Ways to get out of Photo Enforced tickets
09-05-2010, 04:50 PM
#76
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No, not a joke...a strategy. I think California officials are trying to figure out how high fines have to be to get the attention of violators. Apparently, with the irritation you are showing, they may be getting close in your case. When the fines are high enough that most folks realize yellow means stop if you can because red is coming, and is not a challenge to beat the imminent red, or roll through a right during a red, they will likely level off. Safety and financial managers will agree that when there is a "high demand" for red light traffic tickets, the proper answer is to raise the price!!
Bottom line, how much financial penalty has to be threatened for California drivers (and doesn't it seem the complaints are mostly Southern Calfornia?) to change their behavior? Here's one interesting solution that tries to make it "fair" for people with different incomes:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-10960230
09-05-2010, 05:15 PM
#77
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'08 C300 Lux Barolo Red Beige Leather P2 MM 18" wheels '84 944
I just got the same ticket in the mail yesterday -- for making a right turn on "red" without stopping. The fine is $466. That is the same fine as going straight through red, which is very dangerous.
According to the ticket, the light was red for .25 seconds when I turned.
From my perspective, which is low to the ground, I absolutely turned right on yellow. I am not a bird or giraffe or omniscient being. I cannot see the line of demarcation the same way that such a being (or overhead camera) can.
There were no signs posted.
It didn't even occur to me that I was turning right on “red.”
I have lived in LA for six years and have never been pulled over here. I have a clean record. I have never had any points on my record.
I don't typically look for cameras. They rarely enter my consciousness. I only notice them if there is a sign. There was no sign in this situation. There are some at random spots in the city, but not at every place where there is a camera.
Even if there had been a sign, I doubt I would have done anything different because to me, the light was yellow. But I will never know, because there was (and is) no sign.
If they are going to use such means to raise money for the city (the motivation is not safety; accidents are actually up at a majority of the 32 photo-enforced intersections in LA) they should raise it more equitably. They should not purposefully target and trap people. What they have implemented is a regressive tax. When you raise money in a way that disproportionately impacts low income people, you have implemented a regressive tax.
After reading several comments on this thread, I am surprised at how judgmental and shaming people are, saying things like 'be a man' and 'take responsibility.' Instead of judging and shaming, perhaps you might instead think more critically and have compassion. Things are not that simple.
A right turn on a light that has been deemed red for one fourth of a second is not 'irresponsible.' Especially when there is no one else on the road and no pedestrians in sight.
These cameras target neighborhoods that have high concentrations of certain demographics that are less likely to fight.
There should be a sliding scale for fees. Going STRAIGHT through a light that has been red for 2 seconds, which is VERY dangerous, should be a lot more expensive than turning right on a light that been red for .25 seconds.
I will fight my ticket. I have several bona fide arguments. I won't be one who just shuts up and pays a fine for fear of retribution. This country was not founded on that principle. It was not founded on entrapment and extortion.
According to the ticket, the light was red for .25 seconds when I turned.
From my perspective, which is low to the ground, I absolutely turned right on yellow. I am not a bird or giraffe or omniscient being. I cannot see the line of demarcation the same way that such a being (or overhead camera) can.
There were no signs posted.
It didn't even occur to me that I was turning right on “red.”
I have lived in LA for six years and have never been pulled over here. I have a clean record. I have never had any points on my record.
I don't typically look for cameras. They rarely enter my consciousness. I only notice them if there is a sign. There was no sign in this situation. There are some at random spots in the city, but not at every place where there is a camera.
Even if there had been a sign, I doubt I would have done anything different because to me, the light was yellow. But I will never know, because there was (and is) no sign.
If they are going to use such means to raise money for the city (the motivation is not safety; accidents are actually up at a majority of the 32 photo-enforced intersections in LA) they should raise it more equitably. They should not purposefully target and trap people. What they have implemented is a regressive tax. When you raise money in a way that disproportionately impacts low income people, you have implemented a regressive tax.
After reading several comments on this thread, I am surprised at how judgmental and shaming people are, saying things like 'be a man' and 'take responsibility.' Instead of judging and shaming, perhaps you might instead think more critically and have compassion. Things are not that simple.
A right turn on a light that has been deemed red for one fourth of a second is not 'irresponsible.' Especially when there is no one else on the road and no pedestrians in sight.
These cameras target neighborhoods that have high concentrations of certain demographics that are less likely to fight.
There should be a sliding scale for fees. Going STRAIGHT through a light that has been red for 2 seconds, which is VERY dangerous, should be a lot more expensive than turning right on a light that been red for .25 seconds.
I will fight my ticket. I have several bona fide arguments. I won't be one who just shuts up and pays a fine for fear of retribution. This country was not founded on that principle. It was not founded on entrapment and extortion.
09-05-2010, 05:17 PM
#78
MBWorld Fanatic!
That def is not in the council members thoughts when raising traffic fine violations...it's all about profit and city debt. They are trying to maximize profits without causing civil unrest otherwise every violation will be 500-1000$ with their excuse being safety #1 (yea sure....).
