Flashman

How is the C Coupe doing in sales? The reason I ask, is that I am quite amazed at how bad Mercedes' marketing efforts are to promote this car. MB USA has no idea how to sell this car. I still very much feel it is a car I 'found', no thank to MB marketing.

Their one TV ad was aimed at "who knows who". Calm relaxed cruising with funky music. Could have been a Sebring. It was silver too, not exactly a sporty youth color.

I mean we are talking about a car that is aimed at a younger luxury market (25-40). Same people who would buy a Mercury Cougar, Subaru WRX, Acura RSX, IS-300, BMW 325, etc.

Last month my wife and I went to the Tampa Auto Show. We saw how Subaru had their WRX on a stand (including a cool rally painted one), making it look like a bat escaping from hell. Lexus had their IS-300 SportCross sideways, looking like a gift from heaven (those cool spotlights helped), so people who walked by could not miss it. Both had very large crowds all over the cars.

But we were dissapointed at MB. They had the C230 in two locations. One facing forward (nice blue one) next to a more expensive MB) and another one buried in the back (black). There was a decent amount of people, but no massive crowds. The C230 Coupe was not separated in any way from cars costing 2-3 times as much. No 'younger' buyer was going to stop to look, it didn't look like anything was affordable.

I can't help wonder what crowd reaction would have been if a Citroen Green or Magma Red C230 was instead parked sideways up front, showing off the new younger MB "attitude". Maybe with a couple of those new "C" signs you see at some dealerships.

Last Saturday I went to the Orlando Auto Show, every manufacturer was there. With one exception. Mercedes-Benz was a no-show. Acura had a great display for the RSX, Lexus has the IS-300 and IS-300 L-Tuned, BMW had all their stuff, etc... But no MB. Like if they didn't exist.

In a way I don't mind it, I love my car being unique and rare. I've only seen three in Orlando, compared to dozens of IS-300 and thousands of BMWs. But the marketing guy in me is just amazed at how ill prepared MB USA is in being able to properly market and sell this car. If they can't figure out how to market this car, how will they ever consider bringing over the A-Class?

Just my two unsolicited cents,
Rick

geistmeister

I've also observed minimal marketing effort of the c-coupe. I figure it must be selling extremely well, hence no costly push is required. The few MB salesmen I've spoken with are certainly the least enthusiastic I've ever met.

Last week, at the San Francisco auto show, an Orion Blue c-coupe was the focal point of the Benz display (on a conservative, raised platform). There was also an orange (paprika?) model in the middle of the floor. The orange c-coupe was getting the most attention among all the MB cars.

I noticed that BMW, with no brand-new models or concept vehicles, no flashy displays, and a less desirable floor location than MB, easily had twice the traffic, with people crowding around the very models that dot almost every street curb in the city.

If the c-coupe is targeted at women, I wonder what ad vehicles MB is using to reach that audience--the TV ad, brochures and auto show appearances don't seem effective to me. Maybe the coupe's being pushed on chick shows and in magazines we're not being exposed to

MB-BOB

The marketing guy in me is glad MB-USA isn't pushing the Coupe right now. Until they get all the production issues worked out with leather availability, C5 and C7 readily available, etc., I think it's pointless to promote too much... you don't want to dash consumer delivery expectations because the production line hasn't ramped up to speed with the options most people will want.

Of course, maybe the way it's unfolded so far is just serendipity... I agree they don't appear to have a concrete plan. I just hope MB-USA DOES have a plan to make the most of the car, rather than just a lackluster, going-thru-the-motions roll-out to hedge the bet against US "hatchback" acceptance.

curtrich

To answer some of the questions:

It's selling VERY well.

It's selling to 2 groups, one is under 30, which surprised MB as they expected the buyers to be under 35. The other is empty-nesters who appreciate MBs but don't need seating for seven anymore. Many times it's a combination. Dad is buying the car for daughter at college for the safety features. Nothing in its class comes close to 8 air bags, brake assist, ESP, real safety cage and crumple zones, seats that don't collapse in rear impacts, etc., etc.

Trust me, they need to market the C320 Station Wagon. The C230K is doing fine.

If there are ads for the C320 Station Wagon I haven't seen them. It's truly the stealth Mercedes. Too bad as I've driven one extensively, and I think it's seriously neat.

geistmeister,

The reasons the sales reps are unenthusiastic are twofold: 1. Under MB's new (no)pay plan, a C230K sale at MSRP won't pay for the time invested. They take much more time to sell and pay less than other Mercedes (pay plans vary at different dealerships. Your mileage may vary. Under our new pay plan I have to pay MB $500 for every C230K I sell.)
2. The prospects are not the usual MB prospects. They want 20% discounts, 0% interest, and after you spend 3 hours with them they buy a Saturn coupe because it's cheaper. An awful lot of people are looking at C230Ks who can't afford them. Instead of saying that, they try to get massive discounts so they can afford them.

