Mapman

Monday afternoon I found a message from my dealer saying that my long lost Coupe (Orion/Oyster, C4, C5, C7, CD) is due to arrive on the 17th (fat lot of good a Sunday arrival does for me). Had this call come a month and a half ago, I would've been excited. Now I'm just thinking that I may tell them to **** off.

The car was ordered 10/26/01, and the salesman said "orders usually take 60-90 days". In hindsight, I should've asked if the order was going to go into the system immediately, or if it was going to be a later allocation. At the time I figured that I'd at least have the car for *part* of the winter. Also at the time there were no ather comparable cars - at least not to me. Now the Acura CL-S 6-speed is available (yes, it's FWD. Yes, it's kind of bland. No, it's not a Benz. But it is something of a bargain).

The end of winter takes away all of the pressure to sell my current car, and it's left me in a very conflicted state. I'm going to test drive the CL-S today or tomorrow, and if I like it, I may decide to buy it. On the other hand, the Coupe is a fine car in its own right, and my build-to-order car will (if the phone message was true) be here very soon. I'm not locked into anything - no deposit was given on the Coupe, and I'll admit to a bit of disappointment over the long delay. Further confusing the issue, I saw my first Orion Blue Coupe on the road yesterday, and it looked *good*.

Given the situation, what would you do? The "low-rent" Benz, or the hopped-up Accord? I can guess at the responses, but I'm lookin' to kill some time, here. So flame away.

harpax

Just get the coupe. When i was deciding which car to buy, the Acura CL was in my mind too. Back then, CL really appeal to me, but now I consider CL as "hopped up accord" like you said.

And beside, the coupe is Orion Blue.....get it
We need to expand our forces and fight back the comments like "that other blue color"

benzomonterey

I am a big fan of the CL-S, I would only reccomend getting one with the Nav system.

Is it just me or does anyone else think our coupe gauges resemble something from GM?. I wish Benz would have stuck with more traditional gauges.

Here is a side by side comparison of both models

MB CL comparison

sal

I haven't gotten my car yet but if they lie to me i would be pretty damn pissed, i wouldn't buy the car from them purely based on principals, as far as the acura, it's nice on the outside the engine is good but the quality of the interior is downright shameful. I'd try to get something else just to spite them maybe a bimmer ( i know i'm gonna hear it for that one) well in whatever you decide good luck and it sucks you had to wait so f@#$ing long.

raymond

I ahve read several posts on MBWorld and MBNZ that detail lengthy waiting periods for C230Ks

I bought mine from Park Place Mid Cities in Bedford, Texas. We walked in after having test driven the Volvo S40 Turbo and Jetta Turbo, test drove the Mercedes, and drove home with it that evening. What concerns me is that I wasn't even offered a "build to order" car.

I guess we could get it so easily because it will fit in the cargo bays of some of the wheeled behemoths that are so popular in Dallas, and hence it isn't so popular.

Cheers
Raymond

zimmer26

2 things held me back from getting the CL-S.
1. No manual (then)
2. A little large for my taste at this stage.

If you don't mind the length- I say do it- I might've done the same if my dealer jerked me over like that. I drove the auto about a year ago with a buddy of mine who was car shopping and was very surprised/impressed overall. I smoked the hell out of the front wheels w/o even meaning to! If I were a little older/mature the 6 speed CL-S (no nav!) would be my car and I think it can still be had under 30. We also drove the Volvo S60 T5 and Bimmers 325, and 330 the same day. Of those 4 the CL-S is by far the best value and bang for the buck. It is FWD and the interior was that cheesy black faux wood, but I think they've revamped it haven't they? I love my coupe, but man does that CL have some serious ***** and now stick= lighter, more aggressive gearing= possible sub 6 to 60- I find no fault with that decision if you go that way. Good luck mapman.

Buellwinkle

If I didn't get the C230 I would look at the Audi A4 for a better build quality and more comfort than the benz but not as much fun to drive or the Subaru WRX for sheer fun to drive. I have driven the Acuras and they are uncomfortable, the dash and inside materials look worse than straight off an Accord and handling was about as much fun as an Accord. They might do OK on a smooth skidpath but the rear end kicked out on me several times during hard cornering on rough (real world) surfaces. The transitions in a slalom where not quick enough and during really fast transitions the power steering cuts in and out. These are not a "drivers" car.

Rick

You've waited this long for the Benz, you may as well get what you really wanted in the first place.

raymond

I find it intersting that you rate the Audi A4's build quality better than that of a Mercedes.

I am from South Africa, and for years Mercedes was rated as the best built car, and Audi (we owned two) were pretty mediocre by comparison. In addition, they were extremely unreliable, and were basically jacked up VW's.

Has Audi improved so much?

It also may be a local quality problem - for years, South Africa had the only plants outside of the country of origin for many manufacturers - most notably MB and BMW. I believe that all Right Drive Cs are built in South Africa now.

Mike T.

Firstly, it seems to me that if you did not make a deposit, you have very little to complain about. You had no committment to the dealer so why would you expect something from them? Plus the salesman did say orders USUALLY take up to 90 days, so he was not wrong.

