Misfire P0301 UNSOLVABLE M271 C230
10-19-2019, 08:36 PM
#1
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C230
Misfire P0301 UNSOLVABLE M271 C230
Hi everyone! Could really use some help
I'll start off with what I have replaced:
*Coils
*plugs
*injectors
*fuel pump
*fuel filter
*$12 hose inspected, no leaks
*idler/tensioner/alternator/power steering pump/belt ** (all brand new within the last 2 weeks)**
*supercharger oil filled/changed
*new coolant tank
*full compression test (head is fine, not valves)
*MAF sensor cleaned/inspected
*all fluids changed (oil/transmission/dif)
*all oil cleaned out of inner cooler piping and throttle body (very small amounts)
Now onto the problem.......after replacing all these components, my car is still throwing intermittent P0301 code for cylinder 1 misfire, in which the car shakes violently, sometimes stopping and restarting helps temporarily but the problem always returns.
I love this car,
PLEASE HELP
I'll start off with what I have replaced:
*Coils
*plugs
*injectors
*fuel pump
*fuel filter
*$12 hose inspected, no leaks
*idler/tensioner/alternator/power steering pump/belt ** (all brand new within the last 2 weeks)**
*supercharger oil filled/changed
*new coolant tank
*full compression test (head is fine, not valves)
*MAF sensor cleaned/inspected
*all fluids changed (oil/transmission/dif)
*all oil cleaned out of inner cooler piping and throttle body (very small amounts)
Now onto the problem.......after replacing all these components, my car is still throwing intermittent P0301 code for cylinder 1 misfire, in which the car shakes violently, sometimes stopping and restarting helps temporarily but the problem always returns.
I love this car,
PLEASE HELP
10-19-2019, 10:58 PM
#2
Super Member
There a a few possibilities.
First, a few important things:
1) Where are you located?
Put at least the Country in your profile.
Cars modes vary depending on destination. If you live on Jupiter, then you're just plain ******ed.
2) How many miles on the car?
3) Have you ever had the head or timing chain replaced?
4) How long have you had the car?
4a) If you bought it recently, roughly how much did you pay? Yes, that's important.
5) When did this problem start?
6) What are the vacuum readings?
7) What are the compression test results?
8) What type of scanner do you have?
9) Are you wiling to put money into the car?
9a) Such as $1,000+.
Good Luck.
First, a few important things:
1) Where are you located?
Put at least the Country in your profile.
Cars modes vary depending on destination. If you live on Jupiter, then you're just plain ******ed.
2) How many miles on the car?
3) Have you ever had the head or timing chain replaced?
4) How long have you had the car?
4a) If you bought it recently, roughly how much did you pay? Yes, that's important.
5) When did this problem start?
6) What are the vacuum readings?
7) What are the compression test results?
8) What type of scanner do you have?
9) Are you wiling to put money into the car?
9a) Such as $1,000+.
Good Luck.
10-19-2019, 11:04 PM
#3
Super Member
Oh yea, and what is the year of the car?
Btw, I have a Mustang (as I've mentioned a few times).
Yes, every single Mustang ever built by Ford is 100% exactly the same (even the color!). They all use the same exact parts. Ford has never ever ever ever added or changed a part on the Mustang since 1965!
If you want to see what my Mustang looks like, just do an image search on Google. Since every Mustang ever built is exactly the same, it's an easy search.
Btw, I have a Mustang (as I've mentioned a few times
).Yes, every single Mustang ever built by Ford is 100% exactly the same (even the color!). They all use the same exact parts. Ford has never ever ever ever added or changed a part on the Mustang since 1965!
If you want to see what my Mustang looks like, just do an image search on Google. Since every Mustang ever built is exactly the same, it's an easy search.
10-20-2019, 06:49 PM
#4
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2019
Location: Belleville Ontario, Canada
Posts: 8
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C230
Oh yea, and what is the year of the car?
Btw, I have a Mustang (as I've mentioned a few times).
Yes, every single Mustang ever built by Ford is 100% exactly the same (even the color!). They all use the same exact parts. Ford has never ever ever ever added or changed a part on the Mustang since 1965!
If you want to see what my Mustang looks like, just do an image search on Google. Since every Mustang ever built is exactly the same, it's an easy search.