I ignore this and have sold a bunch of them because I have a positive attitude no matter what, that and I kill people who refuse to buy. Pretty soon word gets out, and people buy. Just kidding. Haven't killed anyone in years.

But act like you really want to BUY one instead of just look at it because you're a Mercedes aficionado, and I bet you'll see enthusiasm. Just do "window shopping" early in the month.

tomqbui

I had a dealer accuse me of not being a serious shopper when I wanted to buy a C230K. This, after negotiating and inspecting a couple of cars for 2 hours or so. The sales rep. didn't want to go that low, so I said "fine" and walked out.

Bought one that evening--for the price I wanted. Just feel like driving by all the dealerships that didn't want to deal with me (i.e. negotiate at all) and smile in my new C230K.

Anyhow, first saw the C230K in <i>Stuff</i> magazine--wasn't an advertisement, but was in a small little column that stated what car to get for what income. I had seen no advertisements before whatsoever.

Flashman

I'm glad you have a great attitude, the salesperson who finally sold me my C230 had one too, and it made a world of difference.

However, I am somewhat getting tired of hearing MB Salesperson (not necessarily refering to yourself, but mostly local salespeople) complaining that there is no money in selling a C230K Sports Coupe.

I disagree. Mercedes-Benz gives the dealership a clean 10% profit on each C230K sold (7% off MSRP plus 3% holdback). That's more than many other car brands. This is in a car that is selling at or near MSRP. I'm sure that a Lexus dealer would love to see such profit on an IS-300. They are currently selling close to invoice, living off the holdback (at least locally).

Personally, I think that MB Salespeople are just not the right people to sell any car under $40K. They are spoiled by making $50-100K sales and seem quite frustrated that they are forced to make such a low end sale. It makes the sales/demo experience somewhat degrading (at some dealerships at least) for those looking at the Sports Coupe.

I truly believe this same problem was recognized by BMW and it is why they decided that to successfully sell the MINI in the US, they had to force the dealerships to create new dealerships with brand new salespeople. MB could learn from that and should have probably forced dealerships to hire C-Class only salespeople. I bet those salespeople would be very motivated to show off and sell the Sports Coupe.

I really don't see how MB could ever bring over the A-Class with the existing dealer network. They would have to do something similar to what BMW is doing with the MINI.

Rick

curtrich

Hmmm,

I guess this is where I try giving a little class in basic car biz.

First of all, 10% is not particularly high. In fact, it's low compared to our major competitors. But we don't get 10%. We get 7%. There is a 3% hold back that goes to dealers eventually. On the other hand, there are constant floor plan charges, among others. Bottom line is sales people don't get paid on hold back. In fact, sales people don't get paid on 7%. First there's advertising group fees. When you see a MB ad and "See your Tri-State dealers", etc. that's paid for from that. Say $600. On a C230K, that's 2%. Then there'll be a "pack," to cover overhead, benefits, etc. Let's say $500. So, from a $24950 car (no profit in the destination charge), there's 1746-500-600=646.50 X whatever percentage the salesman's getting, say 20%. That leaves 129.30.

More on next post. Whenever I try a long post, it doesn't go through.

curtrich

Okay, the sales rep is making $129.30. A good sales rep sells 10 cars a month. Mercedes gives awards for 80 cars/year and more. That's kind of the minimum. A salesman selling 10 C230s will make $1230 a month not counting volume bonuses, etc.

It takes me 15 minutes at delivery just to explain the "smart key." Tele-Aid usually takes 30 minutes total. Average deliveries have gotten to 2 hours. That's just the delivery. I spend a minimum of 56 hours at the store a week. If a C230 takes 2X the time to sell as an E-Class or a CLK, it's not good. It turns out it takes 4. This leaves me less time to sell other cars that do make a little money, so it actually hurts the overall income.

(There are stores that've gone to one set fee for selling a car. Most of them haven't STAYED with that plan. As you can imagine, it's disastrous to the store and would get you an F if you suggested it in a college sales management course.)

I understand that you want the salesman to be absolutely wonderful to you. So do I. I buy from good salesmen and don't buy from bad ones even if I want the product.

But my logs show that spending time showing C230s is not productive. Simply stated, you have to kiss too many frogs to find a handsome prince. It takes a really special sales rep to not let that show, to not cut short a looker who has convinced the sales rep he's not going to buy or is just killing a Saturday. And a lot of "unqualified" people look at C230s. That's the nature of a new car in a new price range.

