DaODB

So, I went back to my indy after my service and he said I urgently needed new brakes and rotors on the front. He said the back were fine.

I took it in today, and he couldn't get my front left caliper pin off. He said it was frozen, and then said he could not do my brakes and would have to buy another part. I will be going back on Thursday, and he says the part is $200. I did a bit of my own research, and many people say you can buy a new pin and drill the frozen one out and replace the pins. So I decided to call him back and asked if this was possible instead of replacing the caliper, and he said "We aren't replacing the caliper. The pins are frozen, so we have to replace the part where the pins go in."

The total job for my front brakes/rotors, this new $200 part, and a brake flush will total out to be around $750.

I tried my best to explain, but I am by no means a mechanic and not sure if I am getting ripped off. Please help!

Thank you

ncmudbug

Unless your brakes are a lot different from those on my '05 C230, the only pin I can think of that he might be talking about is the pin that retains the pads and spring clip to keep the pads still. The pin goes through the caliper through the pads, etc. One side of the pin has a "head" and spring clip to retain it in the caliper and the other side is where you knock it out of the caliper. I've never heard of one freezing but that doesn't mean it doesn't happen. They usually come out pretty easily with a punch and a tap of a hammer. I can't imagine that you'd ever need to drill it out but if it is truly frozen, it could be drilled out with varying degrees of difficulty depending on where it is frozen. I have no idea what he's talking about with the $200 part the pin goes into. At this point, I'm a little suspicious

What can get frozen is the screw that holds the rotor on to the hub (basically till you put the wheel on). But that is not a pin and it doesn't require purchasing a $200 part replacement, just some determined effort and a new screw.

Do you know how many miles are on your rotors and pads? The general rule is that rotors should be replaced ever other pad change (probably between 60K and 80K miles). Did the brake pad warning light come on? Did you hear any squealing? What do the rotors look like. Are they flat or do they have "gouges" that go around the disk. Is there a noticeable shoulder or ridge on the edge of the disk (the interior of the rotor is thinner than the very outer edge)? I think you should be able to see these things with the wheel still on the car. If your brake light did not come on, your pads are PROBABLY in good shape. If there are no gouges in your disk and there is no noticeable ridge or shoulder or it is very small (up to 1/16") around the outside edge of the rotor your rotor does not need to be replace IMMEDIATELY - but it may be worn enough that it should be replaced.

You might want to check out another indy for a second opinion.

DaODB

The "pin" he was working on was after the brake pads were already off. It appeared he was using a wrench to unscrew something, so perhaps he was mistakenly calling it a pin instead of the screw.

He was already frustrated before working on my car, so perhaps he wasn't putting in much effort. I still am unsure of what part he ordered, as he told me it wasn't the caliper.

I have no clue how many miles are on the brakes... but I have had the car for about 60,000 and haven't replaced them. A while back, maybe 2 years, I was told to replace them at Mercedes after a service, but ever since then I have had not been told anything about them. The previous owner didn't provide records, so I am not sure what he did to the car. There is definitely a squeak from 2 metal parts rubbing together when I apply the brake. Not loud but definitely sounds like 2 metal pieces rotating together. Furthermore, when I reverse and turn the wheel left, the front left wheel also makes a squeak randomly. There have been no alerts of a brake warning, but perhaps the previous owner didn't put the sensors on. I mean heck, he used to fill the car with regular gasoline.

I cannot take a look right now... getting prepared for the holiday. I'll try to get a second opinion, however I already have a trusting relationship with this mechanic after he did me very well with my replacement AC Compressor and low priced service B.

Thanks and happy holidays!

ncmudbug

It sounds reasonable that you'd need new rotors. I'm baffled about this "pin" business and having done brake jobs on my two C230s (they're pretty much like most cars) it gives me pause when somebody talks about a "pin". If you trust him and you've already ordered the part then I guess you'll find out eventually what he's talking about. Don't forget to clue us in (maybe I've forgotten something!). I hope everything works out for you!

Hope you had a good New Year's, too!

DaODB

I posted on another forum and a user said this "It's true floating calipers are held on with bolts, but those bolts are often referred to as "caliper glide pins", even if that's not what they're called in WIS. I wouldn't be surprised to hear an indy refer to them that way.

