WhyAskWhy

I don't have his e-mail address. I spoke to him on the phone (719) 473-6441.

Drazil

I thought the whole point of this ECU mod was to unlock those hidden 50HP and increase throttle response so that the car performs just like S mode even while on E.

For those that have the mod, does S mode bump the performance up even further?

I don't know why you'd want to make this change if you have the mod done, it would make it blaringly obvious that the car has been modified. It would be hilarious if someone did this, brought the car in for service, tech notices it starts in S, wonders what's wrong, can't figure it out, so reflashes the ECU.

WhyAskWhy

I could be wrong, especially since I haven't had my ECU tuned yet, but here's my understanding. The main differences between E and S have to do with starting in 2nd vs 1st gear, and transmission shift points. As far as I understand, E vs S is entirely the transmission. Can anyone confirm this?

Also, if I understood correctly, star could set the car to start in S by default (although I'm not sure if that would require developer mode).

If the ECU gets flashed back to stock, Brandon said he would reflash the ECU and just charge shipping. And if I prefer to have my car start in S, the possibility of a tech noticing is not going to dissuade me at all.

The ECU tune increases the throttle body opening maximum to fully open (like the C350), adjusts the ignition timing, and markedly decreases lag. The C300 has the same engine as the C350, but MB artificially limits the degree to which the throttle body can open. Reversing that limitation and adjusting the ignition timing is how they get the extra hp and torque.

edgalang

Assuming the car DID NOT have the "Dynamic Handling Package" then YES.

fahad4890

Did a tune from MPower for my 2009 C350 w204.. BEST DECISION EVER!

Added high flow filters as well.. throttle response is hella better and you can feel it pull really nicely from 2-4 gear. OTD price $650. Tune was $400, filters should have done myself would have saved $80.

WhyAskWhy

Just to clarify (again), this thread is about the M276 engine. Your engine is not the M276.

fahad4890

Sorry, got excited and posted in the wrong one!

cassman34

Just an update... I had the tune done last fall. I still love it! I usually only drive in Eco mode for my daily commute but every once in a while, when merging or pulling on to a road with heavy traffic, I'll put it in sport mode. It is a beast. I have not regretted doing the tune one time. If you are on the fence, I recommend it. Very noticeable difference. Even in Eco, much more responsive throttle.

jimbowmanjr

Curious to know what the net gains are from doing this ECU tune aside from the throttle response. Given how sensitive our transmission is just wondering what, if any, long term impact would result from this change.

Not saying it's a bad idea just wanted to know a bit more.

JaredP

cassman, what sort of difference would you say there is between eco and sport with the tune? With a stock ECU, the only difference is that eco will start in 2nd from a dead stop, and will shift at lower rpms. If you floor it in eco, it will still start in 1st and have all of the power a wide open throttle will give you. Is there more power in Sport with the tune?

cassman34

I can't say there is more power in sport than Eco. I guess it is just that with the added power, starting in 1st makes the difference. I just never floor it in Eco. All I can really say is that the car is completely different with the tune. As I said in my earlier post after the tune, I came from an older infiniti g35 that really had a responsive throttle and gas pedal. Before the tune, I was really bothered by the unresponsive pedal and throttle. In my other car, I could press the pedal about a quarter inch and stay at cruising speed on the highway. In the pretuned c300, it took effort to push on the pedal to maintain speed. Another example is when I would be driving the untuned c300 and would switch back to the old car, I would snap my head back because the g35 pedal and throttle was so much more responsive. Since the tune, I don't have that problem. It really is just a completely different car. I really don't know what else to say.

WhyAskWhy

There's eco (on vs off) and there economy vs sport mode. Eco shuts off the engine when possible to improve fuel economy. Economy mode starts the car in second gear and upshifts earlier compared to sport.

I just got this tune. When the car is in economy, it still starts off in second gear and there is still a little lag before the car gets moving. It's not really throttle lag. The best term I can think of to describe it is gear ratio lag.

When the car is in sport mode, there is minimal throttle lag (and the car starts in first gear). When the car is in economy mode, the lag is much improved and what still exists is likely just due to the gear ratio.

The power output when you floor it is much improved. Mercedes kind of neutered our engines in the stock C300.

My buttometer is not finally calibrated enough to say exactly how much the engine output is improved, but the difference is not subtle. 300+ hp is about right.

JaredP

Yes I did mean economy by eco, which was pretty clear from my explanation of the second gear start. I wonder how much control Kleeman has over power in economy or sport, maybe they could leave economy detuned at 248hp, and sport at 300+hp, if you wanted that for whatever reason.

cassman34

I would agree with your assessment of the difference.

williams1m

Has anyone gotten this tune in the Toronto area? Wondering if there are any local places or at least Ontario-based that do the Kleemann tune to the M276 engine? Thanks in advance!