Maybe the dealer's higher priority was to get the orders of customers with REAL deposits in...which would be understandable in my opinion. Undoubtedly what happened was that they changed your "pseudo-order" mid-stream to suit paying customers, which is why "your" car took so long to get here.

Secondly, don't cut off your nose to spite your face. Meaning don't allow misdirected emotion about the "ordering" process to guide your decision on which car to purchase.

You're an adult - drive both cars and decide which one you like best. Oh, and if you want the Honda, be sure to place a deposit I wouldn't want you to get pi**ed at them too.

MarkL

Buellwinkle, I know you've talked about your previous Benz's having given you problems, but I can't remember what problems you've had w/ your C230K. I've "only" had my C240 for 7 months, but in my case, I can't find any fault with the build quality. I had a '99 Passat (cousin of Audi A4/A6), and it's build quality was excellent also. Maybe the newer Benz's are better than your older ones, and it's time to get a new outlook. Maybe not, just a thought

Buellwinkle

Actually I even think VWs are made better than MB and since an Audi is an upscale VW as Acura is an upscale Honda then that's a bonus. If you sit in an Audi A4 or A6 it seems more luxurios than an MB with a higher quality of materials and better fit and finish. There was an article in a recent US car magazine that compared the quality and fit and finish of the S-Class in comparison to Audi and BMW and little things like the power seat switch and seat base plastic sure made the MB look not much better than a Chevy. Yes VW and Audi have come a long way. One indicator is resale value. I've seen two to three year old turbo A4's in the newspaper for about 80% of sticker and that's for the previous body style. That's pretty good. Ten years ago the Audi would have been half that. Also look at VW, they are coming out with a larger car in the 50-60K price range that in the US would compete in price with an E320. Don't get me wrong, I like my MB, I just don't believe they are the best cars in the world. In my case the dealer is a mile from my house, the car was cheaper than a Acura CL and they do free car washes, and they are a sponsor for my city's parade and those were the big selling points for me.

raymond

Buellwinkle

After having installed the cd front loader in my C230K this week, I have to say that I was really impressed by the quality of the materials as well as the engineering of the centre console and radio mounting. I have done this for many people and many cars in my life, including Porsche, and I found the MB definitely superior.

That having been said, I am disappointed with the number of shop visits I've had to make. My wife's previous car was a Honda CRV, and it saw the shop for services only. My Ford Ranger likewise. So far out MB has spent more than 20 days in the shop, for wind noise to fuel pump failure. We only got it on 2 November 2001. It's due to return there on Thursday again, for the wind noise problem (starts to whistle at 80mph, or less in a head wind). THe only other car that I've ever owned that gave more trouble was a BMW 320i.

As far as VW Jetta goes, I think the interior appointments were cheap by comparison, although it would have been the second choice. What put me off was when we went over a railway level crossing at about 45mph - the suspension almost bottomed out, and the car behaved like a Jetta of old, suspension made intentionally softer to compensate for poor design.

All in my humble opinion, of course!

Mapman

Actually, when I asked if they'd like a deposit, the salesman said no - none was necessary. So this isn't an issue of me being a cheap-***. It's an issue of them being slightly less than completely forthcoming with me. My rather trusting nature when it comes to taking people at their word bit me on the ***, too.

And you have no idea whether I'm an adult or not.

Mike T.

It would be interesting to know if that dealer never takes deposits from anyone. If that's the case it is a strange business practice and I can see why you might be a little miffed.

You are an adult, right?

MB-BOB

You probably don't want to hear it but I agree with Mike T, from a slightly different angle. I don't think anyone is calling you a "cheap ***," certainly not me. But it's a simple matter... if you didn't have any skin in the game (deposit) then you have no leverage to make them move any faster, whether they require a deposit or not. I agree that the dealer should have told you that with a firmer order, they might have intercepted a car in a prior allotment and built it to order for you... quicker. I've learned here that almost all dealers do this. But of course, hindsight is always better, and I'm not throwing any rocks. We're all learning here.

Secondly, if you don't accept what what I've said above, please DO take the second part of MikeT.'s comments seriously. Above all else, DON'T let the dealer experience ruin your car ownership experience. Keep both processes mentally separate, and buy the car you want, (first) regardless of how any dealership treats you (second).

I always expect the worst from car dealers, and remind myself that the dealership part of the equation is short (albeit sometimes painfully so) compared to the long-term pleasure you hope to get from your car purchase. Once you have the car, you won't remember the salesmonkey's name in 6-weeks, regardless. You can always take your post-purchase business to another dealer, as some sort of satisfaction.

Whichever car you buy, plan to have a 15-minute laugh (and a beer) over the buying experience three months from now, then move on to resume having fun in your beautiful car, whichever one it turns out to be.

