shortcut

At the advice of several on the forum, I selected the Infinity Kappa series speakers that everybody has spoken so highly of. I took them to a professional audio shop to have the install performed. I took the PDF how-to and printed out other pertinent instructions from this forum to help.

When I got back in the car, the sound was absolutely awful with virtually no mid-range or bass whatsoever. I was hoping that the problem was simply due to the parametric equalizer settings, so when I got home I set them to those suggested. While this helped a little bit, it certainly didn't deliver sound that anyone here would be happy with.

I looked through the empty boxes, and found that the installed had not used the crossovers that came with the front speakers. Now would be a great time to disclose the fact that I know nothing about car audio, but I called him immediately. He told me that the speakers were plug and play and that the factory crossovers would perform exactly as the ones included with the speakers. From what I understand, and I apologize if I'm a complete idiot, the only factory crossover is a small filter on the back of the stock tweeter.

For the installer's credit, he is willing to go in and install them to the guidelines posted by "ICON10" (I believe this is the correct user name). However, he warns me that they are not going to make much of a difference.

Please someone confirm that after the crossovers are installed, that I will be happy with the sound. At this point, it is certainly not an improvement and is much worse than the stock speakers. I just drove 400 miles and ended up listening to my IPOD through headphones because it was so annoying. Now I'm putting the car in the garage where it will sit until I can take it back to the installer on Tuesday. Guess it's back to my Ford Explorer for now

I'm just hoping that this is the issue, but could it be something else? I have a 2010 C300 with the audio 20 system.

AkaSigFreak

Just the fact that you had to bring the installer the How To worries me. The signal from the headunit is full-range and definitely needs the crossover. I would also make sure there is a good seal between the driver and the door. The Infinity Kappas are great and you should be very happy when installed correctly.

moerbeck

if the sound system sounded ok before you installed the speakers, then we have a couple of things to check.

The crossover will have some effect on the sound as they isolate specific frequencies to be delivered by the mid-range speaker or the tweeter. There are two things I feel could have gone wrong:

- He connected the speakers with the phases inverted (positive on negative and vice versa) that would cause the woofer the vibrate invertedly and it will definitely sound crappy.

- You have an air leak around the woofer so the baffle is not correct for the speaker. This is unlikely if the installation looks tidy - albeit wrong.

INMHO, if you are not going to go the extra mile and replace the amp, subwoofer, etc... meaning a complete custom install, then just replacing the speakers should be done when they are blown. A new speaker only improves reproduction slightly if the source and amplification are the same. SPecially on a mercedes where the OEM speakers are actually very good.

I would not return to the original show. Look for a shop that has MECP certification. The shops that employ MECP people really do superior work to everybody else. I hope it helps.

Scat01

Moerbeck, in this particular application, upgrading to these speakers (properly installed) is like night and day, and the OEM Audio 20 speakers are complete trash, there are many very good threads about this if you search.

Anyway, to the OP, yes your installer took a very critical "shortcut" by not installing the massive crossovers that come with the Kappa's - did he also skip adding the Kappa tweeters while he was at it?

Stop payment if paid by credit card....take it back and make him do it right. Or, since he is so lame find an installer who can do it right and chalk it up as a lesson learned.

I did this upgrade as have many - it is almost unexplainable how fantastic these speakers can perform with the stock audio 20 system unchanged - you will be blown away once corrected - Lou Ferigno can hear the difference it is so damn clear, good luck!

moerbeck

I thought he had the Harman Kardon speakers since those are not so bad. I saw a picture of the 20 type speakers and yes you are right. They are trash. I am a huge fan of MB quart speakers and back in the day when I competed on IASCA (does that event exist anymore ) my system had MB quart components installed on the kick panels. Those speakers were awesome. The Kappas have been excellent for a long time and I am not aware of fitment issues since I haven't done the install myself.

I completely agree with you on the installer... if he didn't install the tweeter than that might be why it sounds so awful. I presume the OEM speakers are full range and if didn't install the tweeter, than we are in real trouble hehehe.