Btw, I have a Mustang (as I've mentioned a few times
).Yes, every single Mustang ever built by Ford is 100% exactly the same (even the color!). They all use the same exact parts. Ford has never ever ever ever added or changed a part on the Mustang since 1965!
If you want to see what my Mustang looks like, just do an image search on Google. Since every Mustang ever built is exactly the same, it's an easy search.
My car is a 2004 mercedes C230 kompressor 1.8L supercharged, 6 speed
It has 197,000kms
I live in Ontario, Canada near Toronto
Compression test was done, I don't have the results at this time but it showed steady pressure across all cylinders.
I bought this car over a year ago for less then $2000 private sale and have done all the work myself bringing it back to it's full potential
(suspension is ALL new, and I mean everything)
I fixed everything including exhaust resonator and that's when it started throwing this code. I drove the car for approx 3 weeks, it was running great and then started throwing this P0301 cylinder 1 misfire code randomly.
I replaced everything above within the last month so I have no problems spending money where needed but now feel like I'm throwing money blindly.
If it was the timing chain, then my cams would be off and I would be able to hear it plus the car would throw a code for that, would it not?.....
It's happening more and more often and no mechanic in my local area can tell me what's causing this issue that is why I have reached out.
I bought the car as a project car and love working on it
Car starts fine, doesn't matter if it's hot or cold and have never thrown any other codes.......maybe sensor related?...
It's not a vacuum leak, hoses have been tested but it rocks like every video online shows for that $12 hose fix, mines fine. No air seems to be leaving the system where it's not suppose too
it only seems to throw this code at idle (red light) but if I keep my RPMs above 900 it never throws the code
I have an Innova 3030 CanOBD2 Diagnostic Code Reader
Hoping someone can help
-Dezairay
Last edited by Dezsbenz; 10-20-2019 at 06:52 PM.
10-20-2019, 07:51 PM
#5
Super Member
Hi neighbor up North!
197KM ~= 122K miles
That's beginning to push it for the timing chain. If the timing chain breaks, the engine is trash, since it's an interference design engine.
Imho, the timing chain should be replaced every ~70K to 100K miles.
Since you don't have a US model (that's very important), you have less boost on the supercharger.
However, you live in a colder climate. And, is 100% synthetic oil wasn't always used, that's another factor.
If the timing chain slipped, then you'd have rough running always. The engine would likely throw multiple codes right after clearing the codes.
Imho, the dry and wet compression tests, and those specific values are important.
Also, the fact that it's a manual is important. There were very few sold, so I often don't even bother to ask.
In your first post, you said "*full compression test (head is fine, not valves)".
The valves are a major part of the head.
Why did you say "not valves".
What where the specific tests and the specific results?
It sounds like the compression test came up low? That would be important.
A vacuum test will help test for an intake manifold leak. Those are very rare on M271 engines (direct from the factory).
If someone removed the intake, then that's different. The intake isn't a great design, in terms of being able to properly torque the bolts. Also, the port gaskets may not stay in place.
All of the above leads to my first thought, and imho, still my best GUESS is - carbon build up on the intake valves.
With a non US model, and less boost, there's less chance. But, with a manual tranny (non ideal shift points) and the colder climate, that would increase the amount of carbon build up on the intake valves.
Note: A dry and wet compression test, and a leak down test are the best ways to help to detect bad valves.
But, NONE of those tests are absolute. They all require "interpretation", the experience of the mechanic, along with other tests/observations made by the mechanic.
Mechanics may say different. That's because they have to run a business and deal with customers that are not engine/automotive experts.
So..., that leads to a number of things.
1) An inspection scope could show how much carbon has built up on the valves. But, that doesn't mean, nor show, that the build up is the cause.
2) Have a mechanic use "soda blasting/walnut shells/what-ever" to clean the intake valves.
That's the proper way to clean valves, and what every manufacture suggests.
3) Use Sea-foam. I have very mixed feelings about that. Imho, for a car that is meant to be kept for for a while, and used for many miles, I strongly suggest against using sea-foam.
4) The nuclear option that I did. I replaced the head, since I was replacing the timing chain (to be safe).
This is an expensive option. Figure ~$3K to $4K+ (USD) for an independent mechanic to do the work. Much much more for a Dealer.
