dgghostkilla

so i been doing some research. as so of you might have read on my prior post im getting a sound system the end of this week. i been looking around for information about capacitors, extra batteries etc.

i got a response from a technician from JL audio regarding my setup.

this is my e-mail to him
I have a 2010 Mercedes C300 and I am having this installed in my car by a professional company. However I would like to do my own research so there is no surprises coming from them.
Jl 1000/1/v2
Jl slash 300/4v2
2 JL Audio 13TW5-3 13.5" subs
JL AUDIO CL-SSI CLEANSWEEP
JL Audio CL441DSP CleanSweep

my questions are

is this setup going to be too much power for my car battery?
what gauge wire should be used to this setup?
will i need an extra battery? i was looking at crutchfield and they got this real small car batteryies http://www.crutchfield.com/p_122D375/XS-… <http://www.crutchfield.com/p_122D375/XS-Power-D375.html?tp=36339>

my last question is do i need a capacitor? if so how big? i've read online and many people say capacitors are just useless and its just a waste of money. I just dont know period.
I dont plan on buying one but i do have one on my older car system which im pulling out regardless. Im not sure if its a .5 or 1 farad.

please forward the question to the right person. I would like to be better informed so I don't get overcharged for stuff that i don't need since i already spent alot of money buying the above equipment from cruchfield.

response from a JL audio technician regarding my setup.



Hello Daniel.

The full output, the current draw for the 1000/1v2 is 100 amps, and for the 300/4v2, 40 amps. So you’re adding 140 extra amps to car’s electrical system that it wasn’t designed to handle. I’d suggest looking into a high output alternator instead of batteries and capacitors. You’ll need at least a 2 gauge power kit, and I’d definitely upgrade your factory grounds and your alternator’s power wire as well. Let me know if you have any other questions.

dgghostkilla

for those of you that have subs in their cars or from somebody that knows about this type of thing. whats your take.

how much would it cost to upgrade the factory grounds and alternators power wire.

dgghostkilla

I also got this from another source

"before you buy anything make sure that it will be needed
with everything installed you need to turn up the volume/bass about 3/4 of the way up and turn on a couple accessories like the AC and the headlights at the same time, if your headlight are dimming you will need to upgrade the cars charging system

if you are having charging issues you need to do these things in order until its solved
1st-- do the big3 (upgrade the cars stock wiring- ground battery alternator)
2nd--upgrade to a high output alternator
3rd--add High Current Car Audio Power Cell- here are some http://www.sonicelectronix.com/viewcat.p…

capacitors are a waste of time and money"

Acapulco Bill

Your proposed subwoofer is less than 86 dB/1 watt efficiency. If you got a higher efficiency subwoofer (around 92 dB/1 watt) you would need 1/8th the power to get the same SPL volume. Sometimes bigger is not better, as in this case. No speakers other than the subs are on your list, are you going to use the stock MB OEM speakers as your main speakers?

JimPap

Just curious.

Who told you that you need 2 13" subs?

Norm01

I would also look at the difference in power level for your amps. 300w for 4 speakers is 75w each, your sub would have 1000w, in my opinion this is way too much and you will either overpower your speakers or not use anywhere near the capacity of your amp. As also noted, speaker efficiency plays a huge roll. You need to double your power requirements for every 3db of efficiency loss.

dgghostkilla

yeah for right now i dont plan on changing my stock speakers untill i can save up some money.

dgghostkilla

well i had told the guys at this install place that i was used to having two 12's in my last car. however i did not have a trunk and that i wanted to have space on the mercedes. so he suggested this subs because they are 2.5 inch think and would require alot less space.

dgghostkilla

NORM01. can you dumb down what you mean for me.

Acapulco Bill

The Mercedes stock OEM speakers, which someone admitted cost about $1 for all 8 of them, are good up to the 20 watt peaks the Audio 20 unit can provide (that´s 2 watts RMS average). Here are some pictures, just the Infinity crossover shown weighs more than the original woofer and tweeter combined.
It´s your decision, everyone who has responded to this thread as hinted at good advice. Amplifiers don´t make great sound... SPEAKERS make great sound.

AMGfan

I'd trade in 1 TW5 for a set of really good front components. I run one JL TW5 with a JL 1000/1 in the SL. With respect to others, I have always overpowered my speakers. My installer just adjust the gains back...I have blown more speakers from amps that have been pushed to hard (more noise) than with more power (more headroom).

jctevere

He is saying that your door speakers are only using 75w each, or 300w altogether, this means that you will have roughly 700w to split between your two subs if you get a 1000w amplifier. 350w each, which is plenty. But what he is saying is that if you find more efficient subs, you can greatly lower your need for power.