Anyways, any decent installer - even someone at Best Buy, could have done a better job here. Swapping speakers on the factory location is one of the most common jobs in the Mobile electronics industry. If the guy botched a simple job, forget it. he is worthless.

Good luck! Good to know there is a lot o great knowledge here on the forum about electronics as well.

AkaSigFreak

The Audio20 has a component set in the front and a coaxial in the rear. I competed in Iasca events too and had MB Quart Q Series (when they were actually made in Germany). I have the tweeters mounted in the stock A-pillar location and they made a huge difference in sound quality. I have no idea why I never installed the 6 1/2" drivers and crossovers in the doors. They are absolutely amazing. I have the Infinity Basslink installed in the trunk and that does help with the low end extension, but is a weak comparison to my old system.

moerbeck

I am about to pick up my C250, so I haven't seen what is installed on it. If you have the Harman Kardon package as part of P1. What is that composed of? Premium speakers, amp, etc?

Have you ever seen a diagram of what is installed? Does it have an amp and a subwoofer or is it just the head unit powering up the speakers? Sorry for hijacking the thread, but I heard the original sound and it lacks bottom and high end clarity (even with the HK upgrade).

Furthermore, are the speakers who are a direct swap with the OEM ones? I saw a thread where somebody uninstalled the rear speakers and it looked like there is a lot of cutting going on which is NEVER the way to go.

I would probably add a good amp (miss my precision power amp) and a sub (underneath the seats maybe).

Let's see when I get the car. I want to get the video Aux connected and maybe get the internet to work on the command monitor. Have you done any of these mods?

Doanster

Which Kappa series are people using? I thought I searched for the set ICON used, but they were old/discontinued. Thanks.

Scat01

Infinity Kappa 60.9cs components for the front, Infinity Kappa 62.9i in the rear.

Not sure if this link will work, if not, search "w204 third party speaker upgrade" using the search function above.

Read more: https://mbworld.org/forums/c-class-w...#ixzz2IZUBEKf8

4rvrDarwin

http://mercedes.harmankardon.com/en/...technical.aspx

moerbeck

Thanks a million Darwin. The subwoofer seems very complex to upgrade and I cannot find a drop-in subwoofer to the spare compartment.

I may end up deleting the sub and using a Kicker hideaway underneath the passenger seat. Let's see when I actually get the car which sould be tomorrow.

4rvrDarwin

You are welcome. HK subwoofer is small indeed. But overall, HK systems seems surprisingly sophisticated. 12 speakers is decent too.

RVC

just a little info from my install on my 2011 C300. The fronts were easy, installed exactly as the instructions stated, but the rears on my car were NOT co-axial they were exactly the same as what were in the front doors. Therefore, the mounting rings did not fit in the stock MB speaker housing because they were too big (from the 62.9i). I had to remove the sotck speaker mount and take a sawsall to the inner door panels to make them fit. Furthermore, I had to cut the mounting rings in hald and remove about 1/2" of the material then use foam and 3M 2 sided tape and nuts and bolts to affix the modified Kappa rings to the door panel. Once I did that the speakers mounted to the rings and they sound great with no rattles suprisingly...after the hack job I had to do. Has anyone else had the same crappy speakers in the rear doors as the front? The part numbers (front and rear) were identical and the 62.9i were much larger than my stock rears.

4rvrDarwin

Don't you guys get it? The HK systems is ACCOUSTICALY CALIBRATED to a particular body type of the C class. Same as the all new A/V receivers that come with Audyssey or other similar acoustic calibration software. If you replace original speakers with better ones, the result will almost CERTAINLY be worse because "old speakers + acoustic calibration" will perform better than "new speakers + NO acoustic calibration"!!!

http://www.audyssey.com/audio-techno...lteq-solutions

RVC

I didn't say anything about the HK system. I was just simply stating what happned to me during my install. I just had a loaner with the HK system in it and it sounded great to me, very loud and clear. But I can tell you that my Audio20 sounds WAY better, clearer, and a little louder than with the stock MB Audio20 speakers. There is just no comparing them.