Mike T. I've agreed with the bulk of your comments, but I don't agree that his "adult" status (or not) is relevant.

tommy

As people have said, you pretty much have a clean slate now, so you might as well spend tomorrow checking all of the other options that are out there, including cl-s and a4. Actually, I just looked at the comparison link that someone had posted, and the cl-s' rear seat does not fold down, which would be a deal killer for me, no matter how much power it has (same for wrx sedan). It's also heavier that the Benz, if you can believe it.

I know that when I looked at the TL and sat down in it, my first thought was, "who hired the Buick design team?" I don't like it at all. But, different likes ...

If I were you, I would take this as an opportunity to reevaluate what I want and look at everything afresh.

As far as MB quality, I've had my car since late Sept., and have over 8k miles. It's been great (after the sunroof was fixed), and still feels as solid as new. I'm looking forward to keeping it for years.

zimmer26

Sound advice Tommy, and good point about the rear seat backs- I forgot about that one. Its not too hard to fathom that the CL-S weighs more- its got a much larger engine and its nearly 2 feet longer than the coupe!

Mapman

Well put. I agree with all that you wrote. It appears that I'm just a bit discombobulated about there being another viable alternative in the car buying picture. I almost forgot that I have a set of winter wheels & tires for the Benz, too - thanks to MBWorld board member Bagwell.

As to my adult status, I'd have to say that only others can make that call. Probably depends a lot on my mood at the time.

As a side note, I remember the names of almost all of the salespeople that I've dealt with over the years - the one exception is the guy that met my asking price right off the bat. Point of interest: My MB salesguy left the dealership over the winter.

I appreciate all of the responses, and my purpose has almost been served - quittin' time is only 65 minutes away!

Mike T.

You are right, it was a cheap shot in my first posting, but my underlying point was that he should make the decision on a sound basis. Sort of a common-sense, or even "adult" approach, if you will...

revstriker

I had a similar experience when I ordered my car. I ordered the C230 with C5 and C7 (of course) right around Halloween. I was told that it should go into production the second week in Nov. Well, when I called that week, I was told it had been delayed, and would go into production the first week in Dec. Called back in Dec, and... same thing. Delayed to January, with a delivery in March. Meanwhile, I had sold my car (got a very good cash offer), and I was carpooling with my wife. I asked the dealer if they could guarantee that it would not be delayed this time, and they couldn't. After talking with my wife, I decided to look at the C240. Took it for a test drive, and also test drove the C320. Ended up with the C320.

btw - I put down $1000 back in October. Also, a week after I picked up my car, I got a call from the dealer to tell me that the salesman that I had been dealing with had left the company.

Side note: I've VERY happy with the sedan, although I do miss the "fun" of driving a sporty 6 speed!

columbus

As a Benz owner, I'm Biased - one's a Benz, the other a Bargain.

tommy made a few good points:
- test drive 'em all
- heavier
- no folding seats (always been a dealbreaker to me)
- you're right, tommy: the interior *does* look like it's designed by Buick; I couldn't put my finger on it, but I was disappointed everytime I sat in one. That goes for the TL as well.

The Benz is so much fun to drive, I don't care what else is out there. But that's just me...

Oh, and last but not least - Dude, you're getting Orion-Blue

dasMafia

As the past owner of 4 hondas (2 acuras) and with in-laws driving a TL and MDX... get the MB.

the TL/CL just isn't that exciting to drive, even with all that HP... the ONLY reason I could think of to choose the CL is the seats. they are a lot better than the coupe in my opinion.

get a pully and software kit for the C230 and you will be almost as fast. the CL is overweight and some of the interior touches are a bit low-rent.

Mapman

Like I say, I'm very torn about this. With winter ending, the pressure is really off (to get rid of the S2000) for a while. My test for the CL-S is set for tomorrow - I'll be sure to be critical!

BTW, I dunno where the Buick comments are coming from. I sat in a TL-S at the Chicago Auto Show in February, and I thought that the interior was very nice, and it seemed nicely put together - IOW, a typical Honda. Very comparable to the C Coupes that I've tried on. Must be a taste thing!

MB-BOB

Hey, Mapman, let's think out of the box here. I got an idea that'll take that "pressure" off...

I've got a perfectly good FWD vehicle that just loves to play in the snow in the Winter, and you've got a perfectly good RWD S2000 that apparently craves to "Snowbird" it South each winter (Or maybe you can't figure how to raise that conv. top on it?)

Since I live in Dallas and you live in Northern Illinois, maybe we should just swap each Fall and back in the Spring. Yes? Who needs a MB or an Acura, really?

Yea, that's the ticket. With my Dodge Caravan Sport, you could even carpool it in the snow, use the high occupancy lanes in Chi-town, etc. Whaddya think? Huh? Huh? Huh?

Did I mention I was 50-years old and drive like Granny Goodrich? Your S2000 would never see any abuse, and I have a reserved parking spot at work and credit card numbers of both parkers to either side.

Think about it, really? It could happen, right? Huh?

(Don't dive in here, Revstriker, this was my idea. I though of it first. I don't care if you do have a 3-car garage in McKinney. You're further North than me... OK, so what if it's only a couple miles further North, it's still my idea, anyway, OK?)