dasMafia

OK, I'm in the market for a new car, gotta have 2-doors, gotta have panache, gotta be RELIABLE, and its gotta be comfortable for the long haul.

I've looked at the C230K in the past, but wrote it off because I hated the 6-speed so much (it really does suck if you're used to BMW and Acura). But, tinthe past weeks, I've come to realize that the auto would be OK if it was accompanied by the right equipment (K2, C7, C2, C4). so anyway, I was curious what you thought of the C230 (I think i know) and the other cars on the list...

2002 C230K...
C2, C4, C7, K2, Leather, Auto, Teleaid

2002 BMW 325Ci...
5-speed, Cold-Weather, Harman Kardon, Xenons, Sunroof (add homelink as accessory)

2002 Audi TT Coupe...
180hp, Quattro, "alcantara leather" steering wheel, 17s, Xenons, Homelink, Heated seats

what do you guys think about this dilemma??? I relaly like the BMW (fastest, sportiest), my wife likes the Audi (best aesthetics, best panache, AWD!), and her boss is really pushing me towards the benz (he has 3: '99 ML320, '93 300E, 82? 450SL)

I'm worried about the reliability of the Audi, the long-term desirability of the Benz (am i gonna want something bigger soon), and the BMW just seems to attract all the wrong attention.

PS. I'm a Financial Planner/Advisor (working toward "Broker") and I am regularly seen at Country Club functions and social gatherings and also shuttle clients about quite often. I'm also 23, married, DINK (double income no kids). I'd also like to drive the car on open-track days too.

any pertinent information about drivability, reliability, or comfort in any of these would be helpful. also, can I modify (say Wetterhaur (SP?)?) and not void the warranty?

tommy

Unless it's done by Brabus, I think. Chipping it will definitely kill the warranty.

If you're planning on having kids or carrying anything larger than a toothbrush, I'd stay away from the tt, as it's much smaller than the other two alternatives.

The options that you list are on the expensive side for the Benz. Teleaid is generally considered ok if it's free (damn pennypinchers at MB), but not worth it if it's not. I was driving my car back from my parents' house (good free food is worth the "why aren't you married yet" nagging), and was thinking of how much nicer the 6-speed has gotten with almost 3k on the odo. If possible, try to drive someone's car in your area who has had theirs awhile. I swear, 2-3 shifting has gotten much better, so don't immediately discount the 6-speed.

The BMW is a nice car, though it's still more expensive than a comparably-equipped c230. Plus, you get much more hauling room in the hatch of the c230. Tie-up: panorama roof of c230 vs. pop-out rear windows of the ci. I like the interior of the MB better - I've always thought of a coffin when I think of BMW interiors. I'd say to take long testdrives on both, one shortly after the other, and use that to decide.

Daez_Nutz

In general, I prefer MB to other makers. However, out of those three I would undoubtedly go with the Audi TT. I assume it comes with the 1.8T engine. That is the single most tuneable engine I've ever come across. You can easily juice it up to 235 hp with a chip and some minor engine mods. Even just a chip upgrade is good for at least 200 hp and 220 lb/ft of torque. All this extra power will put the AWD to good use (180 hp is far too little for Quattro, in my opinion). So there's your performance issue resolved. A juiced up TT should definitely trounce both the C230K and 325Ci. Aesthetically, the TT wins again, in my book. Even now, it's quite the head turner.

Lynn

The key words in your post are "shuttle clients around quite often". None of these cars is right for you, if that phrase is accurate. Your clients will not be amused climbing into the back seat of the C230K, or the 325Ci, and we won't mention the TT.

Who says you can't have fun with a four door on the street or on the track? IMO you should give some consideration to the C240, 325i and A4. Who knows, maybe a little practicality now will pay off with an SLK 32 or an M Coupe in a few years when your a big time broker.

MarkL

Lynn, exactly my thoughts. I'm glad I read further down before banging out my response.

DasMafia, if you take clients, and are seen around the country club, go with a sedan. The C240 6-speed may be a nice compromise. I suggest "skipping over" the coupes and go right to your "next car". Just my $.02!

young

my understanding is that you would like a sporty coupe first, and you may occasionally have a client (singular) in the car w/ you. so, i assume you're willing to take that compromise of client comfort. pure panache, right?

you may want to think about the 330ci (more power) and the tt roadster (my first choice of the three cars). the roadster does not have rear seats (and it may look like it does but, neither does the coupe :p ). my brother in law has a 325ci, manual, and he's complains a little about its lack of power. but a bmw is so popular among yuppies/dinks - blah.

Flashman

If you are shuttling clients around, you are better off looking at leasing something like a Lincoln LS and replacing it every 2-3 years, to keep it new. Tons of rear space and "corporate" luxury, along with a very smooth plush ride that business clients love.

I prefer my approach. Just blow off your clients (trust me not that hard, most clients have larger cars, it never was a problem with my Miata, I just mention what I drive, and we always take their car!), then you are pretty free to choose anything. So far it hasn't affected my job, most clients love showing off their car, even if it is a rental.

