Moxxon

I have been reading these forums for a long time but this is my first time posting here. I bought an 05 C230 SS back in September. I have driven a stick shift all my life so without thinking I just assumed I would want to stay with a manual tranny and I found a pewter metallic 05 with a six-speed and bought it.

After driving in heavy San Francisco traffic several times, I now would prefer having the five-speed auto tranny instead of the manual. Sticker on my car was $33,940. Options included are Xenons, sunroof, CD changer and fold down rear seats. The car has only 1,300 miles on it and looks totally new still. I want to sell it and get one with an auto tranny. The dealer would only give me $25,000 for the car, which totally sucks. Does anybody have a good idea of what I could get for my car here in the SF Bay Area with a private sale? Thanks.

Jim Banville

Invoice on that car is $31,600. People claim to easily get C230SS's for $2k under invoice in So. Cal. I'd say you might get $29K for your car in a private sale, if you're lucky.

Jim Banville

It may sound crazy, but have you thought about retrofitting an auto tranny into your car? Maybe you could find a low mileage auto tranny in a wrecked car for about a grand. You could probably get about $500 for your manual tranny. You'd probably need to swap a computer module as well.

Amit1

I sent you an e-mail, we may be able to negotiate something.

Thanks

nlpamg

wow, that's terrible... with that mileage and such, $25k is just horrible. well, I did hear about a 2004 c240 with 4k miles going for $23k. sorry man.

and jim, I think that that idea is pretty damn dumb, sorry.

jedcred

sent you an email...

mick1

i think the dealer offered you a low price because most mercedes buyers would want an automatic trans car. it would be harder for them to sell the car.

Buellwinkle

Heck, I paid $25.3K for a brand new pewter C230k SS back in June so that's great resale value. He's actually being generous. The closest thing would be an equivalent 2004 and KBB shows it about $22.5K trade-in + $1,000 for low mileage so he's a adding a little bit for it being a 2005 although in reality, with the same mileage it doesn't make that huge a difference. Most dealers around here typically offer between 1,000-3,000 below KBB trade-in and don't factor in low mileage. So many dealers would offer you 20K-21K, specially for a hard car to sell like a 6-spd.

My guess is he's being generous because of the chance he'll sell you a new one with automatic.

Jim Banville

Why is it dumb? Do you think there is something inherently different between an auto C230 vs. a manual C230? I said he may think it is crazy because the average person thinks of a tranny as something that is "fixed", as in it can't be changed. Tranny swaps are more common than you think. It's actually easier to go manual>auto vs. auto>manual, which is what people most often go for. Doing a swap would probably save several $$$$ over trading his car in on an auto. Of course, he'd lose his warranty on his factory tranny, but who knows... as inept as some service people are, they may not even notice the change without actually looking for the specs using his VIN!

tifosiv122

He'd lose the warranty on a ton of parts, almost all of the powertrain, electronics, etc. Just think of everything that is involved. Now prove that the problem with the car didn't come from the swap. While your arguing your car sits at the lot. Swaps make sense, when the warranty is almost up or already gone. Not on a brand new benz. At least IMO.

Erik

Jim Banville

Are manual and auto C230's built on the same production line? Does it stand to reason that both tranny's bolt up to the engine and chassis in VERY similar ways? Do auto C230's and manual C230's use the same ratio rear ends? If yes to all, then I see no reason the swap would affect the warranty on the engine or rear end because (a) only the tranny itself, and possibly the front half of the drive shaft, is different between those two points, and (b) done right, a service tech who has not familiar with the car may not even notice the swap. I think I've read on this board where people have put in features and options in their MB's which they didn't have from the factory, but which MB dealers fixed under warranty, not knowing they weren't original from the factory. Either way, if you ever did have tranny problems, which is fairly unlikely anyway, just take it to a reputable non-MB dealership "import" repair shop (maybe the same one who did the swap for you in the first place - surely there are a boatload of them in Ca.). The trickiest part would be figuring out the ECU. Is it separate for the tranny or is it all in one unit: engine+trannny? Could it be as simple as a swap from the wrecked donor car?

Moxxon

I never thought about changing the tranny. I suppose it's possible, but I imagine it would cost at least $5K if not more to do something like that. If I could actually get $29K for my car in private sale, I could get a new C230 with auto for around $32K and the loss would not be too painful.

c230 fi addict

i dont see the tranny swap as a poor idea


you bought the car for 34k
trade to the dealer 25k
loss of 9k on the first deal
buy another...30k approx
loss of 5 k on the second

do you see 14k w/ of drivetrain issue being likely?
oh add 5-8hr labor to install the new tranny.
about as hard as doing a clutch job

