Knightmare69

Finally got the car on the dyno.
2010 C200 CGI, TMC Tuning Box, Modified BMS Intake, Straight pipe from the cat back to a single muffler, Sun Auto Voltage Stabilizer + Grounding Kit, Shell Ultra 5w40 oil, Shell V-Power Nitro gas (I think it's 98 ron grade).

We had to run the car in sport mode even in dyno mode as "C" caused the car to shift at 5xxx rpm's, in "s" mode the car was able to rev to about 6500 rpms.

Tq curves at top and hp curves under.

Red figures are when we were calibrating the dyno and car

Green is the TMC box on "0" setting which is suppose to be like stock. Only reason we did this is because TMC didn't include the bypass plug for the harness for when you unplug the box.

Pink is on the TMC preset of "6"

Blue is on setting of "7"

I ended up keeping the setting at "6" after seeing the tq curve on "7" which frightened me, also note that the hp on the "0" setting is greater but the tq comes later which is why I opted to lose a few hp in return for an earlier tq curve.

There is a video but after reviewing it saw no point in posting it as it doesn't show anything worth watching. Just the car on the dyno. The data is more relevant.

Here is the advertised gains from TMC
http://www.tmcmotorsport.com/TuningB...px?s=903385247

Original Tuned Gains
KW 135 169 + 34
BHP 183 230 + 47
NM 270 311 + 41

Factoring in drivetrain loss from the auto tranny (0.20), my hp figures are lower than advertised.

Utahkompressor

I'm not familiar with TMC tuning box. Is it a piggyback? Can you show us some pics? 5G-tronic or 7G-tronic?

But, 230hp is quite a bit of improvement for c200. Keep it up!

Knightmare69

Yes, it's a piggyback connecting to 4 different sensors in the car, you can see what the kit looks like in the link I provided in my OP. My car is a 5g.

kevink2

If pink is upgrade and green oem, there is no significant hp change. And the lower end curves don't suggest a torque increase.

I'd say you have a big problem with TMC.

by 20% efficiency loos with the automatic, I can see that for the 5 speed, but not the 7 speed, as TC slip is limited.

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Knightmare69

I'm not too sure about the hp increase as I mentioned we had to run the box on "0" setting which is supposed to be similar to stock but not actually stock since I didn't have the bypass plug.

As for the tq curve, the upgraded setting allows for the tq to come on earlier as well as increase from the stock figures no? "6" (pink) peaks at 240 lbs/tq.

OEM specs for 2010 C200

http://www.parts-specs.com/Mercedes-...r-sedan-056830

xXHotelCrazyXx

Looks like it needs more work, those fuel curves are all over the place. Should be an even gradient as it climbs to peak power and drops off.

Knightmare69

Pink (6) was the closest to that of all the runs we did. When I saw the curve for Blue (7) it scared the crap out of me so I dialed it back.

xXHotelCrazyXx

Pink is definitely more how they should look.

Knightmare69

Well I emailed the graph to TMC to see what they will say. Given the erratic response rate I've been having with them I'm not sure I'll get a reply. I'll also post it on their FB page if I end up not hearing from them.

kevink2

The pink and green curves imply you did have near stock conditions on the green curve, based on part of the flat low end torque curve, and the boosted pink torque curve.


I can't believe the radical way the torque builds up in the beginning, between the green and pink curves. That's not correct data for the green or blue. The best I can do is look at the green above 3500, vs the full pink, and it looks like they turned up the boost to get a taller, peakier torque curve vs the lower flat plateau from pink.


Basically, your dyno run is messed up at lower end torque, and shows no hp gain.

Finally, you can not compare oem values with a dyno run. Only with and without runs on the same dyno are compareable.

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Knightmare69

I'm not sure what to tell you Kev, I was pretty disappointed with the results but this is how the dyno runs came out.


You lost me here.

kevink2

You should be dissappointed, as it indicates the upgrade did not deliver the hp you paid for.

The chassis dyno run has transmission and other losses, and tries to measure power at the wheels. Only an engine dyno, at near standard conditions, will measure hp & tq to be compared with oem rated values.

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Knightmare69

I am, I'll be posting the results on their fb page later on. Now if only someone could run a dyno with the jb so we could compare.