I don't know why you don't like 6-speed on C Coupe. Have you tried it? I think it is highly under-rated. I have had a Miata for almost 10 years now, which Motor Trend and Car & Driver rate as one of the best "toggle-like" shifters around, and I was suprised to discover that I really LIKE the shifter on the C Coupe. I found it very "toggle-like" and very smooth. What other's complain as "rubbery" I found to be more a feeling of "precision" and good engineering. I don't need or care for the the raw metal-on-metal grinding feel of an RSX or BMW shifter to feel sporty (makes me feel something is wearing down and wasn't lubricated properly at the factory). I personally think that "feel" is somewhat trendy/gimmicky. I know where the gears are and what gear I want. I prefer it be smooth and clean. The C Coupe is smooth and clean. :o

Rick

Lynn

Flashman, I like the way you think.

dasMafia, the shifter on the Coupe needs 200 or 300 miles of street driving to be broken in. It feels entirely different after it is broken in. When I first got my car shifting to 2nd required a substatial pull, and resulted in a loud cluck. Now it is smooth and soundless.

That should be clunk, but cluck was just to funny to change.

dasMafia

I almost exclusively shuttle around clients in groups of 1, so I can get away with the coupe... additionally, if more space is needed I borrow my wife's CR-V, my In-Laws MDX or 3.2TL or 93, or my moms Grand Cherokee... I also have this neurosis about 4-doors... and if i were to get a 4-door, the MB would be out of the question as TOO SLOW!

I also just drove an A4 and it really didn't do it for me, the interior is too "VW" for my tastes.

to the rest of you, I'd love to get a 330 or TT roadster, but thats beyond the available $$$$$, so they get lopped off... the other thing that bugs me about the TT is the warranty getting voided if I even TOUCH the car... they are REALLY pissy about that stuff.

I drove 6-speed C230s three times and each time it seemed to get more aggravating... of course I own an integra... which doesn't help a whole lot. The clutch pedal is actually more annoying than the shifter, it feels springy and it totally moves in the wrong arc for a short-legged dude like me. the shifter's biggest problem is that the throw is too long, and it feels a little vague, buts its not much worse than VW or Toyota. I like the automatic in this car too, the C230 doesn't inpart any sense of urgency or anxiety, and the tranny fits it well that way, and with the torque band of the engine, the extra gears and extra control doesn't add much to the experience.

for those of you with C230s, have the cars gotten quicker as they have broken in, and is it possible to spin the back tires??? (a little spin helps launching at the strip...).

OK, so next question, how's the leather in the C230?? (still haven't seen one without that hideous cloth)

PS. MarkL.... my "next car" will be a 540i 6-speed! (or maybe a used NSX....)

PPS. the other reason I'd never buy a sedan for me is that my wife has arthritis (diagnosed at age 20), and basically can't have kids... so not a lot of need for the back-seat space, if we take friends, we take her car!

Iceman's C230

O.K So far you have complained about all the three cars you wanted. Is there any one of these car's (Audi TT, BMW. C230) In perticular that stands out that you actually like? Maybe might be a starting point.

gab

where are you located?

one thing I dont like BMW is that they are as common as Honda Civic here in Bay Area.

I think you should strongly consider a 330ci as 330 offer more stuff as standard. Not worth getting Leather on BMW as not much difference.

Also TT 225hp is hell of a different car as 180hp and Quattro is standard on the coupe.

The 6speed on the MB gets better when broken in, though not as good as BMW but its not that bad.

If you couldnt get 330 or TT225 I would rather get the

tommy

Cost alot, but you know how MB hits you on the options.

The biggest news is MB-BOB saying that he has more than one friend.

My c230 seems a bit quicker now vs. when I bought it. As I said previously, the manny feels much better now. I haven't tried to spin the rear tires yet. As an owner of the "hideous cloth", I don't know much about the leather. I couldn't wait for it, and didn't like either color choice anyway. Just so you know, aftermarket leather is about the same price as buying MB's, assuming that you don't get c5.

Rick

Hmmmm....there's a switch on my dash panel above the radio....is that for "cluck u" and "cluck off" selections?

Hmmmm....

Ok, on a serious note, if you're considering C2 (roof and rain sensor) and leather...why not opt for the C5 and get the Bose system at very little cost?

Tommy et al are correct: C7 is a great value (even if I don't like bumpy pedal covers)and the coupe's back seat is still roomier than the beemer or the Audi...

BMW - I didn't like the local dealer, as they seemed more interested in reading the local paper than selling cars

Audi TT = Audi Too Tiny (just my humble opinion) and the dealer actually compared it to the Karmann Ghia...and I quote "This car is to the new beetle what the Karmann Ghia was to the old Bug"...I walked away shaking my head.

Lynn

Clucking is an undocumented MB feature for chicken drivers. The older I get, the faster I was.

dasMafia

Thanks for the continued input...