Personally, two 13" subs are overkill, just get a nice decently sized 12" sub and mount it on the left side of the trunk in the area where the H/K sub goes. You will still have virtually all the trunk space, and if they are at least as efficient as those JL subs (which apparently aren't that efficient), it will be just as loud using a lower wattage, or louder at the same wattage. So you can do without a 1000w amp (which only adds 83 amps to stock wiring), and look for a 750w amplifier (which will only add about 63 amps, which should be fine for our alternator, and you will have 450watts for a sub, which is great).

I will have to edit this later, as I kind of rushed to write it and it doesn't really make much sense, haha.

dgghostkilla

Guys thanks. this is a learning experience for me.

well the bad news is that all the equipment i mention above has already been purchased. However the two amps (Jl 1000/1/v2 and the Jl slash 300/4v2) were both purchased together at ebay for a total price of $604.00

To be honest I really do want to get new front speakers the same day during the install. I know i can get my $430.00 back by re-selling the JL 1000/1 v2 amp on ebay, after all a new one retails for like 1100 bucks.

the plan is to drop off the car tomm at the install place once the rest of the stuff arrives tomm by mail.

The only reason why i had picked the 13tw5 was because they were real thin.

so now do you guys think i should just get a jl 500/1 to power the sub or subs?

also with the jl 300/4 does that mean that this amp is just going to send too much power to the set of $1.00 dollar speakers that wont be able to handle that much power?

dgghostkilla

also where exactly is the H/k subwoofer on the cars that have it? is in on the left side where I have like a little compartment with a mesh ? the oposite compartment of where the fuse box is located?

Also jctevere, so your saying that the 13tw5 are not that efficient. Can you elaborate on that?

what would be recomended to replace to speakers inside the car? Component speakers vs. woofers and tweeters, or 2-way speakers etc.

Norm01

Your 300/4 amp if I am right is a 4 channel amp is is usually used for the 4 corner speakers (2 fronts + 2 rears). This means each speaker gets 75 watts (300 divided by 4). A 1000/1 amp is a mono amp used for subs, this means the sub gets 1000w. My point is there is a huge discrepancy between 75w and 1000w. It's usual to see at least double or triple the single channel speaker power for an amp, you are more than 11 times the power of a single channel on your sub. To me what will happen is your gain on your sub will be way down and you will not use anywhere near what the amp can deliver to have a balanced system. Less gain, less current flow and therefore really no need for an alternator as your 1000w amp will really act as a 500w or so and draw as much current as your initial calculation. I think a better balanced system would be the 300/4 with a 500/1. BTW, I installed a 500/1 with a JL 10" prowedge added to my HK system which I believe is around 400 pr so watts for something like 12 speakers. My gains are way down, nearly minimum on the 500/1 and the pressure level in the car actually hurts your eardrums. There is a lot to be said also for a properly designed box that matches the sub, to me it's actually the biggest part of the equation. That's why I now choose to buy factory boxed subs, let the engineers figure out the best box size and ports. Hope this helps.

Acapulco Bill

@dgghostkilla: The JL 13TW5 subs (in Crutchfield $570 EACH) are only 86 dB for 1 watt input. Their are others out there (the Polk Audio MM1040 at $170 for instance) that are 91 dB efficient; simply put, thats 4 times the volume for each watt you apply.
As for the MB stock OEM speakers, they can absorb 8 watts continuous RMS each (maybe 40 watts peak) before they head South. The Audio 20 amplifier is perfectly matched for these speakers. The point previously was that with just a speaker change, you can get 100 DB countinous volume with 110 dB peakswith your current Audio 20 amp, just purchasing a pair of Infinity Kappa 60.9 speakers for the front and a pair of Infinity 6032si for the rears, which will set you back $260 and forget about the JL 300/4v2. A woofer of choice would be the Infinity 120.9w, also 91dB for 1 watt input and cost $200 each at Crutchfield, and are good, they say, for 1400 watt peaks.

dgghostkilla

Norm thanks for the info.

so i have a few more questions. with my Jl 1000/1 which is a mono. if i keep the gain levels down it will draw less power right? i mean i only paid $430 for the amp. a brand new jl 500/1 woulda cost me anywhere betweet 480 to 550 depends where i bought it. So i don't really care if i dont use all the power the amp was intended for as long as my alternator would be fine.

The Jl 300/4 yeah its a 4 channel amp. It would be to power the 2 front and 2 back speakers.

