Help w/ Electrical Problem Please (Multi-Function Relay??)
10-03-2016, 10:26 PM
#1
Member
Thread Starter
Help w/ Electrical Problem Please (Multi-Function Relay??)
2002 C320 Wagon
85,000 total miles
I had to store my '02 C320 for 6mo w/o being able to start of drive it.
I put a new battery in it, and it started right up.
I had an "ESP Program" warning text after start, but the car drove perfectly.
Shut down the car after a 10mi drive, and used it again, and about 3min after this start, while driving, I got a "Brake Pad Wear Visit Shop/ESP Malfunction/ABS Malfunction/Gauge Cluster Malfunction??
I believe it also went into the Safe/Limp-Home mode as it lost considerable power or felt like I had a slightly dragging brake. The cluster transmission gear display did not show a selected gear, and the Summer/Winter window was blank, and selecting S/W did nothing.
I stopped, put the trans into park, but with the eng running, even with the brake pedal depressed, it would then not shift out of Park.
I shut off the engine, and re-started it, and all of the warnings were gone, and everything worked normally, so I drove off. We continued to a restaurant, had dinner, came out, and it's back to perfect again (no warnings and everything works), so I KNOW all of the warnings are related, and that there is probably NOTHING really "wrong" with the car mechanically to deserve the warnings.
I am 1500 miles from home (and scheduled to drive home Wednesday morning), but I called my MB Tech back home and he said there is a LARGE (like 1"X3") "Multi-Function Relay" that controls all of those functions, and he has seen a FEW times after cars have sat a long time, it causes exactly those symptoms as I have.
He thought in many models it was by the battery (above the passenger's knees), but there is no box there in my car I can find. The only box near there is a junction box by the battery w/ a red cap that can be lifted to reveal a contact that is connected to the battery + Contact, but there are no relays or fuses inside.
On the driver's side, there is a fuse/relay box in the eng compartment above the drivers left knee next to the brake fluid reservoir, but the relays in there are the standard DIN size (about 1"X1").
He said the ABS, ESP and Brake Sensors all involve this relay, and the speedo is also controlled by it, and that it can be cleaned, or better yet replaced, but I need to find it, but of course, if anyone has a better idea of what could cause this, please chime in!
Naturally, I am reluctant to start a 1500mi trip as the car is now, and would at least CHANGE that relay if my model has it, and I can find it.
Thanks, guys,
Bob
In addition, the di
85,000 total miles
I had to store my '02 C320 for 6mo w/o being able to start of drive it.
I put a new battery in it, and it started right up.
I had an "ESP Program" warning text after start, but the car drove perfectly.
Shut down the car after a 10mi drive, and used it again, and about 3min after this start, while driving, I got a "Brake Pad Wear Visit Shop/ESP Malfunction/ABS Malfunction/Gauge Cluster Malfunction??
I believe it also went into the Safe/Limp-Home mode as it lost considerable power or felt like I had a slightly dragging brake. The cluster transmission gear display did not show a selected gear, and the Summer/Winter window was blank, and selecting S/W did nothing.
I stopped, put the trans into park, but with the eng running, even with the brake pedal depressed, it would then not shift out of Park.
I shut off the engine, and re-started it, and all of the warnings were gone, and everything worked normally, so I drove off. We continued to a restaurant, had dinner, came out, and it's back to perfect again (no warnings and everything works), so I KNOW all of the warnings are related, and that there is probably NOTHING really "wrong" with the car mechanically to deserve the warnings.
I am 1500 miles from home (and scheduled to drive home Wednesday morning), but I called my MB Tech back home and he said there is a LARGE (like 1"X3") "Multi-Function Relay" that controls all of those functions, and he has seen a FEW times after cars have sat a long time, it causes exactly those symptoms as I have.
He thought in many models it was by the battery (above the passenger's knees), but there is no box there in my car I can find. The only box near there is a junction box by the battery w/ a red cap that can be lifted to reveal a contact that is connected to the battery + Contact, but there are no relays or fuses inside.
On the driver's side, there is a fuse/relay box in the eng compartment above the drivers left knee next to the brake fluid reservoir, but the relays in there are the standard DIN size (about 1"X1").
He said the ABS, ESP and Brake Sensors all involve this relay, and the speedo is also controlled by it, and that it can be cleaned, or better yet replaced, but I need to find it, but of course, if anyone has a better idea of what could cause this, please chime in!
