Anyone else not want the sunroof???
#26
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Mercedes-Benz
I had no problems with my sunroof in my 01 c240. The only issue was once, it had to be "resink". Happens when there is a power lose some where and the car shuts things down. Other then that, I loved my sun roof. I remember when I had a friend in the car which is bald. We took a little trip that was just over a hour. After that, he had sun burn for days. Need that sun screen. haha
#27
Originally Posted by Amit1
You aren't the brightest bulb in the box are you?
Originally Posted by Amit1
Cutting a large hole in the roof cuts the structural integrity - even if it is just a little bit.
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'06 Lexus GS300 RWD, '07 Camry SE V6 auto, '91 190E 2.6 auto
Maybe a loss of structural integrity is not what makes the sunroofs creak. The roofs on cars do flex ("rack") slightly. Cut out a square of sheetmetal out of the center of the roof and put in a square piece of glass that can't "rack" and you get noises as the rest of the roof flex's around it.
#29
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Originally Posted by Oil Change
lole. are you serious? only one car comes to my mind might make ur statement true (BMW X5). Other than that... its false for most cars that I know.
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Originally Posted by Oil Change
lole. are you serious? only one car comes to my mind might make ur statement true (BMW X5). Other than that... its false for most cars that I know.
The normal sunroof it's a whole in the sheetmetal and the glass pops up or out, might not be that bad. But in a case like the coupe, where the entire roof is GONE, and replaced with three structural horizontal beams, and no solid tied in piece across the whole roof, rigidity is lost. Gone, bye-bye, later, peace, see-ya, nope-not-no-more. The coupe might as well be a convertible.
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08' BMW E92 Coupe
Originally Posted by Jim Banville
I don't know where you live, but if you're ever in Ga. during July, you'd be looking for shade too! And since I will probably NEVER sit in the backseat of this car, how would the rear sunshade help or hurt me?
#32
Originally Posted by nukblazi
But in a case like the coupe, where the entire roof is GONE, and replaced with three structural horizontal beams, and no solid tied in piece across the whole roof
thats exactly my point... And those structural beams are NOT only in the C coupe, but usually thats how most cars are built. disregarde whether its a coupe or a sedan. honestly I'm not familiar with the C class or mercedes in general... But in usually thats how cars are built (including SUVs, And thats why I mentioned BMW X5 cuz they built it like a cage and they claim thats a unique thing).
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08' BMW E92 Coupe
Originally Posted by nukblazi
My C230, is another story. It is getting SO BAD, I am nervous because I am out of warranty, and the noises coming from it are insane. I have 60k+, more then half of that on modified suspension, and autocrossing. Every little bump produces god aweful noises. If I press up on the trim in the middle, some of the creaking stops.
#34
I hate to ruin the fun, But I found what support what I was talking about:
http://www.ieg.ee/volvo/volvo_xc90/pildid/labivaade.jpg
http://www.auto-innovations.com/site...c-chassis.html
http://www.ieg.ee/volvo/volvo_xc90/pildid/labivaade.jpg
http://www.auto-innovations.com/site...c-chassis.html
#35
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Originally Posted by Oil Change
thats exactly my point... And those structural beams are NOT only in the C coupe, but usually thats how most cars are built. disregarde whether its a coupe or a sedan. honestly I'm not familiar with the C class or mercedes in general... But in usually thats how cars are built (including SUVs, And thats why I mentioned BMW X5 cuz they built it like a cage and they claim thats a unique thing).
Understand what I am saying... I have a great example. When building a house, you use 2x4's to frame the walls. The exterior walls, will flop around, and shift until you nail the sheets of plywood in, not just on the outer 2x4s, but all of them, in the middle too.
On the coupe, specifically, you have a frame with no sheet. Hence, like the stick-framed walls, it's less sturdy, or rigid, since it only has glass sheets tied in on the outer supports (rails). It's stronger then a convertible, but not as strong as a solid roof sheet.
