Production & Assembly question
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From: 714
CLS 550 / C300 S
Production & Assembly question
I just wanted to know if mercedes benz vehicles were still made in germany and then shipped, or are mbz vehicles being produced and assembled in north america?
on a side note, I'm WAY out-dated and I have no knowledge of vehicles so please dont flame up. I did do some research and looked at my VIN number, and it looks like it was produced in germany. Is there any other way to check/confirm its production/assembly?
I have an '08 c300.
Thanks and Good Day.
on a side note, I'm WAY out-dated and I have no knowledge of vehicles so please dont flame up. I did do some research and looked at my VIN number, and it looks like it was produced in germany. Is there any other way to check/confirm its production/assembly?
I have an '08 c300.
Thanks and Good Day.
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Another round of ICE
MB vehicles are produced in different countries around the world for various markets, including Germany, South Africa, China, and North America. In particular, M, R, and GL Class vehicles are produced in North America in Tuscaloosa, Alabama. MB has announced that the next generation C Class will begin assembly in North America in 2014. Quality is a function of engineering and assembly standards and practices created by a manufacturer. Although there have been myths and "conventional wisdom" that assembly in some countries automatically means better quality....data and experience have proven this is not the case. For example, the plant in South Africa recently demonstrated higher quality scores than Germany for C Class assembly, although with C Class winning the 2010 JDPower Initial Quality prize for its segment, they are all quite well built.
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From: Bergen County, NJ, USA
2010 C300 6 Speed M/T
I believe all the C classes sold in the US are made in Germany. The VIN code of mine is for Germany. I don't think they are built in Germany and transported here CKD for assembly either. Funny thing though being half Brazilian found out that Mercedes does make cars in Brazil, besides the sub C classes they build a coupe version of the C. I researched and it's basically the previous version w203 coupe with the front of the current w204 called the CLC
From the Brazilian MB website: http://www.mercedes-benz.com.br/Mode...189&produto=52
From the Brazilian MB website: http://www.mercedes-benz.com.br/Mode...189&produto=52
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Another round of ICE
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2010 C300 4matic
Mine was built in South Africa too.
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From: Pacific Northwest, USA
2010 C300 4MATIC/P2, 2002 Volvo V70XC, 1993 Volvo 850 GLT
Mine starts with "W", and the 7th to last digit is "F", so it's German built. I guess the easier way to tell is to look at the sticker inside the driver's door... it clearly says, "Made in Germany" on mine. Does yours say, "Made in Sough Africa?" I drive the 2010 C300 4MATIC too, not sure what makes yours made in South Africa and mine Germany.
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From: Bergen County, NJ, USA
2010 C300 6 Speed M/T
Just checked and sure enough my 2010 is an "R" (corrected! thanks Matt) and the door says "Made in South Africa". While I have no prejudice about where it was made had I known it would have affected my decision when I got the car in June... I am a little peeved. I might shoot an email to Mercedes to see what they have to say about it. I didn't only want German engineering, I wanted a German automobile. Okay, maybe you may think I am being silly, but it's my prerogative how I want to spend my hard earned money... Thanks for ruining my day :-) It's not that bad, just adding a little drama...
Last edited by dumontmb; Aug 11, 2010 at 04:39 PM.
Junior Member
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From: Bergen County, NJ, USA
2010 C300 6 Speed M/T
Thread Starter
Junior Member
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From: 714
CLS 550 / C300 S
thanks for all the replies...
It seems as mine is from south africa...
While I was really hoping that it was made in germany, i guess south africa will do?
I guess sportstick's 2 cents made me more confident about my car being from south africa.
"...the plant in South Africa recently demonstrated higher quality scores than Germany for C Class assembly, although with C Class winning the 2010 JDPower Initial Quality prize for its segment, they are all quite well built."
It seems as mine is from south africa...
While I was really hoping that it was made in germany, i guess south africa will do?
I guess sportstick's 2 cents made me more confident about my car being from south africa.