That being said, someone walking into our dealership wanting a spec'd C230 will have to wait for March or April for its arrival. They are selling, and sales people are delivering them. There is really nothing in its price range to compare to it, especially in safety.

MB-BOB

You MB salesmen must live pretty lean. According to the Sales report on OBNZ.org, half of all MBs sold in the USA this year will be Cs and MLs. Sounds to me like the sales incentives offered by MB don't match the sales realities. Not many dealers can survive selling their share of only 2,500 CLs this year.

Curtrich, don't your observations for MB also apply to nearly all other brands?

Flashman

You really want us to believe that a "good" MB salesman makes $14,700 a year?

A) Sale only takes longer than 15 minutes because salesperson MAKES IT TAKE LONGER by introducing last-minute markup fees (dealer-prep, electronic filing, paperwork-fees). Start with a good price and no mark-up fees and I'd walk through the register and buy the car off a 19 year old minimum-wage kid in 5 minutes or less.

B) If we are to believe that only $129 to be made on a C230, how come I have one on order with a $800 discount and no add-on fees (they normally charge $399 dealer prep). That's $1,199 off their MSRP and normal dealer fees. That's not even the lowest offer I was given. If I was willing to drive up the east coast, another dealer would order me one for $1,295 off MSRP. Yet something tells me they are not selling me the car at a loss. Those salespeople were "calling me" back trying ot get the sale.

Rick

Rick

Maybe we should share this with the folks at MBUSA and the MB Princeton, NJ zoo....along with a few spare bananas...

You guys are absolutely correct about the lack of marketing. The first time I saw the Coupe was at the NY Auto Show. Paprika seemed to be the color of choice for last year's show. Everyone...and I mean EVERYONE had some form of orange metalic paint displayed, and it didn't look bad on the 'little C'. I was able to sneak up on the platform, sit in the car and get a few good interior shots before the demonstration started and before security asked me to "step away from da car...now, mistah"(you have to love that NYC accent).

Now, I had seen mock ups, and even a few 'spy pics'of euro-spec models (already available across the pond)in various magazines but when I went to the local dealer, They had never heard of it. In fact, I was told "We probably won't be carrying that model". I persisted, and was again told that they don't plan on selling it, even if MBUSA authorizes the car.(Snobbery at an MB store?)

Less than two weeks later, the sales 'consultant' (who hadn't yet turned into an order taking ape) calls me to tell me they'll start taking orders May 1. So, off i go to review the options and order my car...

Personally, I feel if he had put ANY effort into this, I would certainly commend him, and might even send a Christmas Card or gift. However, he had less information than I did...and that's where the nightmare began (the rest is now ancient history).

Fortunately for Daimler Chrysler, the car is much better than the sales staff at their stores. But it still leaves me feeling sort of like I ordered filet mignon and chateau neuf d'pape at McDonalds.

curtrich

Flashman,

I try very hard to write concisely. Nowhere can I find that I made such a statement. However, a salesman who sold only C230s could not make a living under the average pay plan. The answer to the fact that some dealers were discounting them is the salesman either got paid by the unit, got paid very little, got paid a "mini," (a minimum commission, if the store has one) or didn't get paid at all. If the sale was the 10th/15th/name the bonus point, and the bonus was worth it, and management took the deal, the salesman would deliver it for the bonus. Additionally if the sales manager had told him, sell 15 cars this month or get fired, and management took the deal, the salesman would do the deal. Management, not salesmen, decide what is an acceptable deal.

I am not your enemy. The hostility I'm getting in this wire is unwarranted. I have no reason to lie. I certainly don't expect to sell any cars to members of this forum. I was asked to come here by one of the moderators, that my experience and knowledge base might be useful. So far, in the course of less than a week I've spent some time looking up answers here and there, carefully composed my answers, and in return been called a communist and a coward (different thread) and a liar. I'm beginning to question the wisdom of my spending time here.

In this thread I was trying to explain why salesmen weren't too eager to sell C230s. I also gave some suggestions to prospective C230 buyers for getting the salesman's attention and thus making the buying process easier. I think I've accomplished those goals, even though every reader might not accept this, so I'll move on to other threads.

geistmeister

I honestly don't mean to be insulting, but can we slow down a minute, here--this sounds to me like tricky car salesperson logic.

I acknowledge your point that dealer holdback in no way benefits the individual salesperson.

However...

There should be no floor plan charge for a pre-sold spec'd car.

There should be no additional advertising fee for any car; car dealers have invented this "charge" to get additional dollars out of customers; every other business factors advertising into overall expenses.

