galaxygrrl

Hi all!

As I get closer to filing my lemon law suit, I've really thought about getting a standard tranny despite the fact I live on the steepest hill in San Francisco. I just miss driving a stick so much and decided that the headache parking is a fair trade-off for a stick.

When I bought my car, I test drove the stock shifter and was unimpressed. I know everyone sezz it gets better, but I just did not like it enough. So my question is how much better is the C7 shifter? Could someone please describe the differences.

(btw, Lynn, I would have PMed your directly, but I thought others would like to know this too. )

Cheers,

Beth

Rick

I'm told C7 cars have a shorter throw shifter, but I didn't really notice the difference. The shift arm in the non-C7 car has a bend in it and it is slightly longer. To tell you the truth, I hated the feel of the C7 shift "knob"...sort of like a victorian door knob. I prefer the pistol grip style of the standard shift.

hphan

If you want to make your way down to South SF during the
weekday you can drive mine a bit. I work on Oyster Point
Blvd. 2K miles on it right now, definitely feels better
than when I picked it up but I'm hoping it breaks in a
little more still. Don't remember how the non-C7 feels
so I can't compare.

galaxygrrl

Thanks Rick, I'm hoping to avoid going to test drive it, but your post makes me think I should. To be honest, I really just want the door handles especially if I don't get black. I really do not like the c7 wheels (no one shoot me please).

We'll see what others have to say. Heard you got some rain. Are the flows up?

Cheers,

Beth

trench

Beth

If you have to parallel park a lot in the hilly terrain, I just want to point out the floor e-brake is a pain in the @$$ to use in these conditions.



BT

galaxygrrl

Yes, I know, that is why I got the automatic in the first place! But like I said, it's a trade off.

So, the floor e-brake is a pain, but it is still doable right? It's not like I need a third foot?

thx

Beth

trench

It's doable - but awkward. On an especially steep hill it might be very difficult - I had a little trouble on the steep part of Powell near the top of *** Hill once keeping the car from rolling backward too much while trying to work the brake, clutch and gas all at once.

Of course, if you had a third foot it would be no problem at all.



BT

galaxygrrl

I might take you up on that as I get closer to making a decision! Thanks!

Beth

Lynn

Beth, the C7 shifter is so much better than the regular shifter. I'd say it is worth at least half the price of the C7 package. Is it as good as an RSX? Not by a long shot. But, it is much better than a WRX. I've had a brief drive in a BMW Z3, which is supposed to have a great shift feel. Honestly, I don't think the C7 shifter is very inferior to that.

I just went to the garage and rowed the shifter of my now dead 280z. I really liked the way that car shifted, even if I did go through three used trannies in the 7 1/2 years I drove it. The C7 has shorter thows and a narrow gate. The MB trans is stiffer, but then it only has 3900 miles while the Datsun has who knows how many.

While St. Louis isn't as hilly as SF, it isn't exactly flat, especially where I live. One route I take often almost always requires stopping on a semi-steep slope. The car has no problem starting from a stop and going up the hill.

This brings up little side issue and question.

I was taught to drive a standard on hills steeper than most in SF in an International Scout with the under the dash engage and disengage by hand parking brake. The insructor taught me how to use disengage parking brake, engage the clutch and gentley press the throttle to start from a dead stop. I told him this seems silly, can't I just keep my right foot on the brake, and when the time comes release the brake, move my foot to the throttle, and engage the clutch. He told me to try it. I rolled back about three feet the first time. That was the last time in 36 years I have ever rolled back more than a few inches. My question is this. Do people really use the parking brake to start from a dead stop on a hill? The whole idea boggles my mind!


Edit: I wrote the above after reading Beths's original post, and with out reading the rest. I can see how the parking brake might be useful when parallel parking a very steep hill.

galaxygrrl

I live about 10 blocks from where you mentioned on Russian Hill. I know exactly where you're talking about. That is a tough area. I see people killing there clutch all the time on *** Hill. I think I would get used to an extra step, I just don't think it would be too fun learning.

thanks for your help!

Beth

trench

Lynn-

Funny, but the car I drove prior to the Merc was the first one I ever had with a hand-brake, and before it I never had any problems - but believe me, you can get addicted to the hand brake in a big hurry. As Yoda would say - Unlearn bad habits you must.

:p

BT

galaxygrrl

Lynn,

Thanks! I knew you would have an idea about this one. Your memory must be pretty good to remember the other car I looked at was the RSX (which shifted so well, I just did not like the rest of the car).

Well, it good to know that the C7 package shifts better. I really miss drving a stick.

Yes, Lynn, you need to use the e-brake to park near my house. I see people get in so much trouble all the time because they don't know that trick. And you can smell them blowing their clutch. The slope on the hill outside my house is 31 degrees.