#37
Originally Posted by nukblazi
but what you're missing, despite the links, is that loose glass on rails tied to the horizontal beams, IS less rigid than when a sheet of metal is spot/seem welded along the border of the front rear and sides.
Understand what I am saying... I have a great example. When building a house, you use 2x4's to frame the walls. The exterior walls, will flop around, and shift until you nail the sheets of plywood in, not just on the outer 2x4s, but all of them, in the middle too.
On the coupe, specifically, you have a frame with no sheet. Hence, like the stick-framed walls, it's less sturdy, or rigid, since it only has glass sheets tied in on the outer supports (rails). It's stronger then a convertible, but not as strong as a solid roof sheet.
Understand what I am saying... I have a great example. When building a house, you use 2x4's to frame the walls. The exterior walls, will flop around, and shift until you nail the sheets of plywood in, not just on the outer 2x4s, but all of them, in the middle too.
On the coupe, specifically, you have a frame with no sheet. Hence, like the stick-framed walls, it's less sturdy, or rigid, since it only has glass sheets tied in on the outer supports (rails). It's stronger then a convertible, but not as strong as a solid roof sheet.
"It's stronger then a convertible, but not as strong as a solid roof sheet."
Again... I dont agree. since the 'solid roof sheet' isn't really solid and wont do much in case of an accident. and thats what we're talking about right?
![tard](https://mbworld.org/forums/images/smilies/tard.gif)
#38
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2005 Volvo S40 T5 AWD, 2004.5 C230 Sport Sedan, 2005 E320 CDI, 2008 C300 4-Matic Luxury
Originally Posted by Jim Banville
And since I will probably NEVER sit in the backseat of this car, how would the rear sunshade help or hurt me?
a) for the comfort of the passengers that do travel in the backseat
and
b) i have put it up when cars behind me have been reflecting sun into my eyes from shining either off of their windshield or off of their hood
while it may seem useless to you (as it sorta did to me but i liked having it anyway
![Big Grin](https://mbworld.org/forums/images/smilies/biggrin.gif)
hehe, or you could at least do this: http://media.ebaumsworld.com/benzsign.wmv
![Smilie](https://mbworld.org/forums/images/smilies/smile.gif)
![thumbs](https://mbworld.org/forums/images/smilies/thumbsup.gif)
#39
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'06 Lexus GS300 RWD, '07 Camry SE V6 auto, '91 190E 2.6 auto
Originally Posted by inFiniTE LooP
i also don't sit in the back seat, but ways it could help you (because it's ways it has helped me) is:
a) for the comfort of the passengers that do travel in the backseat
and
b) i have put it up when cars behind me have been reflecting sun into my eyes from shining either off of their windshield or off of their hood
while it may seem useless to you (as it sorta did to me but i liked having it anyway
) you may run into a situation or two where it can be useful.
hehe, or you could at least do this: http://media.ebaumsworld.com/benzsign.wmv
![thumbs](https://mbworld.org/forums/images/smilies/thumbsup.gif)
a) for the comfort of the passengers that do travel in the backseat
and
b) i have put it up when cars behind me have been reflecting sun into my eyes from shining either off of their windshield or off of their hood
while it may seem useless to you (as it sorta did to me but i liked having it anyway
![Big Grin](https://mbworld.org/forums/images/smilies/biggrin.gif)
hehe, or you could at least do this: http://media.ebaumsworld.com/benzsign.wmv
![Smilie](https://mbworld.org/forums/images/smilies/smile.gif)
![thumbs](https://mbworld.org/forums/images/smilies/thumbsup.gif)
#40
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Originally Posted by Oil Change
ok am lost and I have no idea what we're talking about.
"It's stronger then a convertible, but not as strong as a solid roof sheet."
Again... I dont agree. since the 'solid roof sheet' isn't really solid and wont do much in case of an accident. and thats what we're talking about right?