Iceman: I have "complained" about each car, but none of the things I mentioned is enough to take the car out of consideration (you have no idea how picky and ****-retentive I am... It's not pretty!) I like certain things about each car too:

TT: panache, attention from the Valets, pretty rare out here (lincoln, NE), QUATTRO is very nice for the bloody snow (that started last night by the way), and the little turbo motor is "different." I also like the interior more than anything else about the car, it is the most comfortable car I've sat in in a long time (OK, that new 740 was pretty smooth too), and MY WIFE LIKES IT (which no matter what any of us says, can make a huge difference in this process... it happens to be comfortable for her with her Arthritis, which is rare. This car fits my alter-ego too, the part of me burried deep that wants the attention and that wants to be "the stud" and get all the girls. I also think it is simply distinctive and impartst the image that the owner is independent and successful, if not adventurous and fun-loving.

C230: I love the look, and the image it projects (if that makes me a little shallow, so be it), the auto would be nice in traffic, but my commute is 5-miles round trip...so not really an issue. I like the safety features and all the features available (teleaid, K2a...) and PANORAMA IS SWEET!. the car is very quiet and comfortable to drive, (although the seat is the worst of the bunch... but still good enough). Its also NOT a BMW, which is nice as BMWs are more common here (although still fairly rare... especially the coupes) and BMWs tend to project a "look at me!" image that I don't find necessary. I have always been a bit understated in my taste (I'm still pissed about the Brooks Brothers make-over.... give me back the old stores!) and I think the MB is a better fit for my personality and lifestyle. I also am going through a midlife crisis at age 23 (go figure), so I dislike that the MB is so stoic and so reserved and I think it makes me feel like a more boring individual... any thoughts on that one?

325Ci: wow, thats all, just wow. the driving experience is far beyond the others, its faster, more lithe, and more responsive and communicative. the interior is very nice (lightyears ahead of the previous generation, and the manual tranny is devine! The seats are good (either sport or standard), the Harman Kardon upgraded stereo is "I'm not worthy" quality (the MB and Audi BOSE systems blow ***... imho). the engine makes all the right sounds (something the MB really sucks at), and it does posses the more formal profile of a proper coupe (if I could afford a CLK, this discussion would be over). Its also a little bigger overall and has a warranty and service package on par with the rest in the group. The BMW has most of the goodies the MB has (sans Teleaid) and that is nice, but they are just as expensive. The BMW is also the easiest to modify as they have an affordable "native tuner" in Dinan that is covered uner the warranty. This is also the easiest car to put on a racetrack by far.

Dealers and Dealer Experiences: MB and BMW are the same in lincoln, and they're crooked... I'd buy either of those cars in Omaha (Markel BMW... don't know MB dealer) or Kansas City(Baron BMW, Aristocrat Motors MB). Audi has a dealer in Omaha that seemed to be a little high on price, but not too bad. service would be an issue as I'd rather not drive an hour to get service, but I can deal with it.

Other stuff: oddly enough, the BMW is the cheapest of the bunch to lease (its a tax write-off and leasing works better), the MB is the most expensive (even though it has the lowest MSRP). The other thing that I have noticed is that most of these dealers are brutally gouging. I got estimates from $75-$150 a month higher than audiusa.com, bmwusa.com and mbusa.com. and this bothers me, only Baron BMW in KC has not done this, and they are actually below bmwusa. BMW and MB also have pretty good ownership benefits and active clubs around here.

any more comments, things I missed etc...

I'd reitterate that the 330 is out of range (as is the C320) and the 330 doesn't come with a lot more standard equip.. only 17s (ugly ones too) and the H/K sound system, no leather, no roof, this is different on the sedans where the 330 gets you an armrest, trip computer, H/K, 17s, and some other stuffnot onthe 325.

keep the comments rolling... this is really helpful.

greg230

but you can snag a very nice star mark preowned clk for jsut a few grand more then a new coupe or 3 series.

its 2 door, it has panache, its got a warranty, and its a tad more at home at a country club then the more racey, agressive c230

greg

Mike T.

Yeah the CLK is sweet, in my opinion it's the best-looking M-B at the moment, though the C sedan comes close. The next generation version should be nice too, coming next year I think.

The TT is a chick car. It's too "cute" to be suitable for a guy, if image means something to you (which it seems to, country clubs and all ). Plus, without the bum spoiler, they tend to trip and fall over at high speed due to their function-follows-form body design concept, creating dangerous aerodynamic side-effects (rear lift in particular). It really is the Karmann-Ghia of the new century, and I didn't like the looks of the K-G either. Same goes for the Beetle. It's a geeky looking car for secretaries-about-town. I'm sure they're fine machines technically, but their looks are... umm... bizarre, even nerdy in an affected sort of way.

The Quattro system can be obtained in far more attractive and practical Audis, if that is what makes your thing swing.

Why not stick with what you've got? It's an OK car.

However, if cool is REALLY important, consider a classic Benz. Why be a slave to the fickle fashion treadmill and precipitously depreciating new cars? May I recommend a mid-1960s 220 SE Coupe? Might even be a good investment.