I was able to get a brand new head from Germany (from a Dealer) for ~$1,100 (USD). That's when the exchange rate was good (for the US). Otherwise, iirc, a new head was ~$2K USD (~3 years ago).
As a Canuck, you can understand that when I found a 2005 C230 Red Coupe with ~85K Miles, was never driven in the winter, and had zero rust, I grabbed it as fast as I could. It was a second car, and a toy.
And, I haven't hesitated at putting money into my second toy (my '86 Mustang 5.0L is my first toy). Fwiw, I past $10K USD in new parts a long time ago. For example, I bought a new supercharger and had it professionally ported.
So....
Given the above, my suggestion is to ask how much intake valve cleaning would cost from an independent.
Also have them do at least a dry compression test before and afterwards.
Plus, ask-for/require inspection scope pictures before and after.
Fwiw, depending on the shop, they likely have done a good number of intake valve cleanings before.
Also, depending on the cost for intake valve cleaning, you may want to consider spending ~1-2 hours for Dealer time (ouch!) to have them look at and diagnose the cause. Imho, even a barely competent Certified mechanic would know to consider intake valve carbon buildup for a misfire on any supercharged, turbocharged, of "GDI" engine (see below).
=======
Side note: Turbos, super chargers, and Gas Direct Injection(GDI) engines all have problems with carbon build up on intake valves. For boosted engines, there's always more oil in the intake path. That extra oil causes carbon build up on the intake valves.
On GDI engines (without the additional port injectors - like Toyota recently added), there's no gasoline to wash off the slight oil from the intake valves. That causes MANY problems with these new flaming POS cr*p engines (imho, the companies should be sued for billions). Fwiw, this was very well known before the first GDI engine was sold to a consumer. The Ford Eco-boost engines are among the worse. But saying it's a bigger POS than the other POS engine, doesn't really mean much to the consumer that got massively screwed over. (No, neither I , nor any of my friends/family bought one. I warned them all.)
=======
Let us know how things turn out!
Good Luck!
197KM ~= 122K miles
That's beginning to push it for the timing chain. If the timing chain breaks, the engine is trash, since it's an interference design engine.
Imho, the timing chain should be replaced every ~70K to 100K miles.
Since you don't have a US model (that's very important), you have less boost on the supercharger.
However, you live in a colder climate. And, is 100% synthetic oil wasn't always used, that's another factor.
If the timing chain slipped, then you'd have rough running always. The engine would likely throw multiple codes right after clearing the codes.
Imho, the dry and wet compression tests, and those specific values are important.
Also, the fact that it's a manual is important. There were very few sold, so I often don't even bother to ask.
In your first post, you said "*full compression test (head is fine, not valves)".
The valves are a major part of the head.
Why did you say "not valves".
What where the specific tests and the specific results?
It sounds like the compression test came up low? That would be important.
A vacuum test will help test for an intake manifold leak. Those are very rare on M271 engines (direct from the factory).
If someone removed the intake, then that's different. The intake isn't a great design, in terms of being able to properly torque the bolts. Also, the port gaskets may not stay in place.
All of the above leads to my first thought, and imho, still my best GUESS is - carbon build up on the intake valves.
With a non US model, and less boost, there's less chance. But, with a manual tranny (non ideal shift points) and the colder climate, that would increase the amount of carbon build up on the intake valves.
Note: A dry and wet compression test, and a leak down test are the best ways to help to detect bad valves.
But, NONE of those tests are absolute. They all require "interpretation", the experience of the mechanic, along with other tests/observations made by the mechanic.
Mechanics may say different. That's because they have to run a business and deal with customers that are not engine/automotive experts.
So..., that leads to a number of things.
1) An inspection scope could show how much carbon has built up on the valves. But, that doesn't mean, nor show, that the build up is the cause.
2) Have a mechanic use "soda blasting/walnut shells/what-ever" to clean the intake valves.
That's the proper way to clean valves, and what every manufacture suggests.
3) Use Sea-foam. I have very mixed feelings about that. Imho, for a car that is meant to be kept for for a while, and used for many miles, I strongly suggest against using sea-foam.
4) The nuclear option that I did.
I replaced the head, since I was replacing the timing chain (to be safe).This is an expensive option. Figure ~$3K to $4K+ (USD) for an independent mechanic to do the work. Much much more for a Dealer.
