greg230

half of them are mercedes specific

what i want is the TV tuner enabled on US comand sytems

Kar don

hate to burst your bubble but on all fords and toyotas, the top half of the switch locks and the bottom half unlocks. Is it that hard to get used to?

Mike E

How about speed sensitive variable assist power steering!!!! I can't believe that it's not already included.

Flashman

Just about every car on the market with P/S has speed-sensitive P/S... the C230 is among those... car's without that capability caused too many accidents in the 60's/70's for it not to be standard now (they were overcontrolled at higher speeds).

Mike E

When initially researching my purchase I noticed that the Mercedes Benz literature on the C-class does not indicate that the cars have speed sensitive variable assist power steeering. Every other car I looked at that had the feature indicated such in their literature. This prompted me to e-mail MBUSA and ask if the C-coupe had speed sensitive power steering. The response form MBUSA was that it does not. It seems to make sense that this is accurate when you consider the feel of the steering weight when driving. The steering feels unusually heavy below 5 (or maybe even up to 10) mph. Then above about 40 or 50 mph the steering feels lighter than it does between 10 and 40. I think the power assist that MB uses is well chosen in that it provides good, useable weighting throughout the entire speed range. However, the weighting doesn't feel the same throughout the entire speed range as a well tuned speed sensitve set up can feel. It seems to me that this would be a relatively easy and low cost way to make an improvement in the car.

PS: And yes, my experience is that virtually every car above 15K includes speed sensitve power steering. This is why I am very surprised that the C-class does not. Then look how long it took for MB to go to a rack and pinion set up from the recirculating ball. Also, I have noticed that some cars below 15K have power steering but not speed sensitve.

Flashman

I think we are talking two features... not one... speed sensitive power steering, and variable assist capability. I am not sure which is which. I do know the C230 and every other car has the one that "decreases P/S" with higher speed. But I agree with you, some fancier cars "increase P/S" at lower speeds to compensate... making low speed turning very smooth. I'm just not sure what the terminology for each feature is...

bagwell

for all who voted for moving the window switches.....where would you move them ????!!!!!

I think they're fine where they are.

tommy

Well, since you asked, my '83 900 S had two switches on the dash for the windows. They projected out from the dash, and were big enough so that you could even use them with gloves on. Best switch location that I've ever had.
An alternative would be to put them on the center console just behind the shift lever.
Or, relocate them so they're like on GTIs, within easy reach when your forearm is resting on the armrest.

Many possibilities; MB just picked one of the worst.

Mike E

Hopefuly someone more expert will chime in here and assist but I think that "speed sensitive power steering" is just an abreviated description of "speed sensitive variable assist power steering". I say this because even to decrease the P/S at high speed, by defintion, you would need to vary the amount of assist to accomplish this decrease. If the mechanism is in place to perform the decrease in power assist at certain speeds it could be used to increase it at certain speeds as well.

In the past, when power steering was new, the manufactuers touted it's virtue by claiming that a car so equipped could be manuvered (sp?) at parking lot speeds with one finger. A fixed power assist at all speeds set that high made the steering weight at highway speeds terribly light.

The difference in this case is that MB has chosen a much lower fixed power assist that is more effective over all of the operating speeds of the car. You certainly can't paralell park a C with one finger but that's because the amount of power assist is much lower than in the "old days". As a result the steering still provides good feel at highway speeds although it may be a little lighter than optimal.

PS: I just looked at the MBUSA web site and found that the specs for the E-class call out "rack and pinion speed sensitive power assist steering" and the C-class specs are described as "rack and pinion power assist steering".

galaxygrrl

Not on the dash, please. Just move 'em up to where the power seat switches are. And move those by the cup holder.

Beth

timorgan

I definately definately definately vote for a better phone system. Allow for more optional phones!! ie. GSM!!

