NO2. The pulley manufacturers claim asm much as a 38 HP increase and as much as 42 ft. lbs of torque. I haven't seen anything to substantiate these claims but I'm waiting.
02-26-2002, 09:54 AM
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2006 MB C230 SS 6spd, Navi
Tuner Musings
I'm really curious what happens when you combine a reprogrammed ECU (shifted timing curves, more fuel) with the pulley kit from Kleeman. <BR>Is the combined effect greater or less than the sum of the HP gains from the individual mods? <BR>Also are reprogramming the ECU and the Stage III fuel modification mutually exclusive mods? <BR><BR>Continuing with combined effects most reports about exhaust kits here in the forum claim negligible HP gains (I believe two was the number). <BR>I imagine that is before you add a pulley kit which is making the engine breath harder any relief of back pressure in the cylinder is probably more beneficial now and its effects will be felt more.<BR>Finally on the subject of breathing there have been no threads on intercooler mods that I can see. The only one I can find is by renntech and it is relatively expensive. From my experience in driving the car on cold (30F) as well as warm days (75F) this engine really loves it's air cold and you can really tell the difference. Does anyone have a similar experience?
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02-26-2002, 06:35 PM
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Why change a chip and give the car more fuel ??????.
All MB cars will OE have 5,3 % Co = lambda 0,85 at full engine load. To add more fuel will not give one singel HP, to an engine which already is haveing exactly the amount of fuel to run perfect.
You can even go back to 1 - 2 % Co. level without loosing power,
but ofcause with great risk of burning holes in the pistons.
With a chip tuning, there is power gain in changeing ignition timing and run with higher timing curve. To combine with a pulley
kit which gives far more than a chip, can be a little dangerous.
To run with higher boost and higher timing than OE at the same time, can cause detonation......Be very careful not to mix too many
things working in oposit directions.
All MB cars will OE have 5,3 % Co = lambda 0,85 at full engine load. To add more fuel will not give one singel HP, to an engine which already is haveing exactly the amount of fuel to run perfect.
You can even go back to 1 - 2 % Co. level without loosing power,
but ofcause with great risk of burning holes in the pistons.
With a chip tuning, there is power gain in changeing ignition timing and run with higher timing curve. To combine with a pulley
kit which gives far more than a chip, can be a little dangerous.
To run with higher boost and higher timing than OE at the same time, can cause detonation......Be very careful not to mix too many
things working in oposit directions.
02-26-2002, 09:00 PM
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2006 MB C230 SS 6spd, Navi
Originally posted by Lucas
Why change a chip and give the car more fuel ??????.
All MB cars will OE have 5,3 % Co = lambda 0,85 at full engine load. To add more fuel will not give one singel HP, to an engine which already is haveing exactly the amount of fuel to run perfect.
You can even go back to 1 - 2 % Co. level without loosing power,
but ofcause with great risk of burning holes in the pistons.
With a chip tuning, there is power gain in changeing ignition timing and run with higher timing curve. To combine with a pulley
kit which gives far more than a chip, can be a little dangerous.
To run with higher boost and higher timing than OE at the same time, can cause detonation......Be very careful not to mix too many
things working in oposit directions.
Why change a chip and give the car more fuel ??????.
All MB cars will OE have 5,3 % Co = lambda 0,85 at full engine load. To add more fuel will not give one singel HP, to an engine which already is haveing exactly the amount of fuel to run perfect.
You can even go back to 1 - 2 % Co. level without loosing power,
but ofcause with great risk of burning holes in the pistons.
With a chip tuning, there is power gain in changeing ignition timing and run with higher timing curve. To combine with a pulley
kit which gives far more than a chip, can be a little dangerous.
To run with higher boost and higher timing than OE at the same time, can cause detonation......Be very careful not to mix too many
things working in oposit directions.
1) Under added boost you are likely too need more fuel otherwise you'd run too lean and as the piston arrives at TDC the corresponding expansion of gases due to ignition would be lacking the required force to drive the piston back.<BR>
2)Your point regarding detonation is well taken; however, I am not so sure that a forced induction engine which already runs a lower compression ratio would be subject to it unless you advance the timing too aggressively. <BR>As I understand it in order too have detonation ignition of the fuel / gas mixture must occur prematurely while the piston travels to TDC on the compression cycle. It could happen, I guess if chips push the timing curve that much. But the boost would have to be so great as to superheat the gases in the cylinder thereby causing dieseling.<BR><BR>What do you think Lucas?