Naturally, I am reluctant to start a 1500mi trip as the car is now, and would at least CHANGE that relay if my model has it, and I can find it.
Thanks, guys,
Bob
In addition, the di
Last edited by bobinyelm; 10-04-2016 at 12:16 AM.
10-03-2016, 10:40 PM
#2
2002 C320 Wagon
85,000 total miles
I had to store my '02 C320 for 6mo w/o being able to start of drive it.
I put a new battery in it, and it started right up.
I had an "ESP Program" warning text after start, but the car drove perfectly.
Shut down the car after a 10mi drive, and used it again, and about 3min after this start, while driving, I got a "Brake Sensor" flashing warning, with a "Get the car to the dealer" text, the ABS light was illuminated, and the Speedometer went to Zero and stayed there. I also had an "Instrument Cluster Failure" text. I believe it also went into the Safe/Limp-Home mode as it lost considerable power. The cluster transmission gear display did not show a selected gear, and the Summer/Winter window was blank, and selecting S/W did nothing.
I stopped, put the trans into park, but with the eng running, even with the brake pedal depressed, it would then not shift out of Park.
I shut off the engine, and re-started it, and all of the warnings were gone, and everything worked normally, so I drove off. We continued to a restaurant, had dinner, came out, and it's back to perfect again (no warnings and everything works), so I KNOW all of the warnings are related, and that there is probably NOTHING really "wrong" with the car mechanically to deserve the warnings.
I am 1500 miles from home (and scheduled to drive home Wednesday morning), but I called my MB Tech back home and he said there is a LARGE (like 1"X3") "Multi-Function Relay" that controls all of those functions, and he has seen a FEW times after cars have sat a long time, it causes exactly those symptoms as I have.
He thought in many models it was by the battery (above the passenger's knees), but there is no box there in my car I can find. The only box near there is a junction box by the battery w/ a red cap that can be lifted to reveal a contact that is connected to the battery + Contact, but there are no relays or fuses inside.
On the driver's side, there is a fuse/relay box in the eng compartment above the drivers left knee next to the brake fluid reservoir, but the relays in there are the standard DIN size (about 1"X1").
He said the ABS, ESP and Brake Sensors all involve this relay, and the speedo is also controlled by it, and that it can be cleaned, or better yet replaced, but I need to find it, but of course, if anyone has a better idea of what could cause this, please chime in!
Naturally, I am reluctant to start a 1500mi trip as the car is now, and would at least CHANGE that relay if my model has it, and I can find it.
Thanks, guys,
Bob
In addition, the di
85,000 total miles
I had to store my '02 C320 for 6mo w/o being able to start of drive it.
I put a new battery in it, and it started right up.
I had an "ESP Program" warning text after start, but the car drove perfectly.
Shut down the car after a 10mi drive, and used it again, and about 3min after this start, while driving, I got a "Brake Sensor" flashing warning, with a "Get the car to the dealer" text, the ABS light was illuminated, and the Speedometer went to Zero and stayed there. I also had an "Instrument Cluster Failure" text. I believe it also went into the Safe/Limp-Home mode as it lost considerable power. The cluster transmission gear display did not show a selected gear, and the Summer/Winter window was blank, and selecting S/W did nothing.
I stopped, put the trans into park, but with the eng running, even with the brake pedal depressed, it would then not shift out of Park.
I shut off the engine, and re-started it, and all of the warnings were gone, and everything worked normally, so I drove off. We continued to a restaurant, had dinner, came out, and it's back to perfect again (no warnings and everything works), so I KNOW all of the warnings are related, and that there is probably NOTHING really "wrong" with the car mechanically to deserve the warnings.
I am 1500 miles from home (and scheduled to drive home Wednesday morning), but I called my MB Tech back home and he said there is a LARGE (like 1"X3") "Multi-Function Relay" that controls all of those functions, and he has seen a FEW times after cars have sat a long time, it causes exactly those symptoms as I have.
He thought in many models it was by the battery (above the passenger's knees), but there is no box there in my car I can find. The only box near there is a junction box by the battery w/ a red cap that can be lifted to reveal a contact that is connected to the battery + Contact, but there are no relays or fuses inside.
On the driver's side, there is a fuse/relay box in the eng compartment above the drivers left knee next to the brake fluid reservoir, but the relays in there are the standard DIN size (about 1"X1").
