FrankW

soon?? they already have...it's called the mkV Golf GT. 1.6L supercharged and turbocharged.

Viper's truck V10 vs SLR's s/c V8 and turbo's f-6 turbo are apples and oranges. you can argue the viper doesn't make efficient HP, but you can also argue it makes insane amount of efficient torque.

guess how much the C55's 5.4 V8 weights compare to the C32's supercharged V6? they only differ by 50lbs while the C32 engine is top heavy.

nlpamg

magazine racing FTMFL! my Motor Trend will pwn your Road and Track! no, no, I have a subscription to Luxury & Exotics!

Drop-a-Daimler

Oh no, the gang has found another thread about reviews! We need a virtual grudge match, magazine street racing vs arm chair quarterbacking!

drexappeal

Since this is more of a discussion about the w204, I'm moving it there.

oblu

From an outsider's point of view (BMW owner) I'd don't see the w204 c350 as anything but normal operating procedure. I view MB as extremely conservative outside of the AMG models ... and even then conservative compared to M products. For what it's worth, if it were my money, I'd buy the AMG product over the M.

So for them to come to the table with <300hp when the competition has more, doesn't seem all that outrageous.

But then, I got my driver's license in the 80's. Anything <7.0 0-60 is plenty fast to me so I tend not to worry so much about magazine #'s, and hp ratings.

I wouldn't think the stereotypical MB buyers cars that much about #'s either.

MB Fanatic

wait till 09 or late 08 to see the new direct injection V6 that mercedes has been touting. Then I am sure we will see numbers more in line with the competition. But remember that the Benz also caters to an entirely different croud than that of the BMW.

PUMes

Give it a rest. This is only the first year and you guys are already beating up on the car....

I'm 95% sure the W203 C350 R&T tested was not an auto, but a six speed manual.

It should be considered that there's the 350 CGI engine(currently makes 292hp) that is sure to be tuned to be more performance oriented in the W204. It seems like some of you are expecting this car to be a 3 series, it's not, never will be. It will ride and drive like an MB should, and offers the driver just enough "sportiness" to offer the best compromise, and it works perfectly, I believe. Aside from that I'm grateful that they have given the consumer two styles to choose from to suit different tastes, both hold true to the MB philosophy at the same time. If the "sport" model is not enough for you you're probably better off driving a BMW, or if you can afford it, a C63.

Bionic Man

The MB brand is simply a social status symbol. Period. That's what you pay for. MB added a touch of sportiness to lure younger buyers like myself. I know full well that the BMW is a better sports sedan, and that the Lexus is better in terms of reliability. I know that similar features can be had for less with an Audi or a Saab, like AWD. I know that you can more power, room, and fuel economy with a Nissan or a Toyota. Mercedes is a Mercedes. Period. Even when the reliability has fallen to dead last compared to all other makes, People are still flocking to MB dealerships to get their hands on their MB. I did. I know that the superior social status may be illusory, and if that should ever falter, MB sales will plummet, a la Cadillac. Until then, its still a Mercedes, baby. Nuff said.

PUMes

So if you think MB is the choice of only the shallow....why are you here? You're entitled to your opinion but keep in mind where you're posting it. MB is more than a status symbol, but I wouldn't expect someone who doesn't know diddly squat about cars to get that. I'm sorry, but I could only see someone who'd say such a thing as being shallow themselves, perhaps you were having an honest moment? You've been pardoned.

Bionic Man

Nah, it has nothing to do with shallow. Its whats being marketed. MB can build a car superior in every way to any other manufacturer if they really wanted to. They are working within their niche market and expanding it one step at a time. You taking offense to my last post reveals something about yourself, no? The topic is about someone's beef with the new C-class, and all I"m saying is that we are the niche market for MB. We are their target customers. If you want acceleration, get a mustang. If you want reliability, get a lexus. If you want the performance of a BMW, get that. The MB does offer something more than the competition besides numbers. If you understand this intangible aspect, then you get my point. So do not be offended.

By the way, I've been involved in cars since I was a kid, I raced them with my dad, and I'm a mechanical engineer by training. I have friends who work for performance parts companies and at GM. I've had more cars pass through my garage than you can count. American, Japanese, German. 1968-present. Derby, straight line, street (well I grew out of that). I might know more than diddly. I'm a hobbyist like yourself. Thank you for your pardon.

Z O O R O P A

Your first post is spot on Bionic, well said

PUMes

I can only go based off of what I read, hence my initial response. Was a bit of a jerk, I'll admit. I apologize.

This is my position, and forgive me if you feel what I'm saying deviates from the point your trying to convey: If MB were purely a "social status symbol" then they'd make objects of no substance(based off of my interpretation of the term "status symbol"). This is obviously not the case. People respond favorably to Mercedes Benz because of the companies legacy that remains completely or largely unmatched by any of the competitor(need I go into details?), reliable vehicles or not(Social preception is entirely subjective and correlates directly with individual values). MB had serious quality issues that were previously never associated w/ the brand, for several years. There's much being done to correct this, and we're now just seeing the fruition of these efforts. So to write off the W204 as some half hearted attempt at a "sports sedan" and bound to be "unreliable" is extremely presumptuous. From the time I've spent w/ this car(quite a bit for not owning one) I not only see but feel a very soundly constructed and engineered car, that I also find an absolute blast to drive. If you want a sporty drive, get a 3er, that's what BMW's are all about. If you want a dynamic, but smooth compromise between ride and handling, get an MB, that's what MB's are all about.

O yeh, I'm a die hard car nut if there ever was one.

oblu

I don't get that bit. What? Does that mean we can only post glowing praise of all things MB? Just because it's a benz doesn't make it the best product in the market place.

I've spent about an hour so far in the showroom poking around the new C and I've found a lot of little things they've done to cut costs. That's fine, I can be objective about it.

I would hope other people could too without falling into fandom.

PUMes

Well, I most certainly wouldn't go around ******* Lexus cars on ClubLexus, or Audi's on Fourtitude or Audiworld.

MB, or any other brand that matter is far, far, far from un-flawed. To imply that MB is a car that the status conscious buy implies that those are in fact, the only people that buy MB's, and that is not true. I can't imagine every MB owner would like to be referred to that way, Of course one is always entitled to his/her opinions, by all means, in the same manner others are also entitled with their responses, favorable/unfavorable.

Germancar1

Interesting thread. I too would like to see about 320hp for the C350 and 265 for the C300, i.e. class leading figures, but such hp figures will have to wait until the 2009 model year. The SLK is up for a facelift and it is to be shown at either Frankfurt (Sept) or L.A. (Nov) and the SLK350's engine will be the engine of record for all of the "350" cars. Rumors put it at 306hp.

That said I think some here are getting too caught up on magazine figures. Those great numbers for last year's C350 Sport were with a manual tranny and different tires like others have said. Car and Driver has also brought this up, but they didn't make as much of a big deal out of it, they just pointed it out like R&T did. Folks we don't have the best C-Class Mercedes can offer just year, it sucks, but I'm afraid the "wait till next year" excuse applies here.

M

oblu

Unfortunately, I have to think that the real-world truth is 99.9% of all luxury, or near-luxury, buyers are badge buyers. They see the marketing, they buy into the marketing, and then they buy the product. Enthusiasts, here on internet boards and out in the real world that do their homework, make up a fractional percentage of buyers.

PUMes

10-4. I'm speaking for the "fractional percentage"