02-26-2002, 09:54 PM
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C230 Sports Coupe
I will be getting the Renntech pully shortly but Hopefully after a few more people get the Upsolute chip and especially after the one that is switchable from a key fob is availble, I will be getting that chip. Heck you get a 30 day trial, if you dont like it take it back.
02-27-2002, 04:13 PM
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Mr. Earp
1. first of all it's not neccessary to change anything at the chip
to keep up the perfect Co% level ( 5,3%Co, Lambda 0,85 ) by fitting a pulley kit.
The ECU have between 20-30 % extra to give, this means you
can boost up the engine with 20-30%, and just by driving on the
road for 150-200 miles, the ECU will adapt it self.
It could be, that the engine will run a little lean in the begining, but after a little while it will slowly start to reprogram and will
end up giving exactly the same values, as when the car was stock.
This is why I say, why change some thing which anyway adapt it self, and always seek the perfect settings it self.
2. What I said was, be careful when you are dooing both, higher
boost and at the same time higher timing curve, can be a dangerous experiment, in the hands of a driveway mechanic.
Don't play with it you self go some where and seek proffessionel
help.
1. first of all it's not neccessary to change anything at the chip
to keep up the perfect Co% level ( 5,3%Co, Lambda 0,85 ) by fitting a pulley kit.
The ECU have between 20-30 % extra to give, this means you
can boost up the engine with 20-30%, and just by driving on the
road for 150-200 miles, the ECU will adapt it self.
It could be, that the engine will run a little lean in the begining, but after a little while it will slowly start to reprogram and will
end up giving exactly the same values, as when the car was stock.
This is why I say, why change some thing which anyway adapt it self, and always seek the perfect settings it self.
2. What I said was, be careful when you are dooing both, higher
boost and at the same time higher timing curve, can be a dangerous experiment, in the hands of a driveway mechanic.
Don't play with it you self go some where and seek proffessionel
help.
02-27-2002, 05:18 PM
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Professionals
Yes, we here at KLEEMANN are the professionals you speak of- we are always getting our fingers dirty playing with it ourselves. Its a dirty job but someone has to do it.
02-27-2002, 06:02 PM
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2006 MB C230 SS 6spd, Navi
OUCH!
Originally posted by Lucas
Mr. Earp
1. first of all it's not neccessary to change anything at the chip
to keep up the perfect Co% level ( 5,3%Co, Lambda 0,85 ) by fitting a pulley kit.
The ECU have between 20-30 % extra to give, this means you
can boost up the engine with 20-30%, and just by driving on the
road for 150-200 miles, the ECU will adapt it self.
It could be, that the engine will run a little lean in the begining, but after a little while it will slowly start to reprogram and will
end up giving exactly the same values, as when the car was stock.
This is why I say, why change some thing which anyway adapt it self, and always seek the perfect settings it self.
2. What I said was, be careful when you are dooing both, higher
boost and at the same time higher timing curve, can be a dangerous experiment, in the hands of a driveway mechanic.
Don't <I><u>play with it</u></I> you self go some where and <I><u>seek proffessionel
help.</u></I>
Mr. Earp
1. first of all it's not neccessary to change anything at the chip
to keep up the perfect Co% level ( 5,3%Co, Lambda 0,85 ) by fitting a pulley kit.
The ECU have between 20-30 % extra to give, this means you
can boost up the engine with 20-30%, and just by driving on the
road for 150-200 miles, the ECU will adapt it self.
It could be, that the engine will run a little lean in the begining, but after a little while it will slowly start to reprogram and will
end up giving exactly the same values, as when the car was stock.
This is why I say, why change some thing which anyway adapt it self, and always seek the perfect settings it self.
2. What I said was, be careful when you are dooing both, higher
boost and at the same time higher timing curve, can be a dangerous experiment, in the hands of a driveway mechanic.
Don't <I><u>play with it</u></I> you self go some where and <I><u>seek proffessionel
help.</u></I>
Last edited by WyattEarp; 02-27-2002 at 06:06 PM.