4rvrDarwin

I see. Louder is irrelevant here because it's a matter of speakers resistance. As to "better" and "clearer", that very well may be. I am not sure about acoustic calibration of stock system.

But in and of itself, #1 item that improves audio quality is a proper acoustic calibration, followed by better speakers.

UCSD_C350

Did you install the Kappa coaxials or components?
Did you add an amplifier or just switch your stocks for aftermarkets?

If you bought coaxials, you are gonna have much less mid-bass from your door speakers because they have that tweeter in the center as opposed to the stock door speaker which is a woofer I believe.

Also, if you haven't done so already, I would recommend getting a good quality voice amplifier for your door speakers whether they are components or coaxials because the factory speakers require much less power than aftermarket speakers. As a result, aftermarket speakers hooked up straight to the factory amplifier will not perform to their potential simply because they are under powered.

Acapulco Bill

@shortcut: Sorry I didnt see this in January. Installer is not well informed (one shouldnt use the word "idiot"). Crossovers ARE needed, hope the installation eventually was corrected. As AkaSigFreak states, the Kappas are highly efficient and play 6 dB louder than stock, besides the huge improvement in sound quality.

YoussefAbe

I didn't read much of the post besides the OP.

This is my experience of doing an "installation" myself.

This was on the Acura Tsx, my car prior to the w204, i first purchased a model of kenwood speakers, at that time they were the highest model available. I decided to install them, and the installation had went flawless, however i was lazy that day and didnt install the tweeters nor the crossover and utilized the factory.

on the drive home, sounded exactly like how you said. I used headphones for the following weeks until i had a day off and change my set up.

Then i installed the tweeters & crossovers, sounded very clear - however NO bass whats so ever. that didn't make me fully content because i listen to a lot of music that requires low end notes.

so i decided to buy a subwoofer with an amplifier - sounded great. however the front/rear speakers were so underpowered so when i cranked it up i would hear more bass than voice.

so i redid my whole system, got a 4 channel amp & a 2 channel amp. re wired everything properly and it sounded amazing.

My whole story, speakers provide you mid & highs. you should barley get lows from them, invest in a full amplifier for both subwoofer & speakers and you will enjoy the sound quailty more then the factory benz.

hope it helped a bit.

Logic10

The following is from a Mercedes Benz article describing the Logic 7 audio system:
"The amplifier is equipped with a digital signal processor (DSP), which controls the frequency response of all speakers with its high processing power to deliver a harmonious sound experience."

So, the original speakers are actively cross-overed. Further, the system is acoustically designed for the particular vehicle. The interior of a car is a harsh environment, the distance between each speaker and the driver's head varies so this has to be compensated for, there are objects that interfere in the sound and will absorb certain frequencies and that will vary from speaker to speaker. That too needs to be addressed. Using the DSP and driving each speaker exactly, enables all of the foregoing to be compensated for to produce a decent sound.

Now if you throw in different drivers, their electrical parameters will not match those of the originals and hence their performance may differ markedly from the originals, and actually could sound worse. Normally in such a system you wouldn't need passive xovers since the DSP is limiting frequencies sent to the drivers, but with different electrical characteristics who knows what the sound outcome will be like-maybe passive xovers will help.

Bottom line, sound systems have advanced and the days of simply dropping in better drivers and passive xovers and getting guaranteed better sound doesn't exist anymore. Assuming, the installer has done his job right - proper sealing, no reverse phase wiring, you may or may not get better sound.

Acapulco Bill

Original OP was discussing replacing MB OEM speakers and clearly states the stock Audio20 headunit. The stock "xover" is a 10 uF non-polarzed cap stuck onto the back of the tiny hard-dome tweeter. Installer would definitely have to use the included Kappa Xovers, which are a truly spectacular piece of audio engineering.

While the comments about the H-K system are interesting, they're not applicable to the OP's situation.