When they raised the carpool from 271 to 356, I doubt the majority of people using the carpool lane illegally were thinking well 271 isn't that bad, but now since its 354 I better think about it and I guarantee officials weren't thinking well maybe an 80$ increase will lower the amount of violators because it's not about safety in the case. Raising parking violations from 30 to 50+ in the last 5-10 years isn't supposed to dissuade people from parking illegally its about profit. One more example is changing .25 cents at parking meters in LAC from 30 mins to 15mins (1 dollar per hour) 2 years ago. It's all about money.
If they just raised fees on safety violations (speeding, running reds, DWI, etc.) I might agree, but it's 2010 who really trusts their city council, mayor, etc.
When they raised the carpool from 271 to 356, I doubt the majority of people using the carpool lane illegally were thinking well 271 isn't that bad, but now since its 354 I better think about it and I guarantee officials weren't thinking well maybe an 80$ increase will lower the amount of violators because it's not about safety in the case. Raising parking violations from 30 to 50+ in the last 5-10 years isn't supposed to dissuade people from parking illegally its about profit. One more example is changing .25 cents at parking meters in LAC from 30 mins to 15mins (1 dollar per hour) 2 years ago. It's all about money.
If they just raised fees on safety violations (speeding, running reds, DWI, etc.) I might agree, but it's 2010 who really trusts their city council, mayor, etc.
An old topic that somehow never goes away...............
No, not a joke...a strategy. I think California officials are trying to figure out how high fines have to be to get the attention of violators. Apparently, with the irritation you are showing, they may be getting close in your case. When the fines are high enough that most folks realize yellow means stop if you can because red is coming, and is not a challenge to beat the imminent red, or roll through a right during a red, they will likely level off. Safety and financial managers will agree that when there is a "high demand" for red light traffic tickets, the proper answer is to raise the price!!
Bottom line, how much financial penalty has to be threatened for California drivers (and doesn't it seem the complaints are mostly Southern Calfornia?) to change their behavior? Here's one interesting solution that tries to make it "fair" for people with different incomes:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-10960230
No, not a joke...a strategy. I think California officials are trying to figure out how high fines have to be to get the attention of violators. Apparently, with the irritation you are showing, they may be getting close in your case. When the fines are high enough that most folks realize yellow means stop if you can because red is coming, and is not a challenge to beat the imminent red, or roll through a right during a red, they will likely level off. Safety and financial managers will agree that when there is a "high demand" for red light traffic tickets, the proper answer is to raise the price!!
Bottom line, how much financial penalty has to be threatened for California drivers (and doesn't it seem the complaints are mostly Southern Calfornia?) to change their behavior? Here's one interesting solution that tries to make it "fair" for people with different incomes:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-10960230
Last edited by BerBer63; 09-05-2010 at 05:21 PM.
09-05-2010, 05:23 PM
#79
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c350
An old topic that somehow never goes away...............
No, not a joke...a strategy. I think California officials are trying to figure out how high fines have to be to get the attention of violators. Apparently, with the irritation you are showing, they may be getting close in your case. When the fines are high enough that most folks realize yellow means stop if you can because red is coming, and is not a challenge to beat the imminent red, or roll through a right during a red, they will likely level off. Safety and financial managers will agree that when there is a "high demand" for red light traffic tickets, the proper answer is to raise the price!!
Bottom line, how much financial penalty has to be threatened for California drivers (and doesn't it seem the complaints are mostly Southern Calfornia?) to change their behavior? Here's one interesting solution that tries to make it "fair" for people with different incomes:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-10960230
No, not a joke...a strategy. I think California officials are trying to figure out how high fines have to be to get the attention of violators. Apparently, with the irritation you are showing, they may be getting close in your case. When the fines are high enough that most folks realize yellow means stop if you can because red is coming, and is not a challenge to beat the imminent red, or roll through a right during a red, they will likely level off. Safety and financial managers will agree that when there is a "high demand" for red light traffic tickets, the proper answer is to raise the price!!
Bottom line, how much financial penalty has to be threatened for California drivers (and doesn't it seem the complaints are mostly Southern Calfornia?) to change their behavior? Here's one interesting solution that tries to make it "fair" for people with different incomes:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-10960230
Only irritation to me is the high penalties, I guess speeders in other states can learn their lesson by paying 50$ but we have to learn by paying 400$. When I get a ticket I pay and move on(It's also nice to have an uncle in CHP in my town
), it's just ridiculous that the fees are only going up to compensate for bad gov spending. By your statement "how much financial penalty has to be threatened for California drivers (and doesn't it seem the complaints are mostly Southern Calfornia?) to change their behavior?" I guess only california has violators that never learn there lesson? Fees in other states are pretty low and I'm sure they get just as many violators. If you were a resident of California you would know CHP in nor-cal is a joke compared to So-cal. On top of So-cal having most of the people traffic.