If it was too rusted, or more likely, over-torqued by the previous mechanic then it would indeed have to be drilled out and the mounting bracket would need to be replaced.

It's the sort of problem that shouldn't happen but does occasionally."

ncmudbug

I've never heard (or don't remember) the term "guide pins" referring to bolts attaching a caliper to the upright. As you say, it could be a difference in terms (though there is nothing to guide on a fixed caliper, which is what I have on my '05 and '06 C230s). If you have floating calipers, that is probably where my misunderstanding lies and this is beginning to make a lot more sense!

Do keep us informed about how everything goes!

DaODB

I just called him and wanted to give you all an update, because I know how annoying it is when people never give a solution in their problem threads.

He did say it was the bracket. He caught the flu today so I cannot go in until tomorrow. I asked if it would be extra labor, he said no because it is a simple part. He also went into a lot of detail (again, I am no mechanic so I tried my best at understanding). He was saying how he could keep the old bracket, but if he were to try to get the pins out, it would take probably around 2 hours, and there is a possibility of it breaking. He said that would be around $170 labor for the 2 hours and keeping the old part, or $180 for the new bracket I am getting, which is why he decided on that.

I will post again after I have it fixed tomorrow. I was alright with the $500 rotor/brake job.... but man this extra $200 feels like it's changing up the whole situation!

Thanks!

ncmudbug

I know how unexpected things can change the tenor of things. The $170 for labor sounds right. Hopefully he'll have everything squared away when you pick it up.

Let us know how it turns out.

DaODB

Well, everything went good today. It was about $680 total. He replaced the bracket, both rotors, both pads, and did a brake flush. He answered all my questions I had, and said that the brake warning never came up because it hasn't hit THAT point yet, but it was still very close (within a week).

But now, my brakes are perfect. I must have bought the car with bad brakes, because each time I tap the brake now, it feels like it's the emergency brake! He told me that only 3 brakes were actually effective before this brake job, and I can definitely tell the difference. I remember I drove someone else's car and thought their brakes were tight, but they were probably actually correct and I was just used to driving on bad brakes!

I am happy with this fix. I did notice that he easily got the bracket on the other side off. He also said that the bad brake dust I was asking about may not be there anymore due to the new equipment, which makes me very happy!

I will get my transmission serviced and engine filter over my spring break. I really enjoy this mechanic!

Thanks for the help guys.

VVF

Great!
If he used OEM pads, you will have lots of brake dust though
Folks are using ceramic brake pads to avoid this annoyance.

ncmudbug

That's great! I'm glad everything worked out. It sounds he put ceramic pads on if he doesn't expect you to get the dust. I have ceramic pads on my cars and they're great!

SuperChargerE55

I rather have the brake dust than ceramic pads, tried that all 4 brakes on my CLK320 replaced with drilled ventilated discs and did 1 emergency brake and they are done, dealer I bought it from even confirmed, just a warning what u want braking power or less dust?
OEM Cause less wear on your brake rotors than performance aftermarket pads.
Ceramic pads offer quieter stops, cleaner wheels and generally longer pad life, while semi-metallic pads, produce more noise and dust, but are more effective over a wider range of temps.

Semi Metallic brake pads:
Produce more noise and dust than ceramic but are arguably the more versatile of the twoMore effective over a wider-range of temperatures and have a much higher thermal threshold

ncmudbug

I've been using Akebono ceramic pads on my 2005 & 2006 C230 and have had no problems, they stop well (though they do feel a bit different than the stock pads), the make no dust, they look like they'll last forever (they are over 50,000 miles old and have plenty of meat, and the disks seem like they'll last longer, too. They show no appreciable wear.

VVF

I'm on OEM pads, 45k miles - and still they have close to a half of the original thickness.
At this rate, not sure I will ever change the pads again on this car (but even if I do, I plan to just replace the pads, as rotors look ok, so likely will still get OEM pads).

Interesting though, ceramic pads are supposed to keep brake fluid cooler because they "insulate" the pistons from the heat of rotors... So I'd have thought you would get less brake fade in emergency situations.