"...the plant in South Africa recently demonstrated higher quality scores than Germany for C Class assembly, although with C Class winning the 2010 JDPower Initial Quality prize for its segment, they are all quite well built."
Newbie
Joined: Aug 2010
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From: Pacific Northwest, USA
2010 C300 4MATIC/P2, 2002 Volvo V70XC, 1993 Volvo 850 GLT
Just checked and sure enough my 2010 is an "R" (corrected! thanks Matt) and the door says "Made in South Africa". While I have no prejudice about where it was made had I known it would have affected my decision when I got the car in June... I am a little peeved. I might shoot an email to Mercedes to see what they have to say about it. I didn't only want German engineering, I wanted a German automobile. Okay, maybe you may think I am being silly, but it's my prerogative how I want to spend my hard earned money... Thanks for ruining my day :-) It's not that bad, just adding a little drama...
This is probably why the SA assembled cars rate higher than the German counterparts in terms of quality.So love your MB, it loves you
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C350 Elegance
My, my... The only label I found on the driver's side is a saffron label that reads "Made with recycled South African parts assembled at the Free Zone of Tibet International Airport with labor recruited by devote fund raisers by permission of the Yugo Corporation".
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From: Pacific Northwest, USA
2010 C300 4MATIC/P2, 2002 Volvo V70XC, 1993 Volvo 850 GLT
Here's the label from my 2010 C300 4MATIC. If you're in a market and want either Germany or South Africa, look inside the driver's door for the label.
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Another round of ICE
Just checked and sure enough my 2010 is an "R" (corrected! thanks Matt) and the door says "Made in South Africa". While I have no prejudice about where it was made had I known it would have affected my decision when I got the car in June... I am a little peeved. I might shoot an email to Mercedes to see what they have to say about it. I didn't only want German engineering, I wanted a German automobile. Okay, maybe you may think I am being silly, but it's my prerogative how I want to spend my hard earned money... Thanks for ruining my day :-) It's not that bad, just adding a little drama...
Seriously, what makes this "German" is the design and engineering which created the car within the team at MB. Those same folks then set the assembly standards and practices, allowing a plant to be located anywhere on the planet, yet still produce a "German" vehicle. Otherwise, many Hyundais are not Korean, Hondas/Toyotas not Japanese, and many GM/Ford/Chrysler cars not American, but "Mexican" or "Canadian" cars!?!?!?!
Also, if you have an "Elves in Black Forest" fantasy vision of the assembly line, also keep in mind that much of the German workforce has emigrated from other countries. So, for both supply and assembly, we live in an international market.
Bottom line: Enjoy your German designed,engineered and assembly-standardized Mercedes Benz!!
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From: Homeless
'20 Targa 4 DD, ' 18 Volvo S60 T6
It is next to impossible to immigrate to Germany unless one is an ultra rare super scientist etc and the gov't invites you. Also next to impossible to get a German work permit unless you are a very rare professional or in mass shortage.
They don't give out passports and work permits to any yahoo like they do in N. America.
Unlike the USA - Germany does not use immigrants; closest will be 2nd or 3rd generation Turks.
Also, lots of parts will be sourced from USA when production starts in USA. This is where quality will drop.
Plus - USA workers are a complete pain because it's easy to sue the employer for anything. For that reason alone MB will not be able to affect the same work or quality standards as they can in Germany or S. Africa.
A German car made in USA is not a German car. It's an American car branded with German make.
I laughed hard when this stupid guy I know told me he was waiting for his '10 ML from Germany - I did not have the heart to tell him he dropped big $ for a US made SUV.
Made in Germany is worth 20% premium to US made IMO: Just increase the price - too many people drive MB now anyway LOL
They don't give out passports and work permits to any yahoo like they do in N. America.
Unlike the USA - Germany does not use immigrants; closest will be 2nd or 3rd generation Turks.
Also, lots of parts will be sourced from USA when production starts in USA. This is where quality will drop.
Plus - USA workers are a complete pain because it's easy to sue the employer for anything. For that reason alone MB will not be able to affect the same work or quality standards as they can in Germany or S. Africa.