If it were based off income that would be a good start. But I can see a few flaws in that.
09-05-2010, 05:25 PM
#80
MBWorld Fanatic!
We can't blame newbs for reviving old threads with pertinent experience and slam them for not STFF at the same time...I don't see the issue. It's better than starting a new thread. At least it wasn't a "**** pigs" comment or a 
09-05-2010, 06:00 PM
#81
MBWorld Fanatic!
Everyone who said man up and pay needs to live in California and then say that. Paying double or triple the amounts of everyone else because of "safety" is a joke. Every year in the LA times there is an article about raising parking meter cost, ticket cost, violation cost, taxes, fees and everything else under the sun so they can make revenue for the city. 50$ for a ticket? pssh thats not even the price for tinted windows here.
09-05-2010, 06:02 PM
#82
MBWorld Fanatic!
+1...I guess it's damned if you do and damned if you don't. It's nice to see some newbs do a search.
09-06-2010, 06:48 PM
#83
Super Member
) whereas in California, they are considered "infractions" and those drop off your record in 3 years...Anyone who has an issue with fines being too expensive, should contact their state's legislature and voice their opinion. But to claim "I'm not guilty because the fine is too high"... That is not a viable defense!
09-07-2010, 02:59 AM
#84
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All of these tickets are getting out of hand. Just last year NYC raised roughly $800 million in just parking and red light tickets (non-moving violations).
Nassau county is getting terrible also, I was driving on Old Country Road from Hofstra, and in the last year, they put up red light cameras on many of the intersections of old country road. I probably got like 2 tickets already from one day, and to be honest, its not like I was practicing unsafe driving. It was rush hour, and everyone is moving like 40mph, and all of a sudden this guy slows down to 5-10mph to make a turn into a parking lot and everyone slows/stops and I get stuck in the intersection, knowing it was a red light camera intersection, I quickly tried to pass and get out of the intersection in time. Keep in mind that I entered the intersection when it was green, not yellow... If I get a ticket for that I will be furious and dismantle all the red light cameras on Long Island. I wouldn't even be mad if I wasn't 100% sure I got a prior red light ticket on that same road about 5 minutes earlier due to an emergency vehicle, again, me getting stuck in the intersection.
This is all just so crazy and retarded, it would be one thing if they gave you one or two strikes first or something. I wouldn't even be that pissed about these things if I was actually in the wrong. I have gotten a pretty big speeding ticket before for a 78 in a 55, and I didn't fight it and just paid the fine because I was being foolish and really was in the wrong, $500 later I learned my lesson. But this did not teach me any lesson besides not to drive on that road anymore... The world is all going down the drain...
There are too many variables to allow red light cameras to give fines. What if my car broke down or I got in an accident and my car was un-movable from the intersection. Would I get a red-light ticket every time the light turned red from a cop? I don't think so, but I bet you a red light camera would...
Nassau county is getting terrible also, I was driving on Old Country Road from Hofstra, and in the last year, they put up red light cameras on many of the intersections of old country road. I probably got like 2 tickets already from one day, and to be honest, its not like I was practicing unsafe driving. It was rush hour, and everyone is moving like 40mph, and all of a sudden this guy slows down to 5-10mph to make a turn into a parking lot and everyone slows/stops and I get stuck in the intersection, knowing it was a red light camera intersection, I quickly tried to pass and get out of the intersection in time. Keep in mind that I entered the intersection when it was green, not yellow... If I get a ticket for that I will be furious and dismantle all the red light cameras on Long Island. I wouldn't even be mad if I wasn't 100% sure I got a prior red light ticket on that same road about 5 minutes earlier due to an emergency vehicle, again, me getting stuck in the intersection.
This is all just so crazy and retarded, it would be one thing if they gave you one or two strikes first or something. I wouldn't even be that pissed about these things if I was actually in the wrong. I have gotten a pretty big speeding ticket before for a 78 in a 55, and I didn't fight it and just paid the fine because I was being foolish and really was in the wrong, $500 later I learned my lesson. But this did not teach me any lesson besides not to drive on that road anymore... The world is all going down the drain...
There are too many variables to allow red light cameras to give fines. What if my car broke down or I got in an accident and my car was un-movable from the intersection. Would I get a red-light ticket every time the light turned red from a cop? I don't think so, but I bet you a red light camera would...
Last edited by jctevere; 09-07-2010 at 03:56 AM.
09-08-2010, 10:39 AM
#85
Super Member
09-08-2010, 11:25 AM
#86
Th's is the reason why I stop and do not make a turn until it is green. Some people honk but I don't care they won't pay my fine for me. Plus I don't trust those cameras even if I make a full stop. Of course in my plateless Benz I'm more relaxed.
09-10-2010, 11:23 PM
#87
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I referred to them as non-moving violations because they are treated as non moving violations -- at least in new york. They can't prove who is driving the vehicle, thus, you get no points on your license, only pay a fine, just like non-moving violations.