Originally when i went to stereo company and i told them what i wanted, they suggested

****Jl 500/1/v2***
Jl slash 300/4v2
2 JL Audio 13TW5-3 13.5" subs
JL AUDIO CL-SSI CLEANSWEEP
JL Audio CL441DSP CleanSweep

However, i save like 800 bucks by buying the stuff online. the amps i bought used on ebay.
when i found the JL 1000 for 410 plus shipping i figured well why not buy this one which is more powerful than the jl 500/1 and i would still save like 100 buck on this amp alone.

once i did more research i began to worry about possibly putting too much strain on the alternator which is why i made this thread.

after reading all your comments this is the way i see it so just tell me where im wrong.

so yeah the JL 1000 1 consumes alot of power 83 or so amps. but if i keep the gains low it will consume less or maybe about the same as a jl 500 or any other 500 watt sub no? it makes sense in my head but then again i dont really know much about this subject.

about the box for the subwoofers, the guy from the store seemed like he knew what he was saying. The guy assured me that the box weather for 1 or 2 subs will be built to JL specs for that subwoofer model.

this is the link for the place where i will be taking my car. Its one the very few reputable places i've found in my area. which is outside of philadelphia.

http://www.wwstereo.com/mobile/

Acapulco Bill

To get 118 dB out of a single JL Audio 13TW5-3 13.5" sub requires 2040 watts from the amp. Far more than this woofer can handle. How loud do you want to play this thing?

dgghostkilla

Acapulco Bill i just read your post. So from your point of view I dont really need an amp to power my 4 (front and rear ) speakers? so if i bought the speakers that you suggested, the stock amp thats already will have the power to power the aftermarket speakers?

as for the subwoofers i bought them for $347.00 each. like i had said before the install place suggested this subs after i told them that i just wanted some subs that were going to give me room in my trunk. he they said thay this were the best subs in the market that were only 2.5 inches and that because they were shallow mounted that i would need a much thinner box.

whats your take on this. so were in my place. excatly what would you have installed?
this is what i bought, which all of it will be arriving tomm. im sure i would not have a problem selling the jl1000v1 for $430.00 back on ebay. other stuff could be return at little to no restocking fee. i would have to check.


Jl 1000/1/v2
Jl slash 300/4v2
2 JL Audio 13TW5-3 13.5" subs
JL AUDIO CL-SSI CLEANSWEEP
JL Audio CL441DSP CleanSweep

i dont really care what i get as long as it sounds good.
in my old car i have 2 12 subs. it wasnt nothing fancy but i liked how the bass sounded. but i had a big box and therefore not really much of a trunk.

i would like to have bass along with good quality sound up front.

dgghostkilla

ok on my jetta i had two subs simmilar to this. maybe the older version since i've had them for like 4 years. and i had them in an enclosed box with a kenwood amp KAC-91)3D


http://www.crutchfield.com/p_113W301...12.html?tp=111
http://www.crutchfield.com/S-3h0jehZ...KAC-9103D.html

Acapulco Bill

Its a question of balance. Since you already are there with the amps (and how close to Phila. are you? My hometown.), and you have the subs, maybe go by stages and just put the sub and the JL 1000/1/vw amp in FIRST, and see if the stock speakers and Audio 20 amp, are up to the job you expect. The SECOND stage would be to upgrade the interior speakers. If this still leaves you short in the volume department, then LAST the JL 300/4v2, as this would be the most difficult part to integrate into your C300.

Norm01

Since you already have the equipment, go ahead and install it. You are correct about current draw and keeping your gains down, the stereo shop will adjust these for you. Bill brings up a good point about the Infinity's, they are awesome speakers especially the Kappa range. Here is what I would do, buy front and rear speakers as per Bill's recommendations, install the 2 amps you have with the 2 subs you have. You'll have an awesome system.

dgghostkilla

i live in telford, which is in montgomery county, its 35-45 minute drive to philly.

Guys thanks for all the input

Acapulco Bill

Yeah, no more train to Telford. Used to go from Bethlehem to Philly three times a week, when I didnt drive my highly modified BMW 2002 (2 twin-barrel carbs, ZF trans, Abarth, Konis, Pirellis - this was 1969, eh?), took the train.
Anyway, Norm01 is right, and as a quick calculation with TWO speakers and a mono amp, 128 watts in gets you 110 DB. This will draw about 20 amps for the single JL 1000. Hopefully thats enough. There is a 12 volt 30 amp line to the trunk on the right side behind the rear seat, I think, if you install the amp in the trunk.
This amperage would balance with the maxed out peaks of the Infinity Kappas just from the Audio 20. LEAVE THE CROSSOVER SWITCH for the Kappas at 0 dB (NOT -6 dB). Run the system dead flat with both tone controls at "0" and balance the SUB to the car speakers. And go from there. Good luck.

dgghostkilla

i couldnt find the Infinity Kappa 92.6 you suggested. whats the model?