Thanks

Beth

Mike T.

I've tried both the "Evolution" (C7 in USA) shifter and the regular one - the regular one on the car I drove was very fluid and nice to use, whereas the Evo one was notchy into first (from neutral) and from first to second.

So it seems it's the luck of the draw to some extent.

Bos wrote a while back that the shifters of both types are adjustable, so maybe therein lies the apparent inconsistency between opinions.

MarkL

Well, let's see... If you don't test drive them and you end up not getting C7, I guess you could always find a way to do another lemon law on the next one to get the one you "really" want, with C7. And, you're even considering black again? I don't have time to scan all your previous messages, but if I remember correctly, you were unhappy with both the transmission and the color when you first took delivery of your current coupe. I'm sorry, but you seem to have a history of getting rid of cars that you realize you don't like after beating the dealer to death trying to get them to give you the car. I don't know how many M-B dealers are in your area, but if you came back to me, I wouldn't sell you another one. Good luck!

galaxygrrl

OK, OK, OK, I'll go test drive it. Fair point.

Let me point out, if the dealer would sell me a car that worked, I would not have this problem. And for the record, I've never asked a dealer for a new car. Please lay blame where it belongs before aiming both your barrels at me.


Cheers,

Beth

zimmer26

C7 is FAR FAR better than the regular shifter. Agree w/Rick about the shape but that's all. The throws are much shorter, crisper and more defined between gates. I remember missing many shifts on aggresive changes and the manual being one of my few dissapointments on the non C7 car I tested. If you could find the gear it engaged a bit smoother as I recall whereas the the C7 seems to "pop" into gear. Its still somewhat of a matter of preference I guess. Final word - test them both and see what u think.

galaxygrrl

I have no problem test driving a car, it's just there were no C7s to test drive when I bought mine. But given hphan offer, that's not a problem now.

speedfrk

Beth, The problem is that they are all different in the way they shift. I test drove a C7, and it seemed smoother than my quite notchy non C7. Others report the C7's are notchier. You can drive 2 non-C7's or 2 C7's and they would feel different. Hell, mine feels different everytime I shift it on the 1st to 2nd shift. Drive one of each, but make sure you drive the one you are going to buy extensively, to make sure you are happy with the way it shifts. My trans shifts quite differently when it is hot vs when it is cold, so drive it enough to see if you like it. BTW, I agree with you on the wheels-I like the look of the stock wheels better, but I wish you could get them in 17's. I was reading EVO (a european car mag) and it showed the A class evolution package, and it had the exact same wheels as the C coupe C7 package-same pedals, too.

galaxygrrl

That is really good advice! I don't think you can do that with the lemon law, I think you get what they give you. We'll see.

Thanks though

Beth

FrankW

i really don't think there is any difference between the regular 6-spd and the those with the wheel pkg C7.

if the C7 really have a shorter throw shifter wouldn't MB had noted in their website and on the 2002 catalog?

i found this on the MB web as the detail of what is the C7 package:

-
2002 Options
C7: Wheel Package

Four 17" 7-spoke alloy wheels with 225/45 ZR17 high-performance tires. Color-keyed exterior door handles. Enlarged, polished stainless steel exhaust tip. 3-spoke sport steering wheel with raised thumbgrips. Leather-covered sport shift knob. Rubber-studded aluminum pedals. Patterned aluminum door sill applique's.
-

they only say that the shift knob is covered with leather nothing more.

this is the picture that goes with the text:

speedfrk

The shifters have a different part #. Bos actually changed his out for a C7 part # shifter, and it is indeed different. He posted pictures. If you do a search, you can find the thread. I was quite pissed when I found out there were actually mechanical differences since my sales person said it was all cosmetic.

FrankW

i don't think there is mechanical difference after examim the picture the only difference from what i can see if the connecting rod. one is bend and one is straight.

maybe MB do that to give the C7 pkg a shorter feel. don't really know.

the best way is that someone email MBUSA and find out...

Smoky

Next time you are on the MB lot, drop down and look under a couple of coupes. The C7's don't have the exhaust resonator.

There is no mention of this in any of the promotions I have seen.

Here in Canada they don't call it C7, it called the Evolution package and comes with floor mats embroidered with Evolution.

See ya, Smoky

C230K

As previously posted, the C7 package is the most value for the money as far as options go. There are many, who now regret, that they did not get the package. Go for it.............

Bos

I've had both shifters in my hands and they are different. As you stated, from the outside the only difference appears to be the actual shifter arm, which is a straight bar, but it's also shorter then the stock arm. I was not able to actually take the ball and socket section apart, but the difference between the two indicates far more going on than just a shorter arm. Determining this difference was done by having both shifters side by side (one in each hand) and comparing the throw.

Go here for more pics etc.