Tim

MarkL

Huh? FYI, Mercedes' seat switches are some of the most copied and positively-reviewed controls around. If they're not on the door, they should be on the lower seat frame. In the center of the dash, I think, would be totally counter-intuitive. Power window switches on the console are also a bad idea, especially for a sedan. Check out the BMW location. Each switch is separately mounted far away from the others. It's impossible to operate more than one window at a time. They did this to save money for left/right drive models, I believe. IMO, once you get used to the "lowish" position on the door panel, they're OK. Switches mounted on the upper door panel would look more unfinished. My opinion, FWIW.

young

well, i too find the location of the window switches to be uncomfortable. maybe the sedan and coupes are different?

i have to sort of curve my hand back to get under the door handle, and hunt to find the switches unless i quick-glance. i also find myself leaning down to reach for them. but that's what i would call counter-intuitive. i don't mind the switches on the door somewhere; i just don't want to hunt for them nor go thru body/hand/arm contortions.

the bmw has all the switches on the center around the shifter. at first, i thought that was cumbersome too. but i find that logical now. my left hand drives, the right hand does everything else like shifting, opening windows, etc. i'm not saying that that's where i'd like the mb switches; just that i've grown accustomed to it and it's natural. so far, i'm still not used to the coupe's switches.

i don't know about being most copied though. i mean, there's 3 choices for the locations... door, center shifter area, dash (if you're tommy ) - basically, left side, in front and right side of the driver. and the door seems to be the most intuitively correct location. my acura had all the controls on the door arm rest where your left hand would naturally rest. that was comfortable to me mainly b/c i didn't normally rest my left arm on it but when i wanted to lower the window, i'd just move my arm over.

i am curious about the relocation of the switches that was reported by viper. 15mm up, i think? so i'd guess that the ergonomic design team decided that that would alleviate the situation.

while i'm sort of whining about petty things, i might as well as comment on the power seat adjustments. i find it disjunctive that there is nice trim (wood) but then there are these plastic little seat levers w/ rubber-like seals - not in the c-sedans. this is an example of why i find wood to be archaic. if it was aluminum or more plastic, it wouldn't look so odd to me. also, the natural position of those controls seem to be the side of the seat base...like the bmw or most cars that i've tried w/ power seat adjustments. i think all the mercs have the controls located there. and the higher end s, cl, etc has the wood trim there. i think it would look better if it was a smooth continuous surface especially if it's going to be wood.

just my 2 cents.

MarkL

The location is the same for the coupe and sedan, except, of course, there are 2 sets of buttons for the sedan. I typically open the windows in pairs, i.e., front first, then rear. I simply drop my hand to the armrest and push both front buttons at once to the desired position, then repeat for the rear. Having to negotiate around the BMW shifter and operate one at a time is a pain, IMO.

M-B "pioneered" the "seat profile" power seat controls on the door. You know, the buttons mimic the side view of the seat bottom and seat back. They have been described by many publications as being the most intuitive around. Other cars (including some GM models) copied that design, and I believe M-B tried to sue, but was unsuccessful.

young

you know what? being the car geek that i am :p, i grabbed and looked at the c catalog and i can see a couple of differences between the coupe and sedan. the controls are indeed located about the same place.

but the sedan has more space between the armrest door handle and the controls. the handle part curves more vertically on the sedan. so the coupe is much tighter. that's probably why i'm having to curve my hand to the back of the door handle.

it also looks like the control part is more perpendicular to the door plane on the coupe than on the sedan. so sedan owners don't have to move the hand underneath the handle as much to access the controls. but this could be just the pics...

and i just realized that i'm thinking too much about this...

greg230

no offense, i am embaressed that we have debated widow switch position for this long.

if we are that **** about window switches, we all must have a half dozen annoying pet peeves. I am amazed that we all have wives/husbands/girlfriends/significant others that put up with our largely innane ramblings....

Now i know why i like this place better then benzsport... we simply ***** and moan about problems with our cars, the folks at benzsport are probably working out how to relocate their window switches.