![tard](https://mbworld.org/forums/images/smilies/tard.gif)
"It's stronger then a convertible, but not as strong as a solid roof sheet."
Again... I dont agree. since the 'solid roof sheet' isn't really solid and wont do much in case of an accident. and thats what we're talking about right?
![tard](https://mbworld.org/forums/images/smilies/tard.gif)
Here's a project for you. Take 5 toothpicks, and glue them into a square with one horizontal through the middle. Then crush it. Stand the project on end, and press down on a corner. Now do it again, but take a sheet of construction paper, and glue the paper to the toothpicks, around the outside, and down the middle (to represent the sheet metal welded to the crossmembers). Then crush it like the first. The second will be harder to break. It's more rigid, with some imagination, this could represent the pano roof version no pano.
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08' BMW E92 Coupe
Originally Posted by Jim Banville
The dark tint that will be aplied to the rear window of my car + rear sun shade probably equals seeing nothing out my rear view mirror.
#42
Originally Posted by nukblazi
Nope, we're discussing Chassis Rigidity. No?
Here's a project for you. Take 5 toothpicks, and glue them into a square with one horizontal through the middle. Then crush it. Stand the project on end, and press down on a corner. Now do it again, but take a sheet of construction paper, and glue the paper to the toothpicks, around the outside, and down the middle (to represent the sheet metal welded to the crossmembers). Then crush it like the first. The second will be harder to break. It's more rigid, with some imagination, this could represent the pano roof version no pano.
Here's a project for you. Take 5 toothpicks, and glue them into a square with one horizontal through the middle. Then crush it. Stand the project on end, and press down on a corner. Now do it again, but take a sheet of construction paper, and glue the paper to the toothpicks, around the outside, and down the middle (to represent the sheet metal welded to the crossmembers). Then crush it like the first. The second will be harder to break. It's more rigid, with some imagination, this could represent the pano roof version no pano.
Ah okay, then I'm not the one whose lost after all
![Smilie](https://mbworld.org/forums/images/smilies/smile.gif)
And in fact, your example just proved that you have no idea what your talking about :P
Originally Posted by nukblazi
take a sheet of construction paper, and glue the paper to the toothpicks, around the outside, and down the middle (to represent the sheet metal welded to the crossmembers). Then crush it like the first.
That’s how cars are constructed. Well, if you’re talking about bulletproof cars then I maybe wrong.
You still think I’m a moron who has no idea what he’s talking about, don’t you? LOL.
This is really engineering 101 and I’ll be graduating in a year. So if I’m talking crap then that’s a disaster :p
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Originally Posted by Oil Change
Ah okay, then I'm not the one whose lost after all ![Smilie](https://mbworld.org/forums/images/smilies/smile.gif)
And in fact, your example just proved that you have no idea what your talking about :P
its not sheet of construction paper, its more like a normal paper. Yes normal paper and with little force you'll penetrate it leaving the toothpicks intact.
That’s how cars are constructed. Well, if you’re talking about bulletproof cars then I maybe wrong.
You still think I’m a moron who has no idea what he’s talking about, don’t you? LOL.
This is really engineering 101 and I’ll be graduating in a year. So if I’m talking crap then that’s a disaster :p
![Smilie](https://mbworld.org/forums/images/smilies/smile.gif)
And in fact, your example just proved that you have no idea what your talking about :P
its not sheet of construction paper, its more like a normal paper. Yes normal paper and with little force you'll penetrate it leaving the toothpicks intact.
That’s how cars are constructed. Well, if you’re talking about bulletproof cars then I maybe wrong.
You still think I’m a moron who has no idea what he’s talking about, don’t you? LOL.
This is really engineering 101 and I’ll be graduating in a year. So if I’m talking crap then that’s a disaster :p
![Smilie](https://mbworld.org/forums/images/smilies/smile.gif)
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#44
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'06 Lexus GS300 RWD, '07 Camry SE V6 auto, '91 190E 2.6 auto
Oil change, maybe you'll understand this: take four 2x4's and use them to create a square on the ground. Nail the ends together, just like if you were making a children's sandbox. Now "racK" it (press in on one of the corners). Without much force, your square will no longer be "square". It will take on a diamond shape. Now, make it square again and nail a square sheet of thin metal to the top of it (like putting lid on a box). NOW try to "rack" it. You won't be able to.