JaredP

There is a "dealer" in Oakville Ontario, not sure if they have the equipment to do bench flashes. Sounds like most people were shipping their ECUs off to Colorado Springs.

http://www.kleemann.dk/Contact/Deale...0-c969c1116370

EDIT:
Looks like you're in luck.

http://www.oakridgeauto.com/kleemann/

TheRulesLawyer

Is it even worth considering it for a c350? Sounds like very minor gains + throttle response. At least at that price.

edgalang

Minor? I guess it's all relative. Keep in mind however that an ECU tune is the ONLY mod (so far) that'll get you any gains (at least for a face lifted C350). Anything else will require major investment...so much so that it would be foolish to not just get a C63 at that point.

WhyAskWhy

I think this quote from Cory is the most relevant, "We did a tune for a client in, I believe it was NY who told us has both a C350 (stock) and a C300 with our software- he raced them and his C300 wound up being faster- not by a large margin, but it pulled on his stock C350, which suggests our power estimates are accurate."

You're right, very minor gains + throttle response. Only you can decide whether that's worth $1300 to you.

+1

TheRulesLawyer

Right, but its not like they even have a dyno to prove the gains past a c350 yet. A C300 seems like its obvious. We may be talking 10-15hp here for a c350 and introducing issues with the dealer reflashing it and reliability concerns of course. If it were a couple hundred bucks I'd consider it just for the throttle response and more aggressive shift mapping. I never expected the c350 to be a big HP car though. If I wanted that I would have picked something else.

edgalang

Well there are other ECU options as well, Kleeman is not the end all of ECU tunes. Part of the confusion with the Kleeman tune is users claim the peak HP/TQ to be the same for all M276 engines regardless if it's a C300, C350 or E350.

Compare this with other tuners who SPECIFICALLY have different peak values for all 3 (example OE Tuning).

Make MERCEDES BENZ
Model C300 3.5 GDI
Year 2012+
Stock Peak HP 248
Tuned Peak HP 271
Max HP Gain 23
Stock Peak Torque 251
Tuned Peak Torque 274
Max TQ Gain 23
Modification Description Bench Flash


Make MERCEDES BENZ
Model C350 3.5 GDI
Year 2012
Stock Peak HP 302
Tuned Peak HP 325
Max HP Gain 23
Stock Peak Torque 273
Tuned Peak Torque 296
Max TQ Gain 23
Modification Description Bench Flash


Make MERCEDES BENZ
Model E350 3.5 GDI
Year 2012
Stock Peak HP 302
Tuned Peak HP 314
Max HP Gain 12
Stock Peak Torque 273
Tuned Peak Torque 283
Max TQ Gain 10
Modification Description Bench Flash


As for the tune costing a couple hundred bucks...well my tune was just that. I never expected the c350 to be a big HP car either, however depending on the user, cost is relative.

williams1m

These guys do the tune, but they still ship to Colorado Springs. Was quoted the same gains (up to 330HP and similar torque gains as others). 3 day turnaround and about $1,300 USD plus shipping fees.

Drazil

damn, for $1300 you'd think they'd include shipping. If they're giving 3-day turnaround, you can expect to add another $100-200 just for the overnight shipping both ways. Is there some super exclusive tools required to do this flash? I wonder why even their resellers need to ship it in. I'm still surprised nobody has dyno'd this thing yet.

JaredP

Thought someone might be interested in this.

I bought a Bluetooth OBDII scanner, $15 off Amazon.
I did some WOT pulls to see how much the throttle opens. Here's what I got:





So the widest I was able to get the throttle to open on a stock 2013 C300 was 86%. But only very briefly...
Tried this out on my '98 deville and was able to get 100% throttle opening, so I doubt it's just the device.
If one of you with the Kleemann tune has $15 bucks to spare, I'd recommend grabbing one of these. They plug in via OBDII by the hood latch, provide some pretty cool info.

LandSeaAir

This thread is full of new usernames plugging kleeman, especially when skepticism comes about. I think the m276 tune is scam on kleemans part. Niether Cory or any representative has come on here to set any claims, they're all through other users. Theres been at least one true review saying it was a 20hp gain max, which sounds reasonable considering a gain to 320hp would be very noticeable. I also think kleemans claim that they don't have access to an awd dyne is BS. Its soo easy for them to charge a boat load of cash for their copies of ecu software and claiming lofty gains on forums like this is a great catalyst for business. watch out for these guys.