These two points aside, in your example above, if the ad fee and the "pack" are deducted, the salesperson should be clearing $646.50. The commission rate is 7%, not 20% of 7%. I'm extremely doubtful that MB salespeople occupy a unique position among sales professionals by agreeing to accept ONE FIFTH of their earned commission on each sale!

Notorious

I don't know about you all but if Mercedes never advertises this car that is fine with me. I wanted something original and if everybody has one then the C230 won't be. But I guess if I really wanted an original car I wouldn't have gotten that blue color.

RedC230K

I used to be an MB sales consultant and will back up what curtich says. Before 1999, dealers earned about 15% profit on each car. A person could make a decent living selling these cars.
Then, for 2000, Benz introduced "The Mercedes Experience" which included "Negotiation Free Pricing". The MSRPs of the cars were reduced and dealers were told to sell at "sticker price".
To encourage dealers to stick to MSRP and not discount, Benz cut dealer profit to 7%. 100% true!! But the car buyers of today demand massive discounts and incentives, so many dealers started discounting and undercutting and then the whole idea of NFP went to crap.
To salespeople, this meant that our salaries were effectively cut in HALF (at the very least)!! Benz offered no aplogy for this and basically told us that we should be glad just to work for Mercedes. Also, they told us that sales would increase - which they have somewhat.
So to what lengths should a salesperson go to make a $125 commission (before taxes, deductions) on a $30,000 car? If you negotiate down to 3% over invoice, the salesperson is making 1/5th of 3% of the price. So $125 on a C-class is about right.
If you don't believe the ad fees, how about $5 each dealer cost for brochures?? That big yellow "C" sign on the showroom floor?? That cost dealers upwards of $500.


This is just my take - I left on good terms and am a happy owner of a C230K. I have no axe to grind either way.

curtrich

7% is the dealer's profit. What on earth would make you think that the dealer would give the sales person all of the dealer's profit? No car salesman selling anything gets all of the dealer's profit. 20% + volume bonuses is about average.

And, yes, the brochures cost the dealer money, not to mention the $15 million dollar facility, 150 salaries, and, whether you would like to believe it or not, the interest on the 175 cars in the facility. Just because one car comes in pre-sold doesn't mean the others don't have floorplan costs. Legal fees are probably $10,000/month these days because we get 5 or 6 frivolous lawsuits a month. We spend $50,000+ per month on loaner cars. Some stores (not ours) have 401K plans and medical plans for their employees. Taxes are brutal. Sales taxes alone are 6-1/4%. THE TAX MAN MAKES MORE THAN THE STORE DOES. I feel like I'm working for the State. And that doesn't count federal taxes.

The shop doesn't do much better. MB makes sure that warranty work just pays break even. The owner mentioned to me recently that the shop wasn't making money. The parts department was. I was surprised. That's the big potential profit center. Most dealers charge 125 to 200% of suggested list (matrix pricing). We charge list. I didn't ask if the new car sales dept. was making money. I didn't want him to think of ways to cut my pay any more.

After 20 years at the store I had expected to be able to relax a little. But with the new pay plan I've had to work like a beginner, 60-70 hour weeks, no lunches (can't afford to miss a drop in). It's paying off. I've sold a lot more cars than the average salesman, and I'm able to make just a tad more than I was in 1995 selling considerably fewer cars.

The low quality of sales people you're seeing is a direct result of this pay plan. Many good people are now selling Lexus or BMWs, which still pay. I have my own little empire built out here, with hundreds of repeat clients per year, and anyway, I can't stand BMWs or Lexus.

Sorry this went on forever, but this is a semi-sore subject. There's just too much misinformation in this area.

Notorious

Awww! Wow, I really feel sorry for you. I am sure you are doing just fine or you wouldn't have kept the job for 20 years. People aren't going to feel sorry for you, thats the profesion you chose. Quit the BS and even though that comes naturaly to you. The C230 is a great car and if it wasn't making money they would sell it simple as that.

Flashman

curtrich,

Please don't read my messages as hostile. That's why I added those smiley faces. I really appreciate your input and I'm very much willing to learn. I arrived at the $14,700 figure by multiplying your number (a good salesman sells 10 a month, and makes $129 a car)... so a C-Coupe salesperson would only earn $14,700 annually. Everything rounded up of course.

I'll be honest, I don't really care what a car sells for. I'd have bought my C-Coupe at MSRP, but someone was willing to offer me $800 off, with a smile. I didn't suggest a discount, they did, all on their own, without any pressure! I just asked "what's the best offer/incentive you can make me on a c-coupe". Honestly, I was hoping for half-off CD-changer or some such thing. But I was completely prepared to just pay MSRP. Then one guy said "since you wrote an email you qualify for our automatic $800 internet discount." Then another guy said "oh, we can let that car go for $1,295 off"... it was like raining discounts...

