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Originally Posted by qaz393
(Post 4968260)
there is not transfer case for W204-4matics!!!! i cannot stress this enough times. The transfer gears all all integrated into the transmission sharing the oil with the transmission!!!
Here is a video I found showing the 4m system at work on the w221, check out 1:15, it mentions the integrated transfer case, you were right, my question is what happens to that transfer case on the RWD models, their transmission must have a different part number and must be built without that transfer case right? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZoIc4SyZy2M |
Originally Posted by LandSeaAir
(Post 4968307)
Okay makes sense. So if this is the case, would that mean that W204 4MATICs have different transmissions than the RWD cars? If its all integrated into one unit than you would need a transmission that has a driveline going to the front and rear whereas the RWD cars just have one going to the rear, and again if its all integrated, the whole unit must be different. Its hard for me to understand.
I know this isn't a reliable source but this listing for a W204 trans claims it works for RWD and AWD, how could that be? http://www.ebay.com/itm/722-9-TRANSM...#ht_1251wt_945 I've been look for a 4MATIC system diagram, no luck yet. here is a picture from the GLK sales brocher. looks like its all integrated into the same unit. |
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if you take a look at them manual, the 4matic cars use more fluid than the 2wd cars. this is because the transfer gearing is all integrated into one unit!!!
http://img440.imageshack.us/img440/3701/2010manual.jpg |
Here's a C-Class / GLK Class 4-Matic differential.... Sure looks like it has a drain and filler plug to me!
http://cdn2.worldcarfans.co/2007/12/...06.Mini1L2.jpg ... seen here too! (#3).. but the filler plug looks sealed off in this sketch. https://mbworld.org/forums/attachmen...et-4-matic.jpg |
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And to top it all off, it seems the E-Class for some reason has a separate transfer case, so JC had correct info, just different for the C-class, taken from the MBusa website:
notice bottom left of picture Attachment 380655 |
The transfer case is integral with the transmission. It bolts straight onto the back of the 722.9 in place of the tail shaft. All Benz 4Matic systems are modifications of the same theme. The E Class & C Class have the same system. Propshafts are different.
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Originally Posted by MBRedux
(Post 4968336)
Here's a C-Class / GLK Class 4-Matic transfer case.... Sure looks like it has a drain and filler plug to me!
http://cdn2.worldcarfans.co/2007/12/...06.Mini1L2.jpg ... seen here too! (#3).. but the filler plug looks sealed off in this sketch. https://mbworld.org/forums/attachmen...et-4-matic.jpg |
Originally Posted by qaz393
(Post 4968351)
thats not a transfer case. its a differential. y u guys no understand?
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lets not talk about the e-class. the w212 should be the same, but keep that in e-class forums please. people here are getting confused........
in the end, no transfer case like the older 4matic for the W204. front and rear differentials need different gear oil (85w-90) |
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Originally Posted by Glyn M Ruck
(Post 4968340)
Of course the transfer case is integral with the transmission. It bolts staraight onto the back of the 722.9 in place of the tail shaft. All Benz 4Matic systems are modifications of the same theme. The E Class & C Class have the same system. Propshafts are different.
5 speed C Class Transfer Case: https://mbworld.org/forums/attachmen...1&d=1324339144 5 speed E Class Transfer Case: https://mbworld.org/forums/attachmen...1&d=1324339144 |
so i think the important question here is
does the w204 transmission fluid flow through the transfer case too or is it a separate loop? |
The transmission fluid is common sump. There is no seal between transmission & transfer case.
Edit - This appears to apply to W204/W212 I can't identify if this applies from certain VIN numbers. Benz has done a number of running upgrades on the 4Matic system. LandSeaAir - What E Class was that you posted for above? W203/W211 have a level plug at the rear but no drain & show a seal & run on transmission fluid. Now I intend investigating whether any service has ever been recommended on W203/211 4 Matics. Both new and old have magnets in the base of the housing. |
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And this must be why the 4MATIC engine requires 7.4 quarts of oil while the RWD takes 8.5, always wondered how a awd system could effect engine oil capacity, I learned a lot from this thread!
Attachment 380654 |
Originally Posted by LandSeaAir
(Post 4968410)
And this must be why the 4MATIC engine requires 7.4 quarts of oil while the RWD takes 8.5, always wondered how a awd system could effect engine oil capacity, I learned a lot from this thread!
http://i1104.photobucket.com/albums/...09/4-Matic.jpg |
Originally Posted by Glyn M Ruck
(Post 4968395)
The transmission fluid is common sump. There is no seal between transmission & transfer case.
Edit - This appears to apply to W204/W212 I can't identify if this applies from certain VIN numbers. Benz has done a number of running upgrades on the 4Matic system. LandSeaAir - What E Class was that you posted for above? W203/W211 have a level plug at the rear but no drain & show a seal & run on transmission fluid. Now I intend investigating whether any service has ever been recommended on W203/211 4 Matics. I don't think I have seen any for 203. Both new and old have magnets in the base of the housing.
Originally Posted by LandSeaAir
(Post 4968410)
And this must be why the 4MATIC engine requires 7.4 quarts of oil while the RWD takes 8.5, always wondered how a awd system could effect engine oil capacity, I learned a lot from this thread!
http://i1104.photobucket.com/albums/...09/4-Matic.jpg |
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Indeed - Look what I found and I'm pleased I did. With the 5 Speed 4matic the transfer case took gear oil. This applies to W203 & W211. W204 4Matics were a running change to 7 speed - Yes? That is why the EPC is confusing. The above diagrams I have posted are for 5 Speed 4Matics.
Here is oil drain method for 5 speed 4Matics. |
Originally Posted by Glyn M Ruck
(Post 4968540)
Indeed - Look what I found and I'm pleased I did. With the 5 Speed 4matic the transfer case took gear oil. This applies to W203 & W211. W204 4Matics were a running change to 7 speed - Yes? That is why the EPC is confusing. The above diagrams I have posted are for 5 Speed 4Matics.
Here is oil drain method for 5 speed 4Matics. |
Thanks guys. It's been some useful research. The W204 4Matics were never built in RHD so I have limited knowledge of them.
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Originally Posted by Glyn M Ruck
(Post 4968632)
Thanks guys. It's been some useful research. The W204 4Matics were never built in RHD so I have limited knowledge of them.
just looked on japan site. they offer 4matic but in LHD form. never knew 4matix is so exclusivly for LHD markets..... |
No RHD 4Matics built.
I've had my say here. If you want any more go look it up yourself. |
Originally Posted by qaz393
(Post 4968487)
i believe only the W211 with V8 AND 7Gtronic AND 4matic (e500/e550). the other W211 used a 5 speed with a 4matic and that required a separate transfer case oil.
has been mention before. you can still drain it but you might or might not get all of it out. |
Originally Posted by Glyn M Ruck
(Post 4968669)
No RHD 4Matics built.
I've had my say here. If you want any more go look it up yourself. |
Originally Posted by MBRedux
(Post 4968672)
Actually the driveshaft doesn't go through the sump... it goes under it... there's a a channel under the sump where it goes through.... thus it decreases the capacity of the sump in AWD 4-Matics... this was widely discussed in the GLK forum.
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Originally Posted by qaz393
(Post 4968671)
where can i find??? what about the ML/R/GL??
When you learn some manners you will find me highly cooperative. |
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