He said the ABS, ESP and Brake Sensors all involve this relay, and the speedo is also controlled by it, and that it can be cleaned, or better yet replaced, but I need to find it, but of course, if anyone has a better idea of what could cause this, please chime in!
Naturally, I am reluctant to start a 1500mi trip as the car is now, and would at least CHANGE that relay if my model has it, and I can find it.
Thanks, guys,
Bob
In addition, the di
10-03-2016, 11:35 PM
#3
Member
Thread Starter
Hmmm...
It's a brand new battery and is fully charged. The engine spins over like a turbine when the key is turned, so I don't think it's the battery.
The bat voltage with the ignition OFF is 12.4v, and immediately after start is 14.11v
The dealer is close, but we are scheduled to leave in 36 hours, and though I can TRY to get an appt, I suspect I won't get in tomorrow to have it checked.
I put a Generic (Autel MS-509) OBD II Scanner on the car and it showed no current codes, but 3 Pending Codes (P0600, Serial Communications Failure).
Right now the car instrument display shows "No Malfunctions" so obviously this is an intermittent condition.
A look-up for P0600 for MB says: "This is not a fault with the system, but with control of the system itself. Experience has proven that a poor connection or failed ECM driver is the root cause of this code. For the most part, the ECM acts as a ground to control these components and modules as opposed to supplying power to them."
Given that this problem has just popped up since putting the car back into service, I tend to believe it's related, and may be a poor connection somewhere? w/in just a few miles
I would imagine that the MB Star computer would better pinpoint a problem? Can it pin point the exact point of "Communications Fault" even if it is not thowing a MIL, but only a PO0600 PENDING fault now, or does the actually fault need to be showing to be diagnostically stored for the Star reader to read the specific system flaw??
Doing a Google search, some mention the LF ABS speed sensor as being tied to the ABS, ESC, and the Speedo Cluster (all of which were showing problems until they all went away).
It's a brand new battery and is fully charged. The engine spins over like a turbine when the key is turned, so I don't think it's the battery.
The bat voltage with the ignition OFF is 12.4v, and immediately after start is 14.11v
The dealer is close, but we are scheduled to leave in 36 hours, and though I can TRY to get an appt, I suspect I won't get in tomorrow to have it checked.
I put a Generic (Autel MS-509) OBD II Scanner on the car and it showed no current codes, but 3 Pending Codes (P0600, Serial Communications Failure).
Right now the car instrument display shows "No Malfunctions" so obviously this is an intermittent condition.
A look-up for P0600 for MB says: "This is not a fault with the system, but with control of the system itself. Experience has proven that a poor connection or failed ECM driver is the root cause of this code. For the most part, the ECM acts as a ground to control these components and modules as opposed to supplying power to them."
Given that this problem has just popped up since putting the car back into service, I tend to believe it's related, and may be a poor connection somewhere? w/in just a few miles
I would imagine that the MB Star computer would better pinpoint a problem? Can it pin point the exact point of "Communications Fault" even if it is not thowing a MIL, but only a PO0600 PENDING fault now, or does the actually fault need to be showing to be diagnostically stored for the Star reader to read the specific system flaw??
Doing a Google search, some mention the LF ABS speed sensor as being tied to the ABS, ESC, and the Speedo Cluster (all of which were showing problems until they all went away).
10-04-2016, 12:11 AM
#4
Hmmm...
It's a brand new battery and is fully charged. The engine spins over like a turbine when the key is turned, so I don't think it's the battery.
The bat voltage with the ignition OFF is 12.4v, and immediately after start is 14.11v
The dealer is close, but we are scheduled to leave in 36 hours, and though I can TRY to get an appt, I suspect I won't get in tomorrow to have it checked.
I put a Generic (Autel MS-509) OBD II Scanner on the car and it showed no current codes, but 3 Pending Codes (P0600, Serial Communications Failure).
Right now the car instrument display shows "No Malfunctions" so obviously this is an intermittent condition.
A look-up for P0600 for MB says: "This is not a fault with the system, but with control of the system itself. Experience has proven that a poor connection or failed ECM driver is the root cause of this code. For the most part, the ECM acts as a ground to control these components and modules as opposed to supplying power to them."