A German car made in USA is not a German car. It's an American car branded with German make.
I laughed hard when this stupid guy I know told me he was waiting for his '10 ML from Germany - I did not have the heart to tell him he dropped big $ for a US made SUV.
Made in Germany is worth 20% premium to US made IMO: Just increase the price - too many people drive MB now anyway LOL
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Another round of ICE
It is next to impossible to immigrate to Germany unless one is an ultra rare super scientist etc and the gov't invites you. Also next to impossible to get a German work permit unless you are a very rare professional or in mass shortage.
They don't give out passports and work permits to any yahoo like they do in N. America.
Unlike the USA - Germany does not use immigrants; closest will be 2nd or 3rd generation Turks.
Also, lots of parts will be sourced from USA when production starts in USA. This is where quality will drop.
Plus - USA workers are a complete pain because it's easy to sue the employer for anything. For that reason alone MB will not be able to affect the same work or quality standards as they can in Germany or S. Africa.
A German car made in USA is not a German car. It's an American car branded with German make.
I laughed hard when this stupid guy I know told me he was waiting for his '10 ML from Germany - I did not have the heart to tell him he dropped big $ for a US made SUV.
Made in Germany is worth 20% premium to US made IMO: Just increase the price - too many people drive MB now anyway LOL
They don't give out passports and work permits to any yahoo like they do in N. America.
Unlike the USA - Germany does not use immigrants; closest will be 2nd or 3rd generation Turks.
Also, lots of parts will be sourced from USA when production starts in USA. This is where quality will drop.
Plus - USA workers are a complete pain because it's easy to sue the employer for anything. For that reason alone MB will not be able to affect the same work or quality standards as they can in Germany or S. Africa.
A German car made in USA is not a German car. It's an American car branded with German make.
I laughed hard when this stupid guy I know told me he was waiting for his '10 ML from Germany - I did not have the heart to tell him he dropped big $ for a US made SUV.
Made in Germany is worth 20% premium to US made IMO: Just increase the price - too many people drive MB now anyway LOL
http://www.cceia.org/resources/transcripts/5280.html
BTW, Honda is already on record with US built products having achieved better quality than comparable Japanese sourced vehicles at some time periods, although close overall. Other examples abound, with some Ford products statistically equal to comparable products from overseas.......
There is also no statistical relevance nor connection between tort liability and quality products. If you have data (not more "IMO"), please provide a citation.
Having spent almost 30 years in the auto industry and been in a variety of plants, the comment on branding an American car with a German make is clearly another "IMO" without any basis in truth. A transplant assembly facility could be relocated anywhere, local workers trained according to the OE standards and practices, and maintain the OE identity. It's been and continues to be done. If you happen to buy any of the Ford/GM/Chrysler products from an assembly plant located in Canada, are you considering them products of the "Canadian auto industry"???
My family is half Canadian, half American.....I recognize the antagonism.
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From: Homeless
'20 Targa 4 DD, ' 18 Volvo S60 T6
I had an 07 Honda built in Canada - POS. Honda and Toyota have 100,000s recalls from their N. American plants and that's just the stuff they admit.
Regardless - Made in Germany commands a premium price. Made in USA does not.
Many companies have serious problems transplanting production - although the Germans are the best at it.
Just go check the state of a 5 year old ML VS 5 year old E class and tell me the quality is the same.
Regardless - Made in Germany commands a premium price. Made in USA does not.
Many companies have serious problems transplanting production - although the Germans are the best at it.
Just go check the state of a 5 year old ML VS 5 year old E class and tell me the quality is the same.
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Another round of ICE
I had an 07 Honda built in Canada - POS. Honda and Toyota have 100,000s recalls from their N. American plants and that's just the stuff they admit.
Regardless - Made in Germany commands a premium price. Made in USA does not.
Many companies have serious problems transplanting production - although the Germans are the best at it.
Just go check the state of a 5 year old ML VS 5 year old E class and tell me the quality is the same.
Regardless - Made in Germany commands a premium price. Made in USA does not.