I was able to get a brand new head from Germany (from a Dealer) for ~$1,100 (USD). That's when the exchange rate was good (for the US). Otherwise, iirc, a new head was ~$2K USD (~3 years ago).
As a Canuck
, you can understand that when I found a 2005 C230 Red Coupe with ~85K Miles, was never driven in the winter, and had zero rust, I grabbed it as fast as I could. It was a second car, and a toy.And, I haven't hesitated at putting money into my second toy (my '86 Mustang 5.0L is my first toy
). Fwiw, I past $10K USD in new parts a long time ago. For example, I bought a new supercharger and had it professionally ported. So....
Given the above, my suggestion is to ask how much intake valve cleaning would cost from an independent.
Also have them do at least a dry compression test before and afterwards.
Plus, ask-for/require inspection scope pictures before and after.
Fwiw, depending on the shop, they likely have done a good number of intake valve cleanings before.
Also, depending on the cost for intake valve cleaning, you may want to consider spending ~1-2 hours for Dealer time (ouch!) to have them look at and diagnose the cause. Imho, even a barely competent Certified mechanic would know to consider intake valve carbon buildup for a misfire on any supercharged, turbocharged, of "GDI" engine (see below).
=======
Side note: Turbos, super chargers, and Gas Direct Injection(GDI) engines all have problems with carbon build up on intake valves. For boosted engines, there's always more oil in the intake path. That extra oil causes carbon build up on the intake valves.
On GDI engines (without the additional port injectors - like Toyota recently added), there's no gasoline to wash off the slight oil from the intake valves. That causes MANY problems with these new flaming POS cr*p engines (imho, the companies should be sued for billions). Fwiw, this was very well known before the first GDI engine was sold to a consumer. The Ford Eco-boost engines are among the worse. But saying it's a bigger POS than the other POS engine, doesn't really mean much to the consumer that got massively screwed over. (No, neither I , nor any of my friends/family bought one. I warned them all.
)=======
Let us know how things turn out!
Good Luck!
Last edited by RedGray; 10-20-2019 at 07:58 PM.
10-20-2019, 10:45 PM
#6
Newbie
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2019
Location: Belleville Ontario, Canada
Posts: 8
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
C230
Hi neighbor up North!
197KM ~= 122K miles
That's beginning to push it for the timing chain. If the timing chain breaks, the engine is trash, since it's an interference design engine.
Imho, the timing chain should be replaced every ~70K to 100K miles.
Since you don't have a US model (that's very important), you have less boost on the supercharger.
However, you live in a colder climate. And, is 100% synthetic oil wasn't always used, that's another factor.
If the timing chain slipped, then you'd have rough running always. The engine would likely throw multiple codes right after clearing the codes.
Imho, the dry and wet compression tests, and those specific values are important.
Also, the fact that it's a manual is important. There were very few sold, so I often don't even bother to ask.
In your first post, you said "*full compression test (head is fine, not valves)".
The valves are a major part of the head.
Why did you say "not valves".
What where the specific tests and the specific results?
It sounds like the compression test came up low? That would be important.
A vacuum test will help test for an intake manifold leak. Those are very rare on M271 engines (direct from the factory).
If someone removed the intake, then that's different. The intake isn't a great design, in terms of being able to properly torque the bolts. Also, the port gaskets may not stay in place.
All of the above leads to my first thought, and imho, still my best GUESS is - carbon build up on the intake valves.
With a non US model, and less boost, there's less chance. But, with a manual tranny (non ideal shift points) and the colder climate, that would increase the amount of carbon build up on the intake valves.
Note: A dry and wet compression test, and a leak down test are the best ways to help to detect bad valves.
But, NONE of those tests are absolute. They all require "interpretation", the experience of the mechanic, along with other tests/observations made by the mechanic.
Mechanics may say different. That's because they have to run a business and deal with customers that are not engine/automotive experts.
So..., that leads to a number of things.
1) An inspection scope could show how much carbon has built up on the valves. But, that doesn't mean, nor show, that the build up is the cause.
2) Have a mechanic use "soda blasting/walnut shells/what-ever" to clean the intake valves.
That's the proper way to clean valves, and what every manufacture suggests.