Given that this problem has just popped up since putting the car back into service, I tend to believe it's related, and may be a poor connection somewhere? w/in just a few miles
I would imagine that the MB Star computer would better pinpoint a problem? Can it pin point the exact point of "Communications Fault" even if it is not thowing a MIL, but only a PO0600 PENDING fault now, or does the actually fault need to be showing to be diagnostically stored for the Star reader to read the specific system flaw??
Doing a Google search, some mention the LF ABS speed sensor as being tied to the ABS, ESC, and the Speedo Cluster (all of which were showing problems until they all went away).
It's a brand new battery and is fully charged. The engine spins over like a turbine when the key is turned, so I don't think it's the battery.
The bat voltage with the ignition OFF is 12.4v, and immediately after start is 14.11v
The dealer is close, but we are scheduled to leave in 36 hours, and though I can TRY to get an appt, I suspect I won't get in tomorrow to have it checked.
I put a Generic (Autel MS-509) OBD II Scanner on the car and it showed no current codes, but 3 Pending Codes (P0600, Serial Communications Failure).
Right now the car instrument display shows "No Malfunctions" so obviously this is an intermittent condition.
A look-up for P0600 for MB says: "This is not a fault with the system, but with control of the system itself. Experience has proven that a poor connection or failed ECM driver is the root cause of this code. For the most part, the ECM acts as a ground to control these components and modules as opposed to supplying power to them."
Given that this problem has just popped up since putting the car back into service, I tend to believe it's related, and may be a poor connection somewhere? w/in just a few miles
I would imagine that the MB Star computer would better pinpoint a problem? Can it pin point the exact point of "Communications Fault" even if it is not thowing a MIL, but only a PO0600 PENDING fault now, or does the actually fault need to be showing to be diagnostically stored for the Star reader to read the specific system flaw??
Doing a Google search, some mention the LF ABS speed sensor as being tied to the ABS, ESC, and the Speedo Cluster (all of which were showing problems until they all went away).
10-04-2016, 12:27 AM
#6
Member
Thread Starter
Brake Pad Wear Visit Shop/ESP Malfunction/ABS Malfunction/Gauge Cluster Malfunction
The ABS light was on, the Speedo was dead, the W/S and transmission gear annunciator on the cluster was out (lighted but not indicating anything). The gearshift lever, after being moved to Park would not shift into any gear until after the engine was shut off and re-started. It almost felt like a brake was very slightly dragging (though it seemed to coast OK, but maybe this was because it went into limp-home mode, but nothing said it was-it only felt like it was in 3rd gear w/ no power, though the engine was smooth?).
After I re-started the car they ALL went away, and the car was completely normal, so I only got to look at them for a few seconds.
Now, of course, the cluster shows "No Malfunctions" and the Generic scanner shows NO Codes, but it does show P0600 "Communication Link Error" as a PENDING FAULT (stored in the pending fault page "pending"3 times).
We are presently in Tempe, AZ (though about to drive to Olympia, WA). I found an independent shop that has good customer reviews and will call them tomorrow, thoug given we're scheduled to leave Wed at 4am, it may be a problem.
I can't help thinking it had something to do with either:
The dead battery and battery change, or
The fact it had sat undriven for 6mo (in a garage).
Last edited by bobinyelm; 10-04-2016 at 12:42 AM.
10-04-2016, 12:33 AM
#7
I didn't write them down but it was close to:
Brake Pad Wear Visit Shop/ESP Malfunction/ABS Malfunction/Gauge Cluster Malfunction
After I re-started the car they went away, so I only got to look at them for a few seconds.
Now, of course, it shows "No Malfunctions" and the Generic scanner shows NO Codes, but it does show P0600 "Communication Link Error" as a PENDING FAULT (3 times)
Brake Pad Wear Visit Shop/ESP Malfunction/ABS Malfunction/Gauge Cluster Malfunction
After I re-started the car they went away, so I only got to look at them for a few seconds.
Now, of course, it shows "No Malfunctions" and the Generic scanner shows NO Codes, but it does show P0600 "Communication Link Error" as a PENDING FAULT (3 times)
Trending Topics
10-04-2016, 01:05 AM
#9
Member
Thread Starter
You are 100% correct that I did NOT re-sinc the steering w/ the battery replacement.
OK, do you think I should do the re-sync with the steering wheel on an unpaved surface (so I won't scrub off my tires) at this point? Is it lock-to-lock 5 times?
Or are you saying that because it NOW shows "No Malfunction" in the display it shouldn't need it, and all is really well?