Many companies have serious problems transplanting production - although the Germans are the best at it.
Just go check the state of a 5 year old ML VS 5 year old E class and tell me the quality is the same.
Defect investigations include a determination if the root cause was design or assembly. Even if assembly, the part does not care what language the person attached to the hands speaks. If the work was improper, the chain of causality starts at the top, and may result in a non-robust part design or poor training. The volume of recalls by Asian brands from N.A. plants simply reflects the location of the volume of assembly, not a higher likelihood for a Honda/Toyota plant in N.A. vs. Japan to make an error.
It's the company, its management, its design and engineering philosophy and practice, and not the geography. One word: Trabant.
Some struggle setting up transplants...some don't. MB plant in South Africa does outstanding work. So does the Hyundai plant in U.S. VW's Germans did not manage this as well with Rabbits in Pennsylvania, but may do better with their new plant in the near future. However, once a transplant is well managed, the vehicle reflects the OE design and engineering standards, and not its local geography.
Regarding ML v E, again, are we speaking of design or assembly issues? Many of the issues with the ML (had two of them) were design issues which were shipped overseas from Germany! So were some of the design issues with the E which at one time placed it among the least reliable cars produced. In both cases, the location of the plant was not the issue.
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Joined: Aug 2008
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From: Homeless
'20 Targa 4 DD, ' 18 Volvo S60 T6
That article relates mostly to history and post war immigration - true. However, even the 3rd generation Turks still don't have nationality and are only tolerated in society today.
Highly skilled workers, top-level managers, scientists, and academics are welcome with "premium sponsorship" from fortune corp or academia but they will never get nationality and will never work on a factory floor.
You will not find many foreigners working at premium mfg facilities at all and the ones that do are in menial jobs.
Highly skilled workers, top-level managers, scientists, and academics are welcome with "premium sponsorship" from fortune corp or academia but they will never get nationality and will never work on a factory floor.
You will not find many foreigners working at premium mfg facilities at all and the ones that do are in menial jobs.
Super Member
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 552
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From: Homeless
'20 Targa 4 DD, ' 18 Volvo S60 T6
Defect investigations include a determination if the root cause was design or assembly. Even if assembly, the part does not care what language the person attached to the hands speaks. If the work was improper, the chain of causality starts at the top, and may result in a non-robust part design or poor training. The volume of recalls by Asian brands from N.A. plants simply reflects the location of the volume of assembly, not a higher likelihood for a Honda/Toyota plant in N.A. vs. Japan to make an error.
It's the company, its management, its design and engineering philosophy and practice, and not the geography. One word: Trabant.
Some struggle setting up transplants...some don't. MB plant in South Africa does outstanding work. So does the Hyundai plant in U.S. VW's Germans did not manage this as well with Rabbits in Pennsylvania, but may do better with their new plant in the near future. However, once a transplant is well managed, the vehicle reflects the OE design and engineering standards, and not its local geography.
Regarding ML v E, again, are we speaking of design or assembly issues? Many of the issues with the ML (had two of them) were design issues which were shipped overseas from Germany! So were some of the design issues with the E which at one time placed it among the least reliable cars produced. In both cases, the location of the plant was not the issue.
It's the company, its management, its design and engineering philosophy and practice, and not the geography. One word: Trabant.
Some struggle setting up transplants...some don't. MB plant in South Africa does outstanding work. So does the Hyundai plant in U.S. VW's Germans did not manage this as well with Rabbits in Pennsylvania, but may do better with their new plant in the near future. However, once a transplant is well managed, the vehicle reflects the OE design and engineering standards, and not its local geography.
Regarding ML v E, again, are we speaking of design or assembly issues? Many of the issues with the ML (had two of them) were design issues which were shipped overseas from Germany! So were some of the design issues with the E which at one time placed it among the least reliable cars produced. In both cases, the location of the plant was not the issue.
I hope MB is successful - but I will never buy a USA made German car. Most people, like the guy I know, will never even know - they just assume it's made in Germany LOL.