3) Use Sea-foam. I have very mixed feelings about that. Imho, for a car that is meant to be kept for for a while, and used for many miles, I strongly suggest against using sea-foam.
4) The nuclear option that I did. I replaced the head, since I was replacing the timing chain (to be safe).
This is an expensive option. Figure ~$3K to $4K+ (USD) for an independent mechanic to do the work. Much much more for a Dealer.
I was able to get a brand new head from Germany (from a Dealer) for ~$1,100 (USD). That's when the exchange rate was good (for the US). Otherwise, iirc, a new head was ~$2K USD (~3 years ago).
As a Canuck, you can understand that when I found a 2005 C230 Red Coupe with ~85K Miles, was never driven in the winter, and had zero rust, I grabbed it as fast as I could. It was a second car, and a toy.
And, I haven't hesitated at putting money into my second toy (my '86 Mustang 5.0L is my first toy). Fwiw, I past $10K USD in new parts a long time ago. For example, I bought a new supercharger and had it professionally ported.
So....
Given the above, my suggestion is to ask how much intake valve cleaning would cost from an independent.
Also have them do at least a dry compression test before and afterwards.
Plus, ask-for/require inspection scope pictures before and after.
Fwiw, depending on the shop, they likely have done a good number of intake valve cleanings before.
Also, depending on the cost for intake valve cleaning, you may want to consider spending ~1-2 hours for Dealer time (ouch!) to have them look at and diagnose the cause. Imho, even a barely competent Certified mechanic would know to consider intake valve carbon buildup for a misfire on any supercharged, turbocharged, of "GDI" engine (see below).
=======
Side note: Turbos, super chargers, and Gas Direct Injection(GDI) engines all have problems with carbon build up on intake valves. For boosted engines, there's always more oil in the intake path. That extra oil causes carbon build up on the intake valves.
On GDI engines (without the additional port injectors - like Toyota recently added), there's no gasoline to wash off the slight oil from the intake valves. That causes MANY problems with these new flaming POS cr*p engines (imho, the companies should be sued for billions). Fwiw, this was very well known before the first GDI engine was sold to a consumer. The Ford Eco-boost engines are among the worse. But saying it's a bigger POS than the other POS engine, doesn't really mean much to the consumer that got massively screwed over. (No, neither I , nor any of my friends/family bought one. I warned them all.)
=======
Let us know how things turn out!
Good Luck!
197KM ~= 122K miles
That's beginning to push it for the timing chain. If the timing chain breaks, the engine is trash, since it's an interference design engine.
Imho, the timing chain should be replaced every ~70K to 100K miles.
Since you don't have a US model (that's very important), you have less boost on the supercharger.
However, you live in a colder climate. And, is 100% synthetic oil wasn't always used, that's another factor.
If the timing chain slipped, then you'd have rough running always. The engine would likely throw multiple codes right after clearing the codes.
Imho, the dry and wet compression tests, and those specific values are important.
Also, the fact that it's a manual is important. There were very few sold, so I often don't even bother to ask.
In your first post, you said "*full compression test (head is fine, not valves)".
The valves are a major part of the head.
Why did you say "not valves".
What where the specific tests and the specific results?
It sounds like the compression test came up low? That would be important.
A vacuum test will help test for an intake manifold leak. Those are very rare on M271 engines (direct from the factory).
If someone removed the intake, then that's different. The intake isn't a great design, in terms of being able to properly torque the bolts. Also, the port gaskets may not stay in place.
All of the above leads to my first thought, and imho, still my best GUESS is - carbon build up on the intake valves.
With a non US model, and less boost, there's less chance. But, with a manual tranny (non ideal shift points) and the colder climate, that would increase the amount of carbon build up on the intake valves.
Note: A dry and wet compression test, and a leak down test are the best ways to help to detect bad valves.
But, NONE of those tests are absolute. They all require "interpretation", the experience of the mechanic, along with other tests/observations made by the mechanic.
Mechanics may say different. That's because they have to run a business and deal with customers that are not engine/automotive experts.
So..., that leads to a number of things.
1) An inspection scope could show how much carbon has built up on the valves. But, that doesn't mean, nor show, that the build up is the cause.
2) Have a mechanic use "soda blasting/walnut shells/what-ever" to clean the intake valves.
