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Salt Lake City, UT to Old Faithful National Park WY.
...now that I'm back from my trip, I will be again looking for someone to do the stock dyno run on the same stand that I did mine...just so we can show for sure.
However, I do have the attached picture to show some incontravertable proof of performance. The stated mileage for the 2013 MB C300 4matic is 26mpg.
This picture is after driving from my overnight stay in Salt Lake City to the parking lot of Old Faithful in Wyoming. 29.4mpg.
...it actually went up to 30.2mpg when my gf was driving afterwards, though she slowed the average speed to 59mph.
My wife and I averaged 29mpg though just doing a trip down to the Tacoma area and even hit some traffic. Ours is stock.
Yup, I can also easily get 29 to 30 on my stock 2013 C300. My daily commute one way is 1 mile of city >> 12 miles at 60 mph >> 27 miles at 75 mph >> 3 miles of city (mostly on a 55 mph road).
I've had days where I get over 31 mpg on that trip. I have over 64,000 miles on my C300 and routinely get 29 mpg in the summer and about 25-26 mpg in the winter. Last winter we got 144" of snow and the winter before that we had 165 inches. Ya gotta love West Michigan winters and lake effect snow.
I was getting great mileage as well...
The purpose behind my post is in keeping with the topic of the thread. I recently got Kleemann to tune the ECU for my C300 to unlock the power. I posted the pic and note to show that even with the tune, the fuel economy does not suffer.
There was some questions around that much earlier in the thread. As I'm the only one that has gotten the tune done for this engine and is actually posting anything afterwards...I thought it would be my responsibility to provide the answers I can based on the experience I've had.
It's always been a great car...now it's just a little bit more fun...hehe
Genesis drove 13 times longer than you and averaged 4 mph faster. Anyone could get 35mpg on a mountain road or with good wind by resetting the trip at an advantageous time. If you increased your sample, an drove for another 5 hours, you would likely encounter some not so favourable conditions that would lower your mpg.
Just throwing this out there, don't kill the messenger. Here is a picture of the Dyno graph of the ECU tuned c300 and a ecu tuned c350 (a 2006 but same engine model m262). They seem very close.
That's really interesting. I forget that the throttle response benefits from the tune are pretty significant as well. The lag in my C300 is starting to get on my nerves too... All the more reason to tune.
I just got the Kleeman tune a few days ago. Luckily I live in Denver so it was just an hour drive. Anyway I was getting so sick of the throttle lag that I mainly got it done for that. It's like a bullet off the line and when I see that space in traffic where I have to make an instant move I can do it now. The $1300 for that alone for me was worth it but now I've got a lot more power. I don't know how much gain I got but it's considerable. Cory told me he's judging 315 hp by some side by side comparison done by someone back east. Honestly I got lost in his explanation and didn't really care. I'd say if it's not over 300hp it's close. If you can afford it, it's worth it. I'm just waiting for a G37 or an S4 to punch it and then wonder why he's not leaving me in the dust. He'll pull away, but not like he'd expect. I may even stay with the G37.
I just got the Kleeman tune a few days ago. Luckily I live in Denver so it was just an hour drive. Anyway I was getting so sick of the throttle lag that I mainly got it done for that. It's like a bullet off the line and when I see that space in traffic where I have to make an instant move I can do it now. The $1300 for that alone for me was worth it but now I've got a lot more power. I don't know how much gain I got but it's considerable. Cory told me he's judging 315 hp by some side by side comparison done by someone back east. Honestly I got lost in his explanation and didn't really care. I'd say if it's not over 300hp it's close. If you can afford it, it's worth it. I'm just waiting for a G37 or an S4 to punch it and then wonder why he's not leaving me in the dust. He'll pull away, but not like he'd expect. I may even stay with the G37.
Please run against a stock C350 and / or take it to the track and let us know what you trap in the 1/4.
(As for throttle tip in I hate when programmers ramp up the throttle position rather than keep it linear to make the car 'seem' faster. On my C63 the throttle is so sensitive it is much more difficult to modulate the throttle. A nice linear curve is much easier to drive at the limit.)
Definitely interested in seeing the results as my wife thinks her car would benefit from a bit more power
(As for throttle tip in I hate when programmers ramp up the throttle position rather than keep it linear to make the car 'seem' faster. On my C63 the throttle is so sensitive it is much more difficult to modulate the throttle. A nice linear curve is much easier to drive at the limit.)
This in particular is why I'm so skeptical of anything without before and after numbers. Its easy to fool people with throttle map changes. Harder to fool a dyno or timing lights.
This in particular is why I'm so skeptical of anything without before and after numbers. Its easy to fool people with throttle map changes. Harder to fool a dyno or timing lights.
I agree. I just know that it's way more fun to drive. $1300 more fun? That's a close call.
I agree. I just know that it's way more fun to drive. $1300 more fun? That's a close call.
All that is needed would be a before and after dyno of the same car (a few examples of customers perhaps) and this would be a done deal for MANY people.