*edit- looking at it some more, though the bhp is off what they advertised, my tq figures are actually higher if my conversion is correct. 240 ft lbs=325 nm(?) If this is correct then I'm making more than their advertised 311nm.

Ah ok, you were talking bout an engine dyno.

kevink2

JB before after dyno curves, at least they show you the improvemnt, vs telling you. And you can see how they lied about the hp increase, as standard proceedure is to give peak power increase.





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Knightmare69

I'm hoping for an independent dyno with the JB tune. Truthfully I'm not comfortable taking the word of a company that can't even admit their intake might have a design flaw.

kevink2

You deal with what you have. If that ideal data shows up, great!. But this JB data looks real, based on my discussion with them. They were only able to provide lower end boost increases with this limited piggyback.

1) you can see the boost/torqure climb was the same a oem.

2) there was little/no gain in peak hp, so they tried to slide that by with hp gains where the torque gains were, but not peak values.

It's believable, based on reviews by owners.

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Knightmare69

True, I'll remain hopeful that one day some of our members will be more into data. In the end though, these boxes are no replacement for a real tune. Unfortunately for us CGI members, there currently isn't any viable ones ATM.

gel11

I'm new to this and my question might sound stupid, but did you actually have less horsepower with the tuning box on? because the stock had like 178 hp (fly) and the ones with the higher settings were less than that. although the torque seems to have gone up quite a bit. Again sorry if I'm asking something obvious or dumb, I'm new to this and I've been trying to look/shop around for piggybacks for a while now.

Knightmare69

Yes, according to the results I loss hp going from "0" to "6" but gained in tq and when the tq kicks in. I just got a response back from TMC and need to give them some more info so they can see what happened. I'll report back when I have more info.

S212

Hi, I'm new to this forum, but very curious to hear if you made any progress with your TMC box. I'm considering buying it for my E200 CGI but the reviews, actual dyno results and real live experience is hard to find for this tuning box and the M-B CGI -engines.

I have noticed in your first picture in the "cell condition window" that the "mechanical efficiency" is 70.00. I'm not sure exactly what that refers to, but could it be that you are calculating with a 30% drivetrain loss?
The results with the box on the "0" setting also might not be identical as bypassing/running without the tuning box. So your delta might hopefully be better then the graphs indicate. Could you get a reference run with the box bypassed? Have TMC bin able to give you some satisfactory support?

Best regards from Sweden

Knightmare69

Welcome

The last conversation I had with TMC (thanks for reminding me to post this) was that they dyno in the winter and autumn months with cooler air and run 102 octane race fuel plus 3 air conditioned cooler fans at the front. They also explain that they run cars completely stock (which mine is not so to speak, running BMS intake at the time and straight pipe from the stock downpipe to custom rear muffler (I've since gone back to stock box with K&N drop in and waiting on my Eisenmann rear muffler)).

Having said that, in the end TMC noted that not all dyno's are the same nor dyno environments. Also, the air in Hong Kong is usually humid aside from the heat, it is possible that did affect my results. Yes, the data may show that I didn't get the advertised gains but the car performs more powerfully than stock. In the end it does what I need it to do as it's still just a piggyback box but it's one of the better ones out there (in my opinion from my research) than others.

I eventually did get the bypass plug but arranging another dyno appointment has not been high on my list as just getting this session was a headache (few places with dyno's in Hong Kong so they tend to monopolize it with their favored clientele which I am not).

janusgrimnitz

called Kleeman Denmark and they sent me this for their box if anyone is interested.

S212

Thank you!

Yes, according to my research this one of few piggybacks that monitors/controls boost pressure, throttle body, cam shaft and inlet manifold pressure.

Did you notice any change in fuel consumption or acceleration with TMC?

S212

Dose the coupe 180CGI deliver 204 Hp & 314 Nm stock, or is that stage 1 and 2 tuning results? It would be interesting to see the stock dyno chart for comparison.

Knightmare69

I have a lead foot so it's hard to gauge fuel consumption differences, plus I usually fill up with a 1/4 tank left. I get about 400-450km by the time I'm down to a 1/4 tank if that means anything to you.

Yes, acceleration has changed, both in sport and comfort mode.