C300Sport

I enjoy my manual C300 but when it comes time to trade her in, it seems MB has forsaken me and other manual enthusiasts. I was thinking BMW may be my only bastion of hope but it looks like Cadillac may be in the game. Haven't owned an american make since the 80s but you never know.

Thought this was a pretty cool clip;

http://www.autoweek.com/article/2012...WS01/120719850

LILBENZ230

The ATS is a pretty good looking car, but I'd still go with BMW. I just can't bring myself to buy domestic. I guess I haven't forgiven them for insulting us for so long with crap like the late 90s Taurus and Cavalier and Neon.

Sportstick

We're having the very same thoughts!

There were some quality horror vehicles in the history of BMW and MB, as some of the veterans here can recall. If the ATS turns out to be preferable in some way, how would grudges and prejudice be helpful to you??

LILBENZ230

They're not. And yep I remember the days of the early W203/210/220/etc back a decade ago.

Sportstick

I'm headed off to a local BMW invitation event this afternoon to drive a 6 speed 328i (if the rain holds off). I will postpone any decisions until the first ATS cars show up. If a few of us can go out and do these comparisons, it would make for an interesting thread later on!

LILBENZ230

I definitely want to hear your impressions of the 328i 6MT.

Doanster

I received an invite from the local BMW dealership for an event as well, but decided not to attend since I'm only 3yrs into my C. Don't want to be tempted.

Not sure if I would ever allow myself to even test drive a Caddy. Old habits/thoughts are hard to break...

Sportstick

I'm back. What a failure. Despite their assurances that a 6 speed would be available to drive, on arrival they said the entire program of vehicles across the country for these events are 100% automatic trans. They were sincerely sorry for the confusion but the dealership personnel were surprisingly defensive and resolute that most people want an automatic. That may be true, but from the "Ultimate Driving Machine" salesforce? Did I stumble into an old Mercury dealership? Whatever happened to brand identity? Aside from the travelling fleet, the dealer also did not have a single stick in stock.

I have to rethink this whole BMW thing. The engineering may be great, the mag reviews are very strong, and my son is enjoying the one he recently leased. But, the brand may be following MB appealing to those on the downside of enjoying the actual driving experience and focusing on design/status/comfort, etc. Certainly, the current 5 and 7 series have been indicted on those counts, but for the company to treat the 3 this way with their marketing strategy?!?! At 58, I'm nowhere near ready to drive "old man's cars".....what a disappointment...

Oh, well. I have no hesitation about exploring the ATS. From having been in the business for a few decades, I've realized that anyone can design anything, given the desire, resources, and skill. If the ATS car is the real thing, there is no good reason not to have it on the list. if I like it, I don't care what the neighbors or the guy in the next lane thinks.

C300Kid

My generation (twenty-somethings) has a very positive perception of Cadillac, so you'll come off as young and cool in an ATS. Your generation may not be as impressed, but who cares.

Sportstick

Exactly! Great comment...it's of no importance what anyone else thinks about a car we have as long as we are pleased with our own decision. Great wisdom at a young age.

Sportstick

Try to find the new July 23rd edition of Autoweek. Here is one sentence from their first road test:

"There's Audi/BMW/Mercedes-Benz grade engineering to the ATS' core - world class, no qualifiers."

There are some interesting comparisons between ATS and the Germans brands, and yes, we all realize the others are existing cars and this is new, so no need to protest about "fairness".

LILBENZ230

I'm in my 20s.. Again, though, I admit it is my problem and not Cadillac's. The CTS-V is no doubt very good, but I dislike the design theme and really hate the interior. Though I do give them props for offering a real transmission in a car of that caliber. Let's see Mercedes put a 6-speed in the E63! It isn't going to happen and that's a shame, really. Sure, an automatic might be "better" - it might shift faster, etc - but there is simply no substitute for rowing your own gears when it comes to just being plain fun. Not even the best automatic makes up for it.