That's the proper way to clean valves, and what every manufacture suggests.
3) Use Sea-foam. I have very mixed feelings about that. Imho, for a car that is meant to be kept for for a while, and used for many miles, I strongly suggest against using sea-foam.
4) The nuclear option that I did.
I replaced the head, since I was replacing the timing chain (to be safe).This is an expensive option. Figure ~$3K to $4K+ (USD) for an independent mechanic to do the work. Much much more for a Dealer.
I was able to get a brand new head from Germany (from a Dealer) for ~$1,100 (USD). That's when the exchange rate was good (for the US). Otherwise, iirc, a new head was ~$2K USD (~3 years ago).
As a Canuck
, you can understand that when I found a 2005 C230 Red Coupe with ~85K Miles, was never driven in the winter, and had zero rust, I grabbed it as fast as I could. It was a second car, and a toy.And, I haven't hesitated at putting money into my second toy (my '86 Mustang 5.0L is my first toy
). Fwiw, I past $10K USD in new parts a long time ago. For example, I bought a new supercharger and had it professionally ported. So....
Given the above, my suggestion is to ask how much intake valve cleaning would cost from an independent.
Also have them do at least a dry compression test before and afterwards.
Plus, ask-for/require inspection scope pictures before and after.
Fwiw, depending on the shop, they likely have done a good number of intake valve cleanings before.
Also, depending on the cost for intake valve cleaning, you may want to consider spending ~1-2 hours for Dealer time (ouch!) to have them look at and diagnose the cause. Imho, even a barely competent Certified mechanic would know to consider intake valve carbon buildup for a misfire on any supercharged, turbocharged, of "GDI" engine (see below).
=======
Side note: Turbos, super chargers, and Gas Direct Injection(GDI) engines all have problems with carbon build up on intake valves. For boosted engines, there's always more oil in the intake path. That extra oil causes carbon build up on the intake valves.
On GDI engines (without the additional port injectors - like Toyota recently added), there's no gasoline to wash off the slight oil from the intake valves. That causes MANY problems with these new flaming POS cr*p engines (imho, the companies should be sued for billions). Fwiw, this was very well known before the first GDI engine was sold to a consumer. The Ford Eco-boost engines are among the worse. But saying it's a bigger POS than the other POS engine, doesn't really mean much to the consumer that got massively screwed over. (No, neither I , nor any of my friends/family bought one. I warned them all.
)=======
Let us know how things turn out!
Good Luck!
Yes, I totally agree on the timing chain needing to be replaced especially on these motors and will be doing it soon of course but knew it was still fine and not the cause of this issue after checking. Not sure what you mean by less boost on the supercharger? I thought both the US and CDN models push around 11lbs of boost (Rated at 189hp) havent seen others except in Europe with smaller boost amounts. As far oil changes using Mobil1 Full Synthetic 5w30 as did the previous owner.
I wasn't present when the compression test was performed (wish I was now) as I knew that the build up on the valves is a common problem I wanted to make sure it was looked at. The worksheet said "compression/head test performed and valves seating is not the issue" found that injector 1 was leaking so a day later after seeing 26psi from the pump after a pressure test at home I did injectors/filter and pump to be sure. Ran just as well as it always has and then it did the same thing again later on that night after thinking I had it solved but no dice hahaha! Doing water pump tomorrow or the next as its last of the pulley componets to be done and then its back to this problem. Thanks and the more specifics I get I'll let you know asap
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10-21-2019, 08:48 PM
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10-24-2019, 08:06 PM
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**UPDATE**
Got the car back today, turns out there was a bit of oil in the harness and now looking at replacing the ECU. Will updated when part is received and installed
Thanks everyone for the tips!
-Dezairay
Got the car back today, turns out there was a bit of oil in the harness and now looking at replacing the ECU. Will updated when part is received and installed
Thanks everyone for the tips!
-Dezairay
10-24-2019, 09:38 PM
#10
MBWorld Fanatic!
Being in CANADA I recall a lot
of debate when this was new news...so I’d like to ask, do you have pig tails properly installed? If yes...do you know when they were installed?
of debate when this was new news...so I’d like to ask, do you have pig tails properly installed? If yes...do you know when they were installed?