Not sure why this hasn't been done by Kleeman or EC or anybody else.
The $$$ on 'tuning' has been spent, and these companies would benefit from spending some dyno time on a dyno they own (which costs-> wear and tear and salaries already being paid). Having this proof would reap rewards for these companies.
I would prefer the same purported tunes that yield the power gains but maintaining a linear throttle. If I want to go faster I can push on the go fast pedal.
Creating the illusion of a faster car that is more difficult to drive (where the throttle is no linear) is not a benefit.
Last edited by thesaintusa; 12-14-2015 at 02:44 PM.
All that is needed would be a before and after dyno of the same car (a few examples of customers perhaps) and this would be a done deal for MANY people.
Not sure why this hasn't been done by Kleeman or EC or anybody else.
The $$$ on 'tuning' has be done, and spending some dyno time on a dyno they own (which costs wear and tear and salaries already being paid) would reap rewards for these companies.
I would prefer the same tune but maintaining a linear throttle. If I want to go faster I can push on the go fast pedal.
Creating the illusion of a faster car that is more difficult to drive (where the throttle is no linear) is not a benefit.
With the tune, the throttle response is very linear. In other words I don't feel like it hits a power band at a certain rpm. It pulls evenly to red line. As far as finding an awd dyno I'm just not that concerned about numbers, but you are totally correct that Kleeman should have or have access to an awd dyno. Upon thinking back I remember that before I had the tune it was less linear. It would "come on the pipe" (from my moto-x days) at around 5K rpm it seemed like. Anyway it pulls very evenly now. Hope this helps.
2004 C240 4Matic: 412,479 Miles 2013 C300 4Matic 78.565 Miles
The World is drowning in Big data, But Kleemann has none.
I believe this image is for a M272 Engine. This thread is about the M276 Engine 3.5 Litre.
Again, no definitive data, for 1300.00 is really amazing.
High end cars are among the most sophisticated and complex on the planet today, some of which contain over 100,000,000 lines of code. if you consider that Facebook has half of that at about 50,000,000 lines of code you can draw the simple dots to connect to the reality that the ECU governs performance, fuel efficiency and of course emissions.
Cars are reaching the complexity levels of biological systems in terms of detail and control. This brings everyone reading this benefits they are well aware of, and also allows for well....think about what VW has been found doing recently...yes opportunities for malevolence for your pocketbook and mine.
Soon you may very well be reading about what perhaps Mercedes has been doing to pass here in the United Stated the EPA's series of emission tests to gain acceptance and approval for marketing to the masses.
VW would not have been caught 20 years ago doing this....but today it is another new and different world.
So stay tuned avid readers of the W204 forums.
The same amazing revelations about this threads ECU tuning offering and any substance to its "claims" could very well soon be exposed for its validity.
Soon perhaps we may all discover the data Kleeman doesn't seem to have or is unwilling to produce.
Now isn't that going to be interesting.
Last edited by theoilzone; 09-26-2015 at 11:45 PM.
As you guys know, i've been on Mbworld for awhile; so i'm not one of those fake people. I am getting a Eurocharged ECU tune. i already did a BEFORE dyno (which was 210whp) and i do have picture evidence as well. I will be shipping out the ECU on May 3rd and Dyno again on May 11.
Dyno'd at 210 hp (at 5th gear)which is around 20% drivetrain loss (awd and automatic) so sounds about right. 250-ish hp.
Edit: i got 205 whp on 4th to compare to my after dyno results (which was at 4th and not 5th)
Okay...for better or for worse...here's the charts...
The first is just my car on 91octane, at 3,500ft altitude, and 24c (75f) running pretty cool. I'm only a little ways from the shop and the car sat for about an hour prior to going up on the dyno.
2013 MB C300 w/ Kleemann tuned ECU
While the numbers look stupid low to my un-dyno-educated mind...
Here is a comparison to a stock 2012 Subaru WRX STI...
Tuned ECU vs stock 2012 Subaru WRX STI
My understanding...and I'm still learning here...is that I'm naturally aspirated...aka...not breathing assisted. The Subaru is forced air...they get air shoved in. NA cars are at a disadvantage...and fall off the power faster than a turbo charged car when at altitude.
Also, research shows that Dyno Dynamics habitually rate lower (avg 15% or so) than other dynos...
So the fact that I'm only 8.7whp at the wheels off from a turbocharged 305bhp car...I'm actually pretty damned happy.
When I get a chance tonight, I'll go out and find a lonely road and record some 0-100kph times...
...and maybe show my tail lights to a couple S4's...hehe...
Perfect! The delta from the before and after dyno is all that matters. Not the peak power. I know it disappoints people when they don't see huge numbers but what people really wanna know is, if the tune adds power or not.
I just bought an ISF for myself, so might get the tune if it pans out for the wife's car since now she knows what 400hp feels like
08-01-2015, 06:49 PM
you want $1295?? 
as my wife thinks her car would benefit from a bit more power 