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From: Bergen County, NJ, USA
2010 C300 6 Speed M/T
Yeah, okay, my blood pressure has gone down since yesterday and I'm calm now. I recognize the car built in SA is just as good as one built by Turkish immigrants in Germany :-) It was just that I wanted a "German" car, it's just psychological... I am in shipping (deal with cargoes on ships, not packages) and have close clients in SA and probably will get some brownie points when they come to visit ;-)
Funny, this is actually my second German car. My first was a 1987 Mercury Merkur XR4Ti (terrible name for a car that in the rest of the world was called Sierra) bought used in 1991, which was built in Cologne (they were also made in SA and Argentina, the "regular" Sierras were made mainly, IIRC, in England). But was that really a German car? It was a British design, manufactured by an American company and its engine was built by Ford Brazil and this particular model, again IIRC, was marketed only in North America. Also funny is that it was perfect for me, American born, half Brazilian and grandmother from Germany LOL. Build quality was okay at best but typical with Fords the electricals were the pits, the fuse box in the engine compartment loved to ingest water so invariably the car would not start because either a relay was shorting or a short depleted the battery. A blast to drive though... I'd have liked to hold on to it but it would have become a money pit.
As for Japanese cars built in Canada I think whiteongrey might have had a lemon, or maybe I got a good one. My last car was a 2008 Civic Si sedan built in Canada and it had zero defects, no wait the moon roof imploded one week after I got the car and was replaced by the dealer free of charge. On the Civic boards I frequented never heard of any major complaints about anything in particular although most regarded the Japanese built cars better… I only got rid of it since it was totaled in early June (driver side impact, no injuries) and by end June was in my C300.
Funny, this is actually my second German car. My first was a 1987 Mercury Merkur XR4Ti (terrible name for a car that in the rest of the world was called Sierra) bought used in 1991, which was built in Cologne (they were also made in SA and Argentina, the "regular" Sierras were made mainly, IIRC, in England). But was that really a German car? It was a British design, manufactured by an American company and its engine was built by Ford Brazil and this particular model, again IIRC, was marketed only in North America. Also funny is that it was perfect for me, American born, half Brazilian and grandmother from Germany LOL. Build quality was okay at best but typical with Fords the electricals were the pits, the fuse box in the engine compartment loved to ingest water so invariably the car would not start because either a relay was shorting or a short depleted the battery. A blast to drive though... I'd have liked to hold on to it but it would have become a money pit.
As for Japanese cars built in Canada I think whiteongrey might have had a lemon, or maybe I got a good one. My last car was a 2008 Civic Si sedan built in Canada and it had zero defects, no wait the moon roof imploded one week after I got the car and was replaced by the dealer free of charge. On the Civic boards I frequented never heard of any major complaints about anything in particular although most regarded the Japanese built cars better… I only got rid of it since it was totaled in early June (driver side impact, no injuries) and by end June was in my C300.
Last edited by dumontmb; Aug 12, 2010 at 02:07 PM. Reason: spelling
MBWorld Fanatic!
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From: Southwest USA
Another round of ICE
I think we've come full circle.....have a good day!
(P.S. I worked on the marketing launch of the Merkur XR4Ti and am glad to know you were (sometimes) happy with yours!)
(P.S. I worked on the marketing launch of the Merkur XR4Ti and am glad to know you were (sometimes) happy with yours!)
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'08 C300 Lux Barolo Red Beige Leather P2 MM 18" wheels '84 944
Just checked and sure enough my 2010 is an "R" (corrected! thanks Matt) and the door says "Made in South Africa". While I have no prejudice about where it was made had I known it would have affected my decision when I got the car in June... I am a little peeved. I might shoot an email to Mercedes to see what they have to say about it. I didn't only want German engineering, I wanted a German automobile. Okay, maybe you may think I am being silly, but it's my prerogative how I want to spend my hard earned money... Thanks for ruining my day :-) It's not that bad, just adding a little drama...
MB used to advertise "Engineered like no other car in the world" and those of us who bought them know what that really means. Oddly, I haven't seen that claim since the W203 and W211 debacles.