Is it strange that I didn't get all the dire warnings until several miles and a few engine starts after installing the new battery? The only warning I got immediately after installing the battery was the "ESP Program" text. The big-time warnings and cluster/speedo problem warnings didn't happen until after maybe the 3rd start and maybe 10-12mi after the battery change, and I was driving straight ahead at 30mph when they started.
I remember changing the battery about 5 years ago and had none of these problems-was I just lucky that time?
I must admit I am feeling a bit "snake-bit" given I am far-from-home and scheduled to drive 1500 miles starting Wed morning. I guess I am looking for a bit of reassurance the car will make it home.
The vehicle has been so flawless hat it kind or threw me when it started acting up.
OK, do you think I should do the re-sync with the steering wheel on an unpaved surface (so I won't scrub off my tires) at this point? Is it lock-to-lock 5 times?
Or are you saying that because it NOW shows "No Malfunction" in the display it shouldn't need it, and all is really well?
Is it strange that I didn't get all the dire warnings until several miles and a few engine starts after installing the new battery? The only warning I got immediately after installing the battery was the "ESP Program" text. The big-time warnings and cluster/speedo problem warnings didn't happen until after maybe the 3rd start and maybe 10-12mi after the battery change, and I was driving straight ahead at 30mph when they started.
I remember changing the battery about 5 years ago and had none of these problems-was I just lucky that time?
I must admit I am feeling a bit "snake-bit" given I am far-from-home and scheduled to drive 1500 miles starting Wed morning. I guess I am looking for a bit of reassurance the car will make it home.
The vehicle has been so flawless hat it kind or threw me when it started acting up.
Last edited by bobinyelm; 10-04-2016 at 01:11 AM.
10-05-2016, 01:29 AM
#10
Member
Thread Starter
Update-
I drove the car around over 100mi today, and it performed flawlessly.
I feel much more confident leaving on my 1500mi trip tomorrow.
Thanks for all suggestions!
I drove the car around over 100mi today, and it performed flawlessly.
I feel much more confident leaving on my 1500mi trip tomorrow.
Thanks for all suggestions!
10-06-2016, 11:28 PM
#11
Member
Thread Starter
Final Post:
Just got in from the 1500mi drive.
Car performed flawlessly w/o a hic-up.
Amazingly, not re-syncing the steering immediately after battery replacement (the last time I guess it self-synced when I backed out of my garage, then turned to leave) cause MUCH more trouble than I anticipated, including flashing several warnings, putting the car into safe, limp mode, and finally locking the car in park.
Phew! I thought maybe sitting for 6mo had actually caused some damage (like inducing poor electrical connections, maybe a rodent eating through some wires, etc).
Thanks to the "knowbenz" for his help!
Just got in from the 1500mi drive.
Car performed flawlessly w/o a hic-up.
Amazingly, not re-syncing the steering immediately after battery replacement (the last time I guess it self-synced when I backed out of my garage, then turned to leave) cause MUCH more trouble than I anticipated, including flashing several warnings, putting the car into safe, limp mode, and finally locking the car in park.
Phew! I thought maybe sitting for 6mo had actually caused some damage (like inducing poor electrical connections, maybe a rodent eating through some wires, etc).
Thanks to the "knowbenz" for his help!
10-07-2016, 12:43 AM
#12
Final Post:
Just got in from the 1500mi drive.
Car performed flawlessly w/o a hic-up.
Amazingly, not re-syncing the steering immediately after battery replacement (the last time I guess it self-synced when I backed out of my garage, then turned to leave) cause MUCH more trouble than I anticipated, including flashing several warnings, putting the car into safe, limp mode, and finally locking the car in park.
Phew! I thought maybe sitting for 6mo had actually caused some damage (like inducing poor electrical connections, maybe a rodent eating through some wires, etc).
Thanks to the "knowbenz" for his help!
Just got in from the 1500mi drive.
Car performed flawlessly w/o a hic-up.
Amazingly, not re-syncing the steering immediately after battery replacement (the last time I guess it self-synced when I backed out of my garage, then turned to leave) cause MUCH more trouble than I anticipated, including flashing several warnings, putting the car into safe, limp mode, and finally locking the car in park.
Phew! I thought maybe sitting for 6mo had actually caused some damage (like inducing poor electrical connections, maybe a rodent eating through some wires, etc).
Thanks to the "knowbenz" for his help!