5k to install the tranny??? OMG NO!!!! i dont see that. You could bet a shop to install a c43 ENGINE in your c230 for about that. (excluding engine cost ... Ofcouse)

mctwin2kman

Unfortunately you are finding out the hard way that a car depriciates rather quickly in its first year! I have seen people trade them in a month later and lose several thousand bucks. Once it is titled once it is used and thus falls under used car pricing. With the deep discounts most dealers are giving now due to the economy they would be stupid to give you more than $25K for your car. They have to make money selling it too and they would want to mark it up a few grand to make a buck or two. So then they give you $25K and sell it for say $27,995 so they have some wiggle room for a new buyer. Well you can get a new $34K MSRP one for about $30K right now. So if they gave you say $28K for it and they marked it for $30,995, how would they be able to seel that compared to the brand spanking new one they will give you for $30K. Not many buyers will go for the used when they can get a new one for the same price. Also dealers make more money on used cars so they tend to price them right to make $2-3K on them! Since they normally are discounting the new ones to get freash stock and of course get them off the floorplan. Most dealers own there used inventory and of course floor plan the new!

As for the tranny swap. Hell if you love the car and all I would just do that. The auto tranny should bolt right up with little modifiaction other than changing the fly wheel and maybe an ECU plus the shifter! Of course most people do tranny swaps the other way, but hey you may find someone with an Auto matic that want the 6 Speed. The tranny would bolt right up though as I am almost %100 sure that there are not sepearate Bell housings for the M271 auto and 6 speed! That would not be cost effective.

Moxxon

Ok, so pulling out the manual tranny and bolting in an auto tranny might be simple, but what about the electronics? Does the manual have the "P N D" on the display and they just don't light up? What about C and S mode? I wonder if all that could be programmed easily? Even if all this could be done for a reasonable dollar amount, I still might worry that a retrofitted tranny might have more problems than a factory installed one....

Thanks for all the input guys, I really appreciate it.

c230 fi addict

the only tricky part is the peddles
you have someone that was intrested in your tranny
if they want your tranny they might need your ecu too (trade both)
oh and the peddles and any sensors.

the shifter should sit in the same place w/o issue due to the way the tranny sits


I know many RX7 people that have done tranny swaps it's about 1000.oo in parts and "easy" labor. straight forward job.

ONLY THING! the person who gets your tranny will not need to hit the clutch to start it. they can start it w/ just the parking brake on. UNLESS they got throught the task of wiring that in. MORE INFO THEN NEEDED IM SURE.


**** good point about the display... swap clusters too to make life super easy****

Moxxon

I forgot to ask, if changing the tranny is feasible and would cost less than $5K, where would be the best place to take the car to have that done?

c230 fi addict

cant tell you to got some place in NY if your in CA.

let us know where you are.

Moxxon

I'm in the SF Bay Area, but I meant in general, where would be the best place? Dealer? Tranny shop?

Buellwinkle

When figuring out costs of selling and buying, don't forget to add about 9% for CA sales tax and license cost. So that can add up to another $3K on top of the price difference.

c230 fi addict

i would look into these shops first if your in the SF area.

Conversion Techniques
9845 Bigge Street
Oakland, CA 94603

Tel: 510.639.0911
Fax: 510.639.0297
Email: info@ct-motorsport.com
Web: www.ct-motorsport.com

got it from this list... http://kleemann.dk/site/Main/finddealer/usa


heck... here's the california ones i saw
Bergwerks
6318 Sepulveda Boulevard
Van Nuys, CA 91411

Tel: 877.230.5736
Fax: 818.781.2786
Email: info@bergwerks.com
Web: www.bergwerks.com

Canepa Design
1191 Walter Street
Santa Cruz, CA 95062

Tel: 831.423.5704
Fax: 831.423.2239
Email: canepa98@aol.com
Web: www.canepa.com

Conversion Techniques
9845 Bigge Street
Oakland, CA 94603

Tel: 510.639.0911
Fax: 510.639.0297
Email: info@ct-motorsport.com
Web: www.ct-motorsport.com

Topline Automobile, Inc.
1028 Carolan Avenue
Burlingame, CA 91010

Tel: 650.558.9899
Fax: 650.558.9238
Email: info@toplineautomobile.com
Web: www.toplineautomobile.com

Amit1

Would you consider my offer of $26,500 cash?

Mull it over. The main reason I can't offer much more is that I REALLY want to put in the COMAND system and the stealer might rape me on the price. Do you think we can work something out?

mctwin2kman

Get the command from Steve you will save a ton!

Moxxon

Well it looks like changing the tranny would be more costly than just selling the car and buying a new one. I got an email from one of the companies on the list that c230 fi addict posted and the guy said that the auto tranny and computer alone would cost $7K, add labor on top of that and it would be about $12K. So I guess that idea is out.....

Jim Banville

I'm sure you could get all the parts from a wrecked C230 for under $2K. There are proabably lots of low mileage, wrecked automatic C230's across the country. Labor shouldn't be more than about $1K. On top of that, you can recoupe some of the cost selling your manual tranny. Someone on this very forum might want it! The manual '05 tranny is supposed to be a lot better than previous years.