I noticed the manual transmission thing back in 2009 when there was no 1-series anywhere in greater Atlanta with a 6-speed manual. Had to have one shipped in from NC. Who'd buy a 135i in an automatic, I wondered.

Sportstick, I don't know if that is maybe too small for your needs or whatever but if you've never driven a 135i manual you should try it out. It's a blast!

LandSeaAir

Sportstick- Have you ever considered a Porsche Boxster or Cayman? those cars have great 6 speeds and they're obviously very easy to find in manuals. Plus they're mid engined (probably the best "Ultimate Driving Machine" for the money imo) and you could probably pick up a one year old one for less than the price of a new 3, C or ATS. Porsche looks like a brand that appreciates the manual transmission and will always offer it (hopefully). You already got the E class sedan for comfort, why not try a sports coupe or a roadster, just a thought.

And I do hope the ATS is successful, I want to see nothing more than our American car companies succeed and the closed down cadillac dealers around me to reopen. In the last decade I think the only Cadillac respected and positively looked at by the younger generation has been the Escalade, and the ATS looks good enough to join it in holding that title.

Sportstick

I've shopped Porsche, but never quite bonded to the concept. Yes, we have an E, but in reality, it's my wife's daily driver. The Jeep smells of dog, has its rear seats covered in vinyl to carry them, and mostly otherwise carries groceries or does errands in less-than-engine-warm-up distance. So, my car needs to be more versatile for my everyday use when I'm out and about. I guess I want it all, and imprinted the concept of "sports sedan" after my first 3 series many years ago. The ease of putting stuff through a rear door, and having some reasonable trunk cargo space are ongoing needs. I wouldn't even seriously consider a C or 3 coupe...too inconvenient. Also, being 6'2" (lots of femur!), I enjoy the space. I felt a bit claustrophobic in the new 911 I tried about two weeks ago.

So, ATS, 3 series (yeah....still), the new 1 series sedan coming next year, maybe the CLA if MBUSA offers a stick...there are choices which would work. But, I am a bit shocked at putting a Cadillac on my list. I never thought I would live to see that! On the other hand, got to give them respect for what they seem to be accomplishing!

C300Kid

That's where I'm going next!

RLE

W210s rust and the front spring perches break off.
Early W211s had endless electronic and memory problems, sort of automotive Alzheimers.

So hard to choose...

Then there were 123s and 201s...yikes.

LILBENZ230

http://www.insideline.com/cadillac/a...full-test.html

So no manual transmission with the 321hp V6. The 272-hp turbo-4 has "no real punch" and the manual - only available with the turbo-4- is clunky with long throws.

It is a good looking little car but they should be offering the manual with the V6.

C300Sport

Well, I guess it will feel pretty close to what we have now.

Of course my shift quality improved 100% when I got my new tranny installed...having syncros that actually work seems to make a big difference.

C300Kid

Exactly. The 272hp ATS will certainly have more punch than our C300s, and the manual is almost guaranteed to have shorter throws than we have now lol.

fattysnax

Has anyone driven this GM 4-cyl turbo before in some other form?

Wonder how it sounds and whether there is decent aftermarket support

C300Kid

It's a new engine, the closest relative is probably the turbo4 in the Regal GS which I have not driven.

Sportstick

Likely so. I think we need to wait and read several writers' impressions and have a meta-review.

Domm

Speaking of the ATS, AutoGuide just uploaded a video on the 2013 ATS:

K-A

Gotta say I'm nicely surprised and almost shocked at the ATS. Yes, a little bland in that "generic GM way" where it looks as if a Caddy badge could have been put on a Malibu.... BUT....

This time it actually seems done right. It does feel to earn that Caddy identity for the most part, and aside from that foolish upwards line on the C-Pillar, the sheetmetal and proportions look clean and concise, athletic and proper, and is maybe the best looking Caddy I've seen since their heyday models decades upon decades ago.