I can't imagine those salespeople are that tight if they are just offering discounts without heavy pressure or negotiation. Feels more like the car is just getting naturally discounted.

curtrich

Notorious, you have totally missed the point. There is absolutely no BS in any of my posts. I will thank you not to accuse me of same or saying it comes naturally to me. You don't know me at all. You don't know my moral values or work ethic. By saying something that asinine you simply come off as ignorant and foul mouthed. The subject was why sales people didn't like selling C230s. I explained it very thoroughly, but that apparently didn't jive with your preconcieved notions. The fact tha MBUSA might be making money from C230 sales has absolutely nothing to do with the fact that the time spent selling them takes salesmen away from selling 4 regular Mercedes and doesn't pay them adequately. That is a fact, and all of your snide remarks won't change facts.

RedC230K

Well, Notorius - I did quit doing it - becuase of the attitudes of folks like you. I mean no disrespect, but please - until you've been in our shoes, you should reserve your unkind comments.
Some months I did well. Some other months I starved and made nothing despite working 65-hour weeks being treated badly by people. Some slow months we'd take home $600 for 260 hours of work.
There's no need to feel sorry for salespeople - just a need to realize that we're humans also and that we don't go home at night and roll around in big piles of $1,000 bills.
I had the highest Customer Satisfaction Index score in my store and I worked very hard for my clients.
My replacement, however, came from selling Neons and could give a rat's behind about his clients.
That's the kind of guy you'll get with the low pay of a Benz salesperson.

Flashman

To return to the REAL topic... MB-USA lack of marketing for the C-Coupe... I was just dissapointed that MB skipped the Orlando Auto Show, 5 minutes from DisneyWorld. It's a big enough and well attended auto show, with excellent demographics. Every other company was there without exception. BMW actually had a display that was double the size of Tampa (a larger city). Lexus was right there with L-tuned special editions and more. It almost felt like MB packed up and left the USA.

I've also noticed the car has been for sale in the US for almost six months and there is still not a single FULL REVIEW. All we have are all these initial reviews from the Canadian demo or from limited "first drives". But no full magazine reviews that measured its own accelleration, printed torque curves, beauty cover shot, etc. Seems like MB Marketing isn't really 'turned on' yet if it ever will be. Remember all the publicity the M-Class got? Let's get some covers! Maybe they need to hire away some Honda marketing folk.

I did notice one positive event.

The TV Show ALIAS has a burgundy C230 Coupe that keeps popping up in 'background' shots whenever they are in a foreign country (show is filmed in LA but makes believe they are all over Europe). Best shot so far was when they were escaping in the ambulance (with that guy who had a bomb in his heart) and a C230 pulls in front and almost makes them crash. You can see right up the plastic rear window in that shot.

However, if you look carefully, it is also parked in various background shots that 'supposedly' take place in various European countries. Guess the car gives them that "euro" look.

Knowing how the TV industry works, this is either a stuntman's own car (leased via show budget), or a loaner/rental from local dealership. If it was an official MB donation it would have gotten better beauty shots.

Rick

Iceman's C230

There is also very low marketing here in Calgary Canada. When i was shopping for a new car i didn't even hear about the new C230. I dropped by at a local benz dealer to actually see it. And so far i seen 2 driving in town. But in some ways it is good. I sometimes get lot of attention.

Mike T.

Thanks for your input on this topic. It's been very interesting for me, not knowing much about the sales business to begin with.

Don't let rude and uninformed posters dissuade you from continuing to post here.

Rick

Curt,

I didn't mean to offend you. Certainly there must be some good sales consultants out there. Conversely, you have to realize that tere are also some real idiots that make mistakes, then try to blame customers when things go awry. This is the type that I dealt with at MB Princeton(NJ).

Without completely reitterating my tale of woe, they screwed up my original order which delayed my delivery for six months. During that time I got blame, excuses, retribution from MBUSA then more excuses from the store. Needless to say, my experience was less than ideal.

That said, the car is damn near perfect. Only a few minor gripes with the features...but now that I actually have it, I'm able to put all the sales junk behind me and enjoy the fact that I won't have to do that again for about 3 or 4 years.

Don

For those of you that aren’t aware, Curt Rich publishes a monthly newsletter full of interesting and useful information on Mercedes Benz products. Curt’s website also offers a little background on who he is and how he approaches his profession. I think we’re fortunate to have Curt provide this forum with the benefit of his expertise, experience, and certainly in the case of this thread, his abiding patience.

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