#45
Originally Posted by Jim Banville
Oil change, maybe you'll understand this: take four 2x4's and use them to create a square on the ground. Nail the ends together, just like if you were making a children's sandbox. Now "racK" it (press in on one of the corners). Without much force, your square will no longer be "square". It will take on a diamond shape. Now, make it square again and nail a square sheet of thin metal to the top of it (like putting lid on a box). NOW try to "rack" it. You won't be able to.
and i have nothing to add beyond thing.
#46
All of this noise about structural rigidity with/without a sunroof is just that - noise. The real issue should be one of survivability. Most car accidents cause sheet metal compression in the front, rear or sides. I don't know of many accidents where the roof of the car is hit unless an aircraft falls on you. The simple rules of vehicle dynamics 101 says that speed is the greatest determinator of your survival - not the fact that you don't have a sunroof. Lets keep it real.
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Originally Posted by viper
All of this noise about structural rigidity with/without a sunroof is just that - noise. The real issue should be one of survivability. Most car accidents cause sheet metal compression in the front, rear or sides. I don't know of many accidents where the roof of the car is hit unless an aircraft falls on you. The simple rules of vehicle dynamics 101 says that speed is the greatest determinator of your survival - not the fact that you don't have a sunroof. Lets keep it real.
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Oil Change... so how do they affix the piece of sheet metal to the single structure?
#48
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The text of my sig loads much faster and uses less bandwidth than some of the big pictures in some people's sigs. Or do you whine about them too? ![crazy](https://mbworld.org/forums/images/smilies/crazy.gif)
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#49
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I think you guys are arguing two different things. Having a sunroof may weaken structural rigidity slightly but not significantly enough to make any real difference to a person driving a car under ordinary driving conditions on a street. The argument may be different for someone using their car for autocross in which case the analogies drawn above may be relevant. Those appear to be the 2 lines of argument each of you are using.
Therefore, anyone arguing that having no sunroof on an ordinary road is going to make any real difference is, with respect, being a little paranoid (unless you race around the streets)...But having no sunroof certainly makes sense if you are autocrossing.
In terms of roof creaking, obviously rigidity is a facctor but I would think that is more a function of the design of the roof...my Pano did squeak when I first got the car, had it looked at and now it is fine. Three of our other 4 cars have sunroofs and none of them have ever had any problems.
At the end of the day, you don't have to justify why you want or don't want a sunroof...if you don't like them that's reason enough not to get one.
Therefore, anyone arguing that having no sunroof on an ordinary road is going to make any real difference is, with respect, being a little paranoid (unless you race around the streets)...But having no sunroof certainly makes sense if you are autocrossing.
In terms of roof creaking, obviously rigidity is a facctor but I would think that is more a function of the design of the roof...my Pano did squeak when I first got the car, had it looked at and now it is fine. Three of our other 4 cars have sunroofs and none of them have ever had any problems.
At the end of the day, you don't have to justify why you want or don't want a sunroof...if you don't like them that's reason enough not to get one.
#50
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E320
If you get trapped in your car from both sides, and you have a sunroof, you can still crawl out. Without it you can't. ![Big Grin](https://mbworld.org/forums/images/smilies/biggrin.gif)
But come on... if you drive an auto, WTF you care about the extra rigidity. Not like your car's a race car... It's like a fat guy order 3 big macs with an order of diet coke.
![Big Grin](https://mbworld.org/forums/images/smilies/biggrin.gif)
But come on... if you drive an auto, WTF you care about the extra rigidity. Not like your car's a race car... It's like a fat guy order 3 